Did Jesus raise hiself from the dead or did God yhe father raise him

[1stCenturyLady]

No, we do not believe that the gifts are still operative...they were given in the first century, but were not continued after the death of the apostles.
Once they had accomplished the purpose for which they were sent, they were withdrawn. Why? Because they served a dual purpose...
1) To show the Jewish people that God had shifted his favour over to the disciples of Christ, (the Messiah that the majority of them rejected...)
2) Each of the gifts was a demonstration of how they would be used when God’s kingdom “comes” to rule the redeemed human race. (Rev 21:2-4)

Along with those reasons, there was something to come in the future that would confuse and deceive many who still wanted to see the miracles.....Paul called this the traits of a spiritual infant.....there were more mature aspects to becoming a “Christian” than seeing supernatural events....”Faith, Hope and love” would be needed to stand strong in the face of the strong opposition that was to come. (1 Cor 13:8-13) A weak faith based on what is seen would not stand.

Another point is that the devil was also going to use his power to deceive people with fake miracles, so as to mislead them. (2 Thess 2:9-12)
If the devil was the only one doing these “signs and wonders” then true Christians would see right through them as weak imitations of what what God’s spirit accomplished in the first century.

I am not deceived, and have lived a supernaturally miraculous life for 46 years when Jesus took away my sins. I actually felt them leave my body. Just this year I asked for the gift of discerning of spirits and received it immediately. I was at church and we had song service and announcements then Pastor Jim started his sermon. Immediately there was a glow developing around his head and shoulders that was bright white. It only happens when he preaches, and I don't see anything around anyone else, nor Jim when he's just giving the announcements. The discernment is about the sermon. I visited another church with a missionary friend of mine and was amazed at what I saw when the pastor changed from greetings to his sermon. Black billowing clouds were coming out of his head and shoulders throughout the whole sermon. I remember he said a lot of jokes during it. But God certainly did not cease one thing from our New Covenant. Knowing that is basically Covenants 101.

I was raised with that cessationist philosophy, but I was soooooo wrong. Jane, its not too late. Become filled with the Holy Spirit right now.

Luke 11:
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for [e]bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am not deceived, and have lived a supernaturally miraculous life for 46 years when Jesus took away my sins. I actually felt them leave my body. Just this year I asked for the gift of discerning of spirits and received it immediately. I was at church and we had song service and announcements then Pastor Jim started his sermon. Immediately there was a glow developing around his head and shoulders that was bright white. It only happens when he preaches, and I don't see anything around anyone else, nor Jim when he's just giving the announcements. The discernment is about the sermon. I visited another church with a missionary friend of mine and was amazed at what I saw when the pastor changed from greetings to his sermon. Black billowing clouds were coming out of his head and shoulders throughout the whole sermon. I remember he said a lot of jokes during it. But God certainly did not cease one thing from our New Covenant. Knowing that is basically Covenants 101.

To be honest, experiences like that would have completely creeped me out....I would not have been able to get out of there quickly enough!.....what “spirits” were you discerning?…and where will I find such things as you describe, in the Bible? I seriously think that is more about demonic activity than anything the holy spirit would produce.....what did it accomplish? Since when does God use his spirit to do useless things? It’s like bleeding statues or weeping paintings.....tricks to fool those who need to see supernatural things that accomplish nothing in reality…..and for those who don’t know what the function of the holy spirit is….

Another thing that I might mention is that the gifts were never used on believers....only on unbelievers, so that it would bring them to Christ....the apostles never used the gifts on themselves or each other. If someone had the gift of tongues, but no one was there to interpret, they were to remain silent. These gifts never benefitted only one person.

The one thing satan cannot do is raise the dead….but he will perform “signs and wonders”…..appearing to be useful. He masquerades as “an angel of light”…..so can you tell the difference?

I was raised with that cessationist philosophy, but I was soooooo wrong. Jane, its not too late. Become filled with the Holy Spirit right now.

I am left hoping that it is not too late for you......the devil is a deceiver....but the deceived do not know that they have swallowed his lies and tricks until it is too late. (1 Cor 10:12)

The holy spirit has guided me these last 50 odd years without any tricks at all. Jehovah has answered my prayers and given me guidance in all my decisions…..none have ended badly. You don’t need miracles to receive the benefit of God’s spirit.

Luke 11:
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for [e]bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

So….what is the holy spirit that we can ask the Father for? What was the holy spirit used for when Jesus walked the earth….what did it do for Jesus, his disciples, and for Jehovah’s pre-Christian servants? What was its function?

God’s spirit is given to those asking for whatever is in accord with his will and purpose…..it’s not for performances, or to benefit only one person, but to empower faith in God and his word to others….as well as an understanding of why we are here, and what our function is in the big scheme of things.

TBH I find most charismatics to be completely deluded. The ‘supernatural’ does not always come from God, and we know that the devil is a mimic and a fraud….so if God withdrew the gifts of the first century, who is left to benefit from “powerful works” but those whom the devil can deceive?

Im sorry, but I cannot believe that your experiences come from God….my red flags are up….

 

[1stCenturyLady]

To be honest, experiences like that would have completely creeped me out....I would not have been able to get out of there quickly enough!.....what “spirits” were you discerning?…and where will I find such things as you describe, in the Bible? I seriously think that is more about demonic activity than anything the holy spirit would produce.....what did it accomplish? Since when does God use his spirit to do useless things? It’s like bleeding statues or weeping paintings.....tricks to fool those who need to see supernatural things that accomplish nothing in reality…..and for those who don’t know what the function of the holy spirit is….

Another thing that I might mention is that the gifts were never used on believers....only on unbelievers, so that it would bring them to Christ....the apostles never used the gifts on themselves or each other. If someone had the gift of tongues, but no one was there to interpret, they were to remain silent. These gifts never benefitted only one person.

