Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)

[ewq1938]

Daniel 11
15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.

16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.

19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

This shows the king of the north is not the AC but is a king that loses his kingdom to the AC. That doesn't prove the AC is from the North plus North is not a specific country either so you have not identified the country of the AC nor his race.

 

[The Light]

The chapter is about the 4th king of Persia, who attempts to take over all the Greeks.

Then it turns to Alexander the Great who is replaced by his Generals.

Until Egypt itself gains power, the king of the south, against Antiochus Epiphanes.

Some think he is a type for some future AC. But the chapter is about Antiochus Epiphanes, not the time of the Second Coming.

That's what they say.

 

[The Light]

This shows the king of the north is not the AC but is a king that loses his kingdom to the AC. That doesn't prove the AC is from the North plus North is not a specific country either so you have not identified the country of the AC nor his race.

If that's what you see, then that's what you see. I can't change that. What I see is the Word is talking about the king of the north and then that king is replaced by a raiser of taxes. The raiser of taxes is not long in his position after raising taxes. He doesn't lose his position in anger or battle.

At some point a vile person comes to power who is the king of the North. It does not say he is the next king of the North. However this king does not give honor to the kingdom and also obtains the kingdom by flattery.

Next the Word says that this king of the North is the prince of the covenant. If he is the prince of the covenant he is the Antichrist and we should understand that He becomes a world leader. We are told a league is made with him and he comes to power with a small people. I would assume this is the small group of people that control things.

If you don't know who the king of the North is, you are sleeping. From that you should be able to figure out who the raiser of taxes is. Knowing that you should be able to figure out who the prior king of the North is. Then look for a vile person, at some point after the raiser of taxes who obtained the kingdom by flattery.

So no, I did not tell you what country he is from, nor his race. I only told you he is "A" king of the North. Whether you see and understand that is not something I control.

Additionally.............Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

I'm not going to pin the tale on antichrist, but I told you what you need to know to identify him.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not going to pin the tale on antichrist, but I told you what you need to know.

You did not identify/prove what country or race the AC is. That is because the bible does not say.

 

[The Light]

You did not identify/prove what country or race the AC is. That is because the bible does not say.

Right. I showed you he is a king of the North and showed you how to prove who he is. If you don't see, you just don't see.

 

[covenantee]

1 John 2:18 Greek

500 [e]
antichristos
ἀντίχριστος
antichrist
N-NMS

500 antíxristos (from 473 /antí, "opposite to, in place of" and 5547 /Xristós, "Christ") – properly, opposite to Christ; someone acting in place of (against) Christ; "Antichrist."

1. “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
2. “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
3. “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.

 

[Hobie]

The Reformers accurately identified it as an antichrist.

I actually have a list with all Reformers who did..

 

[Davy]

You did not identify/prove what country or race the AC is. That is because the bible does not say.

Well, The Bible does point to where the final Antichrist will originate. Jesus pointed to the coming Antichrist for the end coming to play Him, The Christ.

So just what requirements did God give through His prophets about the coming of Lord Jesus Christ? That He would be of the tribe of Judah, of the house of David, specifically.

And that is what the 3rd century Church father Hippolytus also pointed to about the Antichrist.

Even when Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 was pointing to the Antichrist as the "man of sin", Paul was showing that false one coming to play God in a new stone temple in Jerusalem, trying to copy Christ's coming and going involving the future Millennium temple per the Book of Ezekiel. Paul said that false one will exalt himself over all that is 'called' God, or that is worshiped. It's another pointer to the Antichrist coming as Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

Right. I showed you he is a king of the North and showed you how to prove who he is. If you don't see, you just don't see.

No, he is not a king of the north. Someone else was. We know nothing about where the AC comes from or his race in that or any other passage.

 

[The Light]

No, he is not a king of the north. Someone else was. We know nothing about where the AC comes from or his race in that or any other passage.

We have the king of the north. In his estate is a raiser of taxes. In his estate is a vile person who is the prince of the covenant. Some see, some don't. 5 wise 5 foolish.

 

[ewq1938]

We have the king of the north. In his estate is a raiser of taxes. In his estate is a vile person who is the prince of the covenant.

Doesn't say the race or country of that person, just where they are at that time which doesn't prove where the Ac comes from which is what we are discussing.

Some see, some don't. 5 wise 5 foolish.

Sounds like something the foolish would say, and say, and say over and over.

 

[Timtofly]

That's what they say.

Daniel 11:2

"and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia."

The 4th Persian king goes up against Greece.

"And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those."

Alexander's kingdom was divided into 4 sections. 4 generals took over those 4 sections.

"And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion."

This was referred to as Egypt in the chapter.

One of the several kings of the north (Greece) who fought against Egypt was historically Antiochus Epiphanes. And the first century Jews remembered this as Hanukkah. This chapter was already fulfilled. But is used as a type, because Jesus said there would be another AoD like in Daniel 11.

 

[The Light]

Daniel 11:2

"and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia."

The 4th Persian king goes up against Greece.

"And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those."

Alexander's kingdom was divided into 4 sections. 4 generals took over those 4 sections.

"And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion."

This was referred to as Egypt in the chapter.