The one thing satan cannot do is raise the dead….but he will perform “signs and wonders”…..appearing to be useful. He masquerades as “an angel of light”…..so can you tell the difference?

Hi Jane,
I appreciate your heart. But if I was filled with the devil I would have a desire to sin my head off! I don't. And like you every prayer I've prayed according to the words I hear God say for this purpose has been granted. I've learned over the last 46 years (you beat me, ;) )I never pray for my physical needs but only for others because I only pray for myself what the Father tells me to pray, and I repeat His words exactly and it is granted within seconds. That is according to 1 John 3:21-22, so believe me I don't have demons, I have been used by God to exorcise demons, they don't inhabit me and cannot touch me, 1 John 5:18.

You asked where this gift is found in the Bible. I would say it is according to John 14:12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father." To that pastor with the black billowing clouds I waited an hour and talked with him after church. He needed to know. I did not tell my friends that brought me. It is between him and God to correct. Funny thing, he asked me the same question you just did. LOL And what is even funnier is he used John 14:12, the same verse, in his sermon that very morning!

Satan does counterfeit this gift which has the opposite effect than he means to trip us. Many psychics see auras around anyone they focus on. Do you understand what that means? If he counterfeits a gift of God then God must produce the real thing for us and for a holy purpose. I've narrowed it down to this gift manifesting and judging the sermon and also on someone reading aloud the Bible. In Sunday School our teacher was quoting a passage and she was surrounded with gold.

I know nothing I've said here means anything to you, but I'm very happy that your prayers are answered. For the first 30 years of my life in 2 different denominations not one of my prayers were answered. But after being filled with the Spirit 100% of my prayers have been answered. I hear God's voice so often that I don't think a month or two have gone by without Him speaking to me. Answered prayer is the test that we are believing and doing God's will because we belong to Him. So I can call you sister. I don't share the common belief in many denominations that you MUST believe that Jesus is God as long as you know Jesus as the Son of God and Savior, and are born again of the Spirit. So again I ask you to make sure you are filled with the Spirit of Jehovah God. Romans 8:8-9
"8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." You might someday see and equate the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ as saying the same thing.

I am left hoping that it is not too late for you......the devil is a deceiver....but the deceived do not know that they have swallowed his lies and tricks until it is too late. (1 Cor 10:12)

The holy spirit has guided me these last 50 odd years without any tricks at all. Jehovah has answered my prayers and given me guidance in all my decisions…..none have ended badly. You don’t need miracles to receive the benefit of God’s spirit.

In other words you have never seen a manifestation of any of the gifts of the Spirit in your life? I know I never did in the first 30 years of going to church. But since 1977 it has been non-stop. It was after joining my first Christian forum site in this century that I found out what other denominations believe. Calvinism was by far the worst. Talk about doctrines of demons. That got me thinking. What beliefs of man or demons have I been taught. So I prayed and asked God to wipe my mind clean of all false doctrines and teach me from scratch. Wow!!! It was like my mind exploded. I now know the gospel of the power of God and lost beliefs of holiness. By the way, do you believe in sinlessness. (I'm not referring to what some mock as sinless perfection for perfection has to do with maturity in all the fruit of the Spirit, which takes a long time but can be "finished" in this lifetime if God grants our life to be long.) Sinlessness happens when we are cleansed of all unrighteousness and is at the beginning of being in Christ, and results in no desire to break any of the Commandments of God. Also the word "practice" is not seen in the epistle of 1 John, nor any interlinear I have in my possession. You have more than my two so please look up 1 John 3:9 and see. Can you imagine - "I don't practice murder; but I might slip once in a while." Now, Jane, if you are looking for demons, it is in those doctrines of demons which is the opposite of what God has taught me, and is continuing to teach me! The latest was just last month! John 15:1-4 shows our sinlessness. We are "clean." That is even with immature fruit that Jesus is still pruning. When finished and all the fruit are mature and we are free from lawless sin THAT is when we are holy and perfect and never stumble. That is what I'm shooting for.

So….what is the holy spirit that we can ask the Father for? What was the holy spirit used for when Jesus walked the earth….what did it do for Jesus, his disciples, and for Jehovah’s pre-Christian servants? What was its function?

God’s spirit is given to those asking for whatever is in accord with his will and purpose…..it’s not for performances, or to benefit only one person, but to empower faith in God and his word to others….as well as an understanding of why we are here, and what our function is in the big scheme of things.

TBH I find most charismatics to be completely deluded. The ‘supernatural’ does not always come from God, and we know that the devil is a mimic and a fraud….so if God withdrew the gifts of the first century, who is left to benefit from “powerful works” but those whom the devil can deceive?

Im sorry, but I cannot believe that your experiences come from God….my red flags are up….

Because Jesus was conceived with the Seed of the Father He was tempted in all things, but never sinned. It is the same when we are born again of the Spirit (do you have that doctrine - Born again of the Spirit?) 1 John 3:9 shows we are born again of the same seed of the Father and why we have no desire to sin. The difference between born again Christians and Adam is that Adam was created perfect with a clean human nature and free will, but Satan was too strong for him. We on the other hand cannot be influenced by Satan any longer because of Jesus and the preceeding verse "

1 John 3:8-9
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So I never even feel a reason to think of the devil, except when I have to exorcise a demon or two from a place God sends me. I stand firm in God, but other Christians seem to fear a devil under every rock. They live a very fearful life. I know who I am in Christ, and even have fun with God, and I fear nothing.

 

[Fred J]

But now I know in John 17 He got back all His "glories" that made Him God.

Hi, am F.J., and how may i address you, tq?

It is also clearer in Hebrews 1:3-14, after making purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High. Also GOD the FATHER gives appraisal in regards the Son, including addressing the Son as, God and Lord.

Prior on earth before the ascension, disciple Thomas upon believing declares the Son as, "My Lord and my God."

 

[Fred J]

I looked at all 15 verses and don't see it. You must not know where it is either or you would have given me the verse.

Now, did Jesus answer, teach or explain the meaning of born again to Nicodemus?

 

[Peterlag]

Now, did Jesus answer, teach or explain the meaning of born again to Nicodemus?

So what verse says one must believe Jesus is God to be saved because I don't see that verse in the 15 verses you listed from the Nicodemus record. In fact, there's nothing there that even says how a Christian can be born again.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hi, am F.J., and how may i address you, tq?

It is also clearer in Hebrews 1:3-14, after making purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High. Also GOD the FATHER gives appraisal in regards the Son, including addressing the Son as, God and Lord.

Prior on earth before the ascension, disciple Thomas upon believing declares the Son as, "My Lord and my God."

Some people on the forum just call me Lady.

 

[Fred J]

Some people on the forum just call me Lady.

Thanks my Lady and pleased to meet you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I appreciate your heart. But if I was filled with the devil I would have a desire to sin my head off! I don't.

I appreciate your sincerity as well…..but if you are deceived, you will you have no idea that what you are doing is not from God. The devil masquerades as an “angel of light”, so it will not be obvious that he is at work in a person who believes that the gifts are still operative….deception is his stock in trade. None of the gifts were intended to be permanent since they were performed on unbelievers to draw them to Jesus….if the gifts were still in evidence today, then every hospital would have a faith healer and no one would need to go home and be told to get their affairs in order…..we wouldn’t need doctors or surgeons.

Red flags also go up when I hear people say that God speaks to them…..I do not believe that God speaks audibly to anyone since the days of the apostles. We have the complete written word of God to guide us, so the gifts were no longer necessary. And as I said, the gifts were only for the benefit of unbelievers, never practiced on believers. Paul said that the need to see miracles was the trait of a babe…..a spiritual infant..

After the death of the apostles, a foretold apostasy overtook the Christian faith and corrupted it. What came out of that apostasy was the Roman Catholic church, with its fake miracles and such. But there is no indication that the gifts were seen after the apostles passed away. They were the only ones who could pass them on to others by the laying on of hands.

And like you every prayer I've prayed according to the words I hear God say for this purpose has been granted. I've learned over the last 46 years (you beat me, ;) )I never pray for my physical needs but only for others because I only pray for myself what the Father tells me to pray, and I repeat His words exactly and it is granted within seconds. That is according to 1 John 3:21-22, so believe me I don't have demons, I have been used by God to exorcise demons, they don't inhabit me and cannot touch me, 1 John 5:18.

I cannot tell you that you are in error….only God can do that….but by what you have said, I see only demons pretending to be God, causing you to “see” things that others cannot, and implanting things in your conscious mind that you interpret as God speaking.
I do not believe that he operates like that in our time. If he did, how would people be able to tell the difference between the true and the false “powerful works” that would be in evidence in our day? “Signs and wonders” and “powerful works” are also a sign of satanic activity, (2 Thess 2:9-12; Matt 7:21-23) so if he is a pretender and a fraud, how would you really know that your “gifts” are not from him?.....the “angel of light”?

By the way, do you believe in sinlessness. (I'm not referring to what some mock as sinless perfection for perfection has to do with maturity in all the fruit of the Spirit, which takes a long time but can be "finished" in this lifetime if God grants our life to be long.) Sinlessness happens when we are cleansed of all unrighteousness and is at the beginning of being in Christ, and results in no desire to break any of the Commandments of God.

I don’t believe that it is possible to be “sinless” as a child of Adam (Rom 5:12)…..there is no one “sinless” apart from Christ Jesus.….and God made sure that he was born without the faulty DNA that Adam’s children inherited.

Peter was certainly not sinless even after his anointing with holy spirit…….the circumcision issue that arose demonstrated this because Peter showed favor to certain Jewish Christians who insisted that their gentile brothers be circumcised….he stopped associating with his gentile brothers, causing Paul to dress him down in front of everyone.

There was also “a sharp burst of anger” between Paul and Barnabas over the disciple Mark….so these spirit anointed men were still manifesting sinful human tendencies. No human is yet perfect in word or action....but knowing God and loving him will create in us a desire to please him by refraining from sinful activity....but first we have to identify what “sin” is from God’s perspective. As you are aware, not all sins are equal....God’s law showed this.

Until the kingdom “comes”, God‘s will cannot be “done on earth as it is in heaven.” The state of affairs in the world today shows us that God’s kingdom will soon bring an end to all wickedness on this earth and we will see the fulfilment of Revelation 21:2-4.

 

[Jack]

Imagine that, a JW telling someone she's deceived. How much irony can we stand?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

since they were performed on unbelievers to draw them to Jesus

Hi sweet sister. Sorry, but are you referring to 1 Corinthians 14:22? I hope not, because that would mean you didn't read the next verse, nor 14:2. So let me know why you say that about unbelievers, because you are smarter than basing that belief on these verses. Maybe it is Acts 2 you mean. Again 1 Cor. 14:2 is the rule. I think you are smart, so what happened in Acts 2 to the 3,000 Jews watching?

We have the complete written word of God to guide us, so the gifts were no longer necessary. After the death of the apostles, a foretold apostasy overtook the Christian faith and corrupted it. What came out of that apostasy was the Roman Catholic church, with its fake miracles and such. But there is no indication that the gifts were seen after the apostles passed away. They were the only ones who could pass them on to others by the laying on of hands.

The gifts are to strengthen the believers, and only given to a non believer to draw them to Christ. The 1st century received the early rain of the Spirit. Last century and now is the latter rain of the Spirit.