One of the several kings of the north (Greece) who fought against Egypt was historically Antiochus Epiphanes. And the first century Jews remembered this as Hanukkah. This chapter was already fulfilled. But is used as a type, because Jesus said there would be another AoD like in Daniel 11.

Daniel 11
6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

 

[The Light]

Doesn't say the race or country of that person, just where they are at that time which doesn't prove where the Ac comes from which is what we are discussing.

What? You can't figure out what country the king of the North is?

 

[Timtofly]

Daniel 11
6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

Obviously. Greece stopped around 100BC Then Rome started. It was the end the Greek Kingdom.

Some claim all 5 Kingdoms were over by 70AD. That is not true. Rome lasted for another almost 400 years. Rome was the 4th kingdom. The ten toes was the 5th kingdom lasting until the Reformation. That was the end of Daniel 2. Daniel 11 only gets us to the 4th kingdom, as it was about Greece the 3rd Kingdom.

 

[ewq1938]

What? You can't figure out what country the king of the North is?

I already know the bible does not say where the AC is from nor mentions his race. The king of the North is not the AC so it doesn't matter what country he is from.

 

[The Light]

I already know the bible does not say where the AC is from nor mentions his race. The king of the North is not the AC so it doesn't matter what country he is from.

Ok. Care to explain how you already know that the Bible does not say where the Antichrist is from?

 

[Davy]

I already know the bible does not say where the AC is from nor mentions his race. The king of the North is not the AC so it doesn't matter what country he is from.

And I already showed The Bible does define where the Antichrist will come from. But apparently you would rather sink back in the false comfort of your doctrines of men.

The Daniel 11 chapter with the symbolic example of the "vile person" reveals the final Antichrist will come to power using peace and flatteries, with a "small people" in Jerusalem.

Dan 11:23-24
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
KJV

That "small people" represents the crept in unaware strangers among the Jewish leadership, like the scribes (Kenites) and false Jew Pharisees (Canaanites). They will set him up as Israel's king.

Dan 11:28-31
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

That "holy covenant" is in connection with "his own land", which that covenant is about the re-establishing of the old covenant worship again in Jerusalem by the Jews for the end of this world. That points to that "vile person" being presented as an orthodox JEW (which will be a lie).

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Who would want to forsake that holy covenant among the orthodox Jews, and why? The pseudo-Christ or Antichrist, i.e., the devil, and those who serve the devil, i.e., those false Jews which Jesus called the "synagogue of Satan".

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

Those 3 acts are about spiritual desolation of the new 3rd temple soon to be built by the Jews in today's Jerusalem. That last act is about Jesus' warning of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL being setup for the end of this world in Jerusalem by the Antichrist.

So that's not about a pope, nor a western leader in New York, or Brussels, or Rome, or Moscow, nor an Arab. It is about a FAKE Jewish Messiah/Antichrist.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Now we look at Daniel 7:7-8 which also talks about this beast which was Rome...
Daniel 7:7-8
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Now notice something peculiar about this last kingdom. Daniel speaks of it, “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.”

Notice here that Daniel, while hearing the angels interpretation of this fourth beast, is told this beast (kingdom) has 10 horns, and one “little” horn came up out of these 10 horns and “plucked up” 3 of the preceding horns.

Now the Ten horns represent ten kings and an “extra” king rose up out of these Ten, and he “plucked up” or destroyed “three” preceding kings. We see something else..
Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Well out of this we can give the first identifying mark in finding out who the antichrist will be. So how do we know this “little horn” power is antichrist? Well, “Anti” means “opposite or “in place of” and this little horn king makes himself “opposite” of God by speaking “great words against the most high,” trying to change God’s laws, and by wearing “out the saints of the most high”

This little horn power is the antichrist.

So what are the Ten horns? Well remember how this beast power is Rome? And remember how a “horn” represents kings? Well the Roman Empire has been divided and now we have Western Europe. Here are the 10 divisions by ancient and modern name:

(1) Alemanni – Germany
(2) Franks – France
(3) Anglo-Saxons – England
(4) Burgundians – Switzerland
(5) Visigoths – Spain
(6) Suevi – Portugal
(7) Lombards – Italy
(8) Heruli
(9) Vandals
(10) Ostrogoths

Why don’t you see the last three, Heruli, Vandals and the Ostrogoths, on your map? Simply because these are the 3 horns that the antichrist “plucked up.”

So now we have FIVE identification marks to help us identify the Antichrist:

(1) He will rise up out of the Ten divisions of Rome
(2) He will destroy 3 of the kings among these Ten divisions
(3) He will “speak great words against the most high”
(4) He will “wear out” the saints of God. He is a persecuting power
(5) He “thinks to change times and laws” Daniel 7:25

We see Rome today, but it is not as strong as it was when it ruled the world before it was divided, but Rome still exists especially as we see the parts in Europe. That’s why the feet of the image in Daniel 2 still have the same “iron” as the legs, except this time its only “partly” strong, as she is today. So we can see how we are at the last days, because in the dream we see a Stone which “smote” it at it’s feet, and destroyed it. This stone is the kingdom of God.

So then with you naming these 10 toes, are you thinking Daniel 7 is all in the past? If not, what are the names of the current 10 toes of iron and clay?

 

[ewq1938]

Ok. Care to explain how you already know that the Bible does not say where the Antichrist is from?

I've read it.