I cannot tell you that you are in error….only God can do that….but by what you have said, I see only demons pretending to be God, causing you to “see” things that others cannot, and implanting things in your conscious mind that you interpret as God speaking.
I do not believe that he operates like that in our time. If he did, how would people be able to tell the difference between the true and the false “powerful works” that would be in evidence in our day? “Signs and wonders” and “powerful works” are also a sign of satanic activity, (2 Thess 2:9-12; Matt 7:21-23) so if he is a pretender and a fraud, how would you really know that your “gifts” are not from him?.....the “angel of light”?

It seems you believe God took a vacation, and the devils are the only ones active in our lives. LOL In my life it is just the opposite.

I don’t believe that it is possible to be “sinless” as a child of Adam (Rom 5:12)…..there is no one “sinless” apart from Christ Jesus.….and God made sure that he was born without the faulty DNA that Adam’s children inherited.

Romans 5:12 is the reason Jesus died for us, and you too! What does this mean in the next chapter. Romans 6:5-7 "5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Peter was certainly not sinless even after his anointing with holy spirit…….the circumcision issue that arose demonstrated this because Peter showed favor to certain Jewish Christians who insisted that their gentile brothers be circumcised….he stopped associating with his gentile brothers, causing Paul to dress him down in front of everyone.

There was also “a sharp burst of anger” between Paul and Barnabas over the disciple Mark….so these spirit anointed men were still manifesting sinful human tendencies. No human is yet perfect in word or action....but knowing God and loving him will create in us a desire to please him by refraining from sinful activity....but first we have to identify what “sin” is from God’s perspective. As you are aware, not all sins are equal....God’s law showed this.

Paul said he wasn't "perfect" many times because of immature fruit of the Spirit. You might want to rethink what Peter did.

Until the kingdom “comes”, God‘s will cannot be “done on earth as it is in heaven.” The state of affairs in the world today shows us that God’s kingdom will soon bring an end to all wickedness on this earth and we will see the fulfilment of Revelation 21:2-4.

AMEN!!!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sorry, but are you referring to 1 Corinthians 14:22? I hope not, because that would mean you didn't read the next verse, nor 14:2. So let me know why you say that about unbelievers, because you are smarter than basing that belief on these verses. Maybe it is Acts 2 you mean. Again 1 Cor. 14:2 is the rule. I think you are smart, so what happened in Acts 2 to the 3,000 Jews watching?

The gifts that the Bible record concentrates on mainly are those that involve healing and resurrection. Today we see many who engage in faith healing minstries...some with great fanfare and people being “ slain in the sprit”....but nowhere in the scriptures is this seen. Believers were never healed and the apostles never healed each other. All infirmities were cured instantly with no failures. Those raised from the dead resumed their earthly lives and were returned to their grieving families, showing us what the resurrection is all about.
We can only imagine their joy!

The gifts are to strengthen the believers, and only given to a non believer to draw them to Christ. The 1st century received the early rain of the Spirit. Last century and now is the latter rain of the Spirit.

Some of the gifts were to strengthen believers, but not the ones offered only to the unbelievers.
The gifts were for a time and a purpose. They died with the apostles. But satan has many tricks to fool those who fail to see what he is up to.

It seems you believe God took a vacation, and the devils are the only ones active in our lives. LOL In my life it is just the opposite.

It is Jesus and his apostles who tell us who is ruling this world….and with God’s permission.
In his temptation of Jesus, the devil offered him “all the kingdoms” of this world in exchange for one act of worship……could the devil give Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world” if they were not in his possession?
He said that they had been “delivered“ to him and that he could give rulership to whomever he wished….doesn’t that explain why human rulership is so corrupt? (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-8)
Doesn’t it also explain why the world is now in exactly the same position as it was in Noah’s day? (Matt 24:37-39)
Violence and immorality is again rampant in the world, being fed to humans via their electronic devices…..the entertainment industry is a great tool in the hands of the devil. Have you seen many movies or TV shows offering wholesome entertainment lately? People today accept what they would have shunned only a few decades ago. The gradual conditioning of the human race is very evident when you step back and see what God is seeing again.

Romans 5:12 is the reason Jesus died for us, and you too! What does this mean in the next chapter. Romans 6:5-7 "5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

This is speaking of the elect, but I am not of that “calling”. (Heb 3:1) These alone will be “priests” of God and “kings” who will rule with Christ in his heavenly kingdom. Their resurrection is to heaven….The “first resurrection” but there is another to follow. (Rev 20:6; John 5:28-29)
These will have earthly subjects, as it says in Revelation 21:2-4. Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring the human race back into reconciliation with their Creator, so that his first purpose in connection with mankind on this earth can go ahead as he planned. (Isa 55:11) We were meant to live in paradise on earth forever.

Paul said he wasn't "perfect" many times because of immature fruit of the Spirit. You might want to rethink what Peter did.

Paul was like any one of us, still trapped in imperfect flesh….like all members of the elect, they will leave their sinful flesh behind in order to attain a heavenly resurrection. Peter was a victim of his imperfect human nature, just like we are…it’s a fight to deal with sin every day…..even for them.

These “saints”…chosen by God himself for a special purpose, have a different assignment to those who will remain on earth as their subjects. Having lived as humans, all member of this “government” (Isa 9:6) will know human nature intimately, and thereby be compassionate ‘kings and priests’ as Jesus was.

There is a reason why it will take a thousand years to undo all the damage that the first rebels caused, but all that has transpired since the fall, is recorded by God in the annals of history, creating precedents for all time to come. This will prevent any others from ever abusing their free will in the future.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The gifts that the Bible record concentrates on mainly are those that involve healing and resurrection. Today we see many who engage in faith healing minstries...some with great fanfare and people being “ slain in the sprit”....but nowhere in the scriptures is this seen. Believers were never healed and the apostles never healed each other. All infirmities were cured instantly with no failures. Those raised from the dead resumed their earthly lives and were returned to their grieving families, showing us what the resurrection is all about.
We can only imagine their joy!

Slain in the Spirit
John 18:
3 Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. 4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?” 5 They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. 6 Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground."

Though I've never been slain in the Spirit myself I know those who have.

All infirmities were cured instantly with no failures.:
I've noticed that Jesus never healed the same way twice. Why? So we wouldn't stuff Jesus in a small box, or create formulas. That is probably why it took Jesus two times to heal the blind man at Bethsaida.

A Blind Man Healed at Bethsaida​

22 Then He came to Bethsaida; and they brought a blind man to Him, and begged Him to touch him. 23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town. And when He had spit on his eyes and put His hands on him, He asked him if he saw anything. 24 And he looked up and said, “I see men like trees, walking.” 25 Then He put His hands on his eyes again and made him look up. And he was restored and saw everyone clearly. 26 Then He sent him away to his house, saying, “Neither go into the town, nor tell anyone in the town.”

Some of the gifts were to strengthen believers, but not the ones offered only to the unbelievers.
The gifts were for a time and a purpose. They died with the apostles. But satan has many tricks to fool those who fail to see what he is up to.

The gifts of the Spirit were used by those who already had the Spirit in their church services for the profit of all. 1 Corinthians 14:27 "If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret." This is the common use of tongues and interpretation. However, a gift of the Spirit can be given to an unbeliever to bring them to Christ. This happened on the Day of Pentecost when the disciples (120) were speaking in tongues praising God, and the devout Hebrew Jews that came from many other countries to gather in Jerusalem HEARD them speak in tongues and the interpretation was given to these devout Jews and they were able by this gift of the Spirit to let EACH understand in their own different languages.

It is Jesus and his apostles who tell us who is ruling this world….and with God’s permission.
In his temptation of Jesus, the devil offered him “all the kingdoms” of this world in exchange for one act of worship……could the devil give Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world” if they were not in his possession?
He said that they had been “delivered“ to him and that he could give rulership to whomever he wished….doesn’t that explain why human rulership is so corrupt? (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-8)

As I think I already told you, but if I didn't, I don't have to wrestle with Satan. From the moment I wake up my mind is steadfastly on God. 1 John 5:18 for context before verse 19. 1 John 5:18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." I know you believe that I am the devil's servant, but I am definitely God's servant and His Spirit has given me supernatural gifts. I find it interesting that the two gifts in use most of the time (I've only healed a paralyzed dog once) are gifts that use my EARS or EYES. 1 Corinthians 2:9-10
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

Since 1977 when I was baptized in the Spirit I was immediately given the gifts that allows you to hear God's voice. Words of Wisdom, Knowledge and Prophecy. Now in 2023 I asked for the seeing gift if it was from God and immediately saw what spirit was behind the sermon of some preachers. My pastor has pure white glory around him, but the church I visited with my missionary friend had black billowing smoke coming out of the back and sides of his head and shoulders.

Jane does this depict what you are feeling:
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Be careful:
Luke 12:10
“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

Doesn’t it also explain why the world is now in exactly the same position as it was in Noah’s day? (Matt 24:37-39)
Violence and immorality is again rampant in the world, being fed to humans via their electronic devices…..the entertainment industry is a great tool in the hands of the devil. Have you seen many movies or TV shows offering wholesome entertainment lately? People today accept what they would have shunned only a few decades ago. The gradual conditioning of the human race is very evident when you step back and see what God is seeing again.

I couldn't agree more! Have you seen The Jesus Revolution? It is about Greg Lauries life and how he came to the Lord.

This is speaking of the elect, but I am not of that “calling”. (Heb 3:1) These alone will be “priests” of God and “kings” who will rule with Christ in his heavenly kingdom. Their resurrection is to heaven….The “first resurrection” but there is another to follow. (Rev 20:6; John 5:28-29)
These will have earthly subjects, as it says in Revelation 21:2-4. Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring the human race back into reconciliation with their Creator, so that his first purpose in connection with mankind on this earth can go ahead as he planned. (Isa 55:11) We were meant to live in paradise on earth forever.

Please explain why you say you are not of that calling. You can't know yet. Those of that "calling" were martyred for not taking the mark of the beast." It doesn't say in Rev. 14 that none of the 144,000 didn't die a martyrs death. At least I don't remember. They are Jews of the House of Israel. We see Jews and Christians in chapters 12 and 13 being martyred. All martyrs will be in the first resurrection. Those who were "meant to live in paradise on earth forever" are all of Christ's spotless bride in both the first and second resurrections whose names are written in the Book of Life.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul was like any one of us, still trapped in imperfect flesh….like all members of the elect, they will leave their sinful flesh behind in order to attain a heavenly resurrection. Peter was a victim of his imperfect human nature, just like we are…it’s a fight to deal with sin every day…..even for them.

When Paul talks of the "flesh" he is talking about "the old man." That is our sin nature that Jesus came to cleanse and make new." Born again Christians of the Spirit are "clean." We have been cleansed from lawless sin, sins unto death, taking us from death to eternal life. 1 John 3:4-5; 8-9. We can also partake of the divine nature of God. 2 Peter 1:2-4. The other type of sin is sins NOT unto death. A baby Christian receives the first cleansing immediately upon justification and sanctification, making us righteous. But a baby Christian must grow in the fruit of the Spirit. Immature fruit takes time to mature, but we are still CLEAN. When all the fruit of the Spirit are mature, that is perfection, called holiness. Revelation 22:11. John 15:1-4.

These “saints”…chosen by God himself for a special purpose, have a different assignment to those who will remain on earth as their subjects. Having lived as humans, all member of this “government” (Isa 9:6) will know human nature intimately, and thereby be compassionate ‘kings and priests’ as Jesus was.

There is a reason why it will take a thousand years to undo all the damage that the first rebels caused, but all that has transpired since the fall, is recorded by God in the annals of history, creating precedents for all time to come. This will prevent any others from ever abusing their free will in the future.

Yes, and God's omniscience knows it will never happen again. Only the CLEAN John 15:3 will be there, and especially those who are perfect/holy. There are false teachings in the Church who say we will sin all throughout our lives because of our body. No! The body obeys our spirit and soul: the nature. So a sin nature called carnal flesh produces lawless sin, and needs to be born again of the Spirit. This is why the body is not filled with the Holy Spirit and born again. It is just a floppy puppet doing what the strings tell it to do. Romans 7:5; Romans 8:9.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Slain in the Spirit
John 18:
3 Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. 4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?” 5 They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. 6 Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground."

Though I've never been slain in the Spirit myself I know those who have.

Do you really think that these Roman soldiers were being “slain in the spirit”? Seriously, they had come to arrest a man that was known for being able to do supernatural things….when he identified himself perhaps they were expecting something terrible to happen…the Romans were very superstitious. “They drew back and fell to the ground”…..more than likely out of fear.

All infirmities were cured instantly with no failures.:
I've noticed that Jesus never healed the same way twice. Why? So we wouldn't stuff Jesus in a small box, or create formulas. That is probably why it took Jesus two times to heal the blind man at Bethsaida.

Jesus cured thousands of people and the Bible notes only some specifically…..what we see in so-called faith healing sessions today, are men parading around making a grand show and taking all the glory for themselves….but from whom is their power coming? Not from the source they claim because the gifts are no longer in operation…..as Paul said, needing to see miracles is the trait of a spiritual baby. Mature Christians don’t need ‘tricks’ in order to “believe”…..”faith, hope and love” are what God requires of his worshippers in the post apostolic period.

The gifts of the Spirit were used by those who already had the Spirit in their church services for the profit of all. 1 Corinthians 14:27 "If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret." This is the common use of tongues and interpretation. However, a gift of the Spirit can be given to an unbeliever to bring them to Christ. This happened on the Day of Pentecost when the disciples (120) were speaking in tongues praising God, and the devout Hebrew Jews that came from many other countries to gather in Jerusalem HEARD them speak in tongues and the interpretation was given to these devout Jews and the were able by this gift of the Spirit to EACH understand in their own different languages.

In talking with those who have come out of those charismatic churches, the faking of speaking in tongues is very common. No one wants anyone to think that they are lacking God’s spirit…..would you know a fake if you heard one….and would you know a fake interpretation if you heard it either?

As I think I already told you, but if I didn't, I don't have to wrestle with Satan. From the moment I wake up my mind is steadfastly on God. 1 John 5:18 for context before verse 19. 1 John 5:18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." I know you believe that I am the devil's servant, but I am definitely God's servant and His Spirit has given me supernatural gifts.

People can‘t possibly acknowledge something they don’t believe…..if satan is conducting himself as “an angel of light” and his deception is accepted as true, he has those “believers in miracles” captive….they have swallowed the deception, hook, line and sinker…..but the angel in their lives is not Jesus.

I find it interesting that the two gifts in use most of the time (I've only healed a paralyzed dog once) are gifts that use my EARS or EYES. 1 Corinthians 2:9-10
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

Funny, I have never heard of any apostle healing someone’s pet…..
Sorry, but that scripture is very misapplied IMO. It is true in reality that no human has ever “seen or heard” the whole of what God has in store for those who have the blood of Christ applied to them.

When God placed the first humans in paradise, he intended for it to be their permanent home…..but we lost it due to the misuse and abuse of free will on the part of three rebels……what we have not “seen or heard” is how that scenario would have played out if there had been no rebellion…..what we will see is the results of God’s salvation through Christ in regaining all that we lost.
We were not designed for heaven….God already had a large family there, created before the universe was even made. The earth was lovingly designed to support all the life he created here…..forever.

Jane does this depict what you are feeling:
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Be careful:
Luke 12:10
“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

I am careful, and that is why I question your “gifts”…..it is not blasphemy to call out what I personally see as the deceptions of the devil….designed to mislead by imitating the gifts that God was going to withdraw because they had served their purpose. The apostles warned that satan would use “powerful works” to draw people away from genuine Christianity……in my view, he has succeeded greatly because of the ignorance in most of those who claim to be “Christians”. People want to believe that they have special gifts….so he lets them. (2 Thess 2:7-12)

Remember why “FEW” are on “the road to life”…..and why “many“ are on “the road to destruction”. (Matt 7:13-14) The “weeds” of Jesus parable were not sown recently…..

Please explain why you say you are not of that calling. You can't know yet. Those of that "calling" were martyred for not taking the mark of the beast." It doesn't say in Rev. 14 that none of the 144,000 didn't die a martyrs death. At least I don't remember. They are Jews of the House of Israel. We see Jews and Christians in chapters 12 and 13 being martyred. All martyrs will be in the first resurrection. Those who were "meant to live in paradise on earth forever" are all of Christ's spotless bride in both the first and second resurrections whose names are written in the Book of Life.

Those with the genuine “calling”, know that God’s spirit has anointed them for life in heaven, ruling with Christ in his Kingdom. (Rev 20:6) They don’t just think they are. Their inordinate desire to be rid of their imperfect flesh and join their Lord in heaven overrides any earthly ties.

All members of Christ’s bride, (the 144,000) must die in the flesh in order to be “born again” as spirit beings and dwell in heaven in the presence of God. It does not require martyrdom, though some have died such a death.
I don’t believe that that those in Christendom, who claim to be “born again”, actually understand what the purpose is in being so chosen for that role. I also find that those who identify as such have great difficulty in explaining what God’s Kingdom is…..can you?

I am not one of the chosen ones….I am more than happy to remain here on this earth to be ruled by the ones God has chosen, and to enjoy life in the paradise that God originally intended for the human race descended from Adam. It will be restored because, what God starts, he finishes….(Isa 55:11; Rev 21:2-4)

As I said….your beliefs are yours to keep if you so wish….but they are far removed from what I believe….

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you really think that these Roman soldiers were being “slain in the spirit”? Seriously, they had come to arrest a man that was known for being able to do supernatural things….when he identified himself perhaps they were expecting something terrible to happen…the Romans were very superstitious. “They drew back and fell to the ground”…..more than likely out of fear.

Oh my, you've never felt the power of God have you? Have you ever been baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the gifts of the Spirit? You can receive more than one, but at least one. Many are called, but few are chosen. I have become one of the chosen who have received an office - Teacher. Eph. 4. Therefore, God has given me all but the two gifts for a different office. But the gifts He has given me has made it possible to receive 100% answered prayer. And though you don't think so, I have assurance that I am going to heaven with Jesus.

Jesus cured thousands of people and the Bible notes only some specifically…..what we see in so-called faith healing sessions today, are men parading around making a grand show and taking all the glory for themselves….but from whom is their power coming? Not from the source they claim because the gifts are no longer in operation…..as Paul said, needing to see miracles is the trait of a spiritual baby. Mature Christians don’t need ‘tricks’ in order to “believe”…..”faith, hope and love” are what God requires of his worshippers in the post apostolic period.

Did you know that when God makes a covenant like the Old Covenant, or the New Covenant, not a jot or a tittle will cease until all is fulfilled, and the Covenant of the Spirit has supernatural gifts of the Spirit and they will not cease for those with faith until we see Christ face to face.

In talking with those who have come out of those charismatic churches, the faking of speaking in tongues is very common. No one wants anyone to think that they are lacking God’s spirit…..would you know a fake if you heard one….and would you know a fake interpretation if you heard it either?

Of course I know when someone does not have the true gift of the Spirit and they speak in fake tongues. They also are not saved. I've only told one of them they are speaking fake tongues and need to truly repent and receive the true gift that is for all believers. Mark 16:16-18 I still pray for her as she still speaks the same fake tongues she did 47 years ago.

People can‘t possibly acknowledge something they don’t believe…..if satan is conducting himself as “an angel of light” and his deception is accepted as true, he has those “believers in miracles” captive….they have swallowed the deception, hook, line and sinker…..but the angel in their lives is not Jesus.

I know you worry about me and I thank you. But I must confess, I worry about you that you do not have the Holy Spirit and are not of the New Covenant of the Spirit. If you had even one supernatural gift you would know it did not come from some "angel of light." That sounds more like the angel Moroni.

Funny, I have never heard of any apostle healing someone’s pet…..
Sorry, but that scripture is very misapplied IMO. It is true in reality that no human has ever “seen or heard” the whole of what God has in store for those who have the blood of Christ applied to them.

Jane, you are a legalist like the pastor I saw billowing clouds of black smoke coming out of his body. You need to be more like me with the faith of a child.
John 21:25 "And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

When God placed the first humans in paradise, he intended for it to be their permanent home…..but we lost it due to the misuse and abuse of free will on the part of three rebels……what we have not “seen or heard” is how that scenario would have played out if there had been no rebellion…..what we will see is the results of God’s salvation through Christ in regaining all that we lost.
We were not designed for heaven….God already had a large family there, created before the universe was even made. The earth was lovingly designed to support all the life he created here…..forever.

The new earth will be our home.

I am careful, and that is why I question your “gifts”…..it is not blasphemy to call out what I personally see as the deceptions of the devil….designed to mislead by imitating the gifts that God was going to withdraw because they had served their purpose. The apostles warned that satan would use “powerful works” to draw people away from genuine Christianity……in my view, he has succeeded greatly because of the ignorance in most of those who claim to be “Christians”. People want to believe that they have special gifts….so he lets them. (2 Thess 2:7-12)

There is only one reason why you don't have faith in my gifts. If they ceased as you think, then you can't be wrong can you?

Remember why “FEW” are on “the road to life”…..and why “many“ are on “the road to destruction”. (Matt 7:13-14) The “weeds” of Jesus parable were not sown recently…..

Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Those with the genuine “calling”, know that God’s spirit has anointed them for life in heaven, ruling with Christ in his Kingdom. (Rev 20:6) They don’t just think they are. Their inordinate desire to be rid of their imperfect flesh and join their Lord in heaven overrides any earthly ties.

All members of Christ’s bride, (the 144,000) must die in the flesh in order to be “born again” as spirit beings and dwell in heaven in the presence of God. It does not require martyrdom, though some have died such a death.
I don’t believe that that those in Christendom, who claim to be “born again”, actually understand what the purpose is in being so chosen for that role. I also find that those who identify as such have great difficulty in explaining what God’s Kingdom is…..can you?

I am not one of the chosen ones….I am more than happy to remain here on this earth to be ruled by the ones God has chosen, and to enjoy life in the paradise that God originally intended for the human race descended from Adam. It will be restored because, what God starts, he finishes….(Isa 55:11; Rev 21:2-4)

As I said….your beliefs are yours to keep if you so wish….but they are far removed from what I believe….

The 144,000 are Jewish. They are to preach to the nation of Israel to save them all. But the end there will be many more than the 144,000! Sorry, you need to base your beliefs on the Bible.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Oh my, you've never felt the power of God have you? Have you ever been baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the gifts of the Spirit? You can receive more than one, but at least one. Many are called, but few are chosen. I have become one of the chosen who have received an office - Teacher. Eph. 4. Therefore, God has given me all but the two gifts for a different office. But the gifts He has given me has made it possible to receive 100% answered prayer. And though you don't think so, I have assurance that I am going to heaven with Jesus.



Did you know that when God makes a covenant like the Old Covenant, or the New Covenant, not a jot or a tittle will cease until all is fulfilled, and the Covenant of the Spirit has supernatural gifts of the Spirit and they will not cease for those with faith until we see Christ face to face.



Of course I know when someone does not have the true gift of the Spirit and they speak in fake tongues. They also are not saved. I've only told one of them they are speaking fake tongues and need to truly repent and receive the true gift that is for all believers. Mark 16:16-18 I still pray for her as she still speaks the same fake tongues she did 47 years ago.



I know you worry about me and I thank you. But I must confess, I worry about you that you do not have the Holy Spirit and are not of the New Covenant of the Spirit. If you had even one supernatural gift you would know it did not come from some "angel of light." That sounds more like the angel Moroni.



Jane, you are a legalist like the pastor I saw billowing clouds of black smoke coming out of his body. You need to be more like me with the faith of a child.
John 21:25 "And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.



The new earth will be our home.



There is only one reason why you don't have faith in my gifts. If they ceased as you think, then you can't be wrong can you?



Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!



The 144,000 are Jewish. They are to preach to the nation of Israel to save them all. But the end there will be many more than the 144,000! Sorry, you need to base your beliefs on the Bible.

As I said...very far removed from what my studies have shown. The 144,000 are spiritual Israel, not fleshly Israel....all my beliefs are based on the Bible.....the whole Bible.

Natural Israel has no further part in God’s purpose....they have played their part and in no way did they ever keep their covenants with their God, so having fulfilled his purpose for them, he cast them off simply because they could never do as he asked them....they were a rebellious, stiff necked people ...and they still are. When you talk to Orthodox Jews today, they still scoff at belief in Jesus as the Christ.....saying that he did not fit the criteria or the prophesies......I would like to see someone who fulfilled that criteria and prophesies better than Jesus did.

God chose a new nation....spiritual “Israel” who would prove that they recognised their Messiah and honoured their God by obeying the teachings of his son. The Kingdom was taken away from natural Israel and given to “the Israel of God”, (Gal 6:16) which was made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians.

Romans 2:28-29...
“For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people.” (see also Matt 21:42-46)

So from my viewpoint, nothing you have said rings true....

I will wish you well and will leave you to believe as you wish....God will set us all straight, soon enough.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

As I said...very far removed from what my studies have shown. The 144,000 are spiritual Israel, not fleshly Israel....all my beliefs are based on the Bible.....the whole Bible.

Natural Israel has no further part in God’s purpose....they have played their part and in no way did they ever keep their covenants with their God, so having fulfilled his purpose for them, he cast them off simply because they could never do as he asked them....they were a rebellious, stiff necked people ...and they still are. When you talk to Orthodox Jews today, they still scoff at belief in Jesus as the Christ.....saying that he did not fit the criteria or the prophesies......I would like to see someone who fulfilled that criteria and prophesies better than Jesus did.

God chose a new nation....spiritual “Israel” who would prove that they recognised their Messiah and honoured their God by obeying the teachings of his son. The Kingdom was taken away from natural Israel and given to “the Israel of God”, (Gal 6:16) which was made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians.

Romans 2:28-29...
“For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people.” (see also Matt 21:42-46)

So from my viewpoint, nothing you have said rings true....

I will wish you well and will leave you to believe as you wish....God will set us all straight, soon enough.

Before you go read Romans 11 and Revelation 12 and 13. God knows the future, and once the last Gentile is saved and the fulfillment of the Gentiles is complete, then all national Israel (the woman) will be saved during the Great Tribulation. When Paul was speaking of the natural olive branches who were partially blinded he was not speaking of "spiritual Israel" who will be saved at the end. It is the 144,000 virgin Jews who will preach to them once the partial blindness is removed. You are believing replacement theology that makes God a liar and His promises to national Israel bogus. There are other denominations who believe in replacement theology as well. I've talked to Calvinists and SDA who believe in this too. I don't know who doesn't besides Pentecostals and Charismatics which I am most comfortable with, though not totally. Unlike them, I believe in sinlessness/righteousness at becoming born again of the Spirit and cleansed of all unrighteousness, then glorification for the rest of my life as the fruit of the Spirit has grown to maturity and at last, in this lifetime, we are perfect and holy. Peter says then we will never stumble. 2 Peter 1:2-11. What I believe is the correctly interpreted teaching of the apostles. When taken out of context, it appears that Paul always struggled with sin, but that was his life as a Pharisee. You are right in Romans 2:28-29. And we agree on spiritual Israel, just not in their salvation at the end.

I've enjoyed our discussion. Even though we don't agree on most things spiritually, we can still be friendly. See everybody, a discussion can be done without provoking to anger.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Is the Bible contradicting for who raised Jesus.
John 10.18 says he did but what do you think

The passage extends beyond Jesus' physical form. When Jesus laid down his life he put his future in jeopardy.

To lay down your life means to sacrifice your life for someone or something. It is often used to describe the ultimate act of love, courage, or devotion. For example, a soldier might lay down their life for their country, or a parent might lay down their life for their child. The phrase comes from the Bible, where Jesus says, "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." (John 15:13)

Bear in mind that if a married soldier who has children should sacrifice his life for his country and his brothers in arms, that man not only dies, he also widows his wife and robs his children of a father's love. If it were possible for that same man to "take up his life" again, not only would his physical existence continue, he would also be available to love his wife and his children, build his business, and invest in his children's future.

In this passage, Jesus is not referring to his ability to resurrect himself. Instead, he is stating that he has been granted the authority to take up his position as the King of Israel and the savior of his people and followers, after being raised from the dead by the Spirit.

 

[CadyandZoe]

As I said...very far removed from what my studies have shown. The 144,000 are spiritual Israel, not fleshly Israel....all my beliefs are based on the Bible.....the whole Bible.

Why not both?

Natural Israel has no further part in God’s purpose....they have played their part and in no way did they ever keep their covenants with their God,

What if never keeping their covenants was God's purpose? (Think big picture.)