Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[BarneyFife]

Solomon wrote that, at the height of his backsliding, he kept no delightful thing away from his eyes. We have been ushered into a global culture of virtual kingship where we can gaze upon anything we desire. Couple this with the fact that powerful and authoritative actors can manipulate factual reporting to the point that we can't trust anything that is seen or heard, and we have an atmosphere of despair.

Men's hearts are failing them for fear of what is coming on the earth. Many are thus inclined to wrestle against flesh and blood rather than against the unseen principalities and powers controlled by the adversary of souls. Others huddle in online talk shows and ruminate aloud about how foolish it is to even care that the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

And, then, there is the Word. It never changes. It is the anvil that will wear out all lying hammers, no matter how men twist and/or deny it. All words spoken against it will come to nought. All of the obfuscation and equivocation employed to undermine it's simple teachings will be finally exposed as utter foolishness.

Sin is the transgression of the law. The first great commandment is to love God supremely and the second, like unto it, is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Upon these two hangs all the law and the prophets.

It is a sin for a man to lie with a man, as with a woman. It is a sin for a man to wear that which pertains to a woman. God has said so. And history shows that nations that abandon these simple instructions have roughly three generations to get ready for collapse.

It is not necessary to perpetrate violence on children to attempt to avert this, but it does seem to make for a good straw man argument somehow.

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[Naomanos]

The term "fiance" indicates an intent for marriage.
Is that your intention, or just something you say to defuse the situation with Christians?

We are engaged to be married and it is not to defuse any situation.

Not sure I would recommend marriage for you two, unless it was what you BOTH wanted.

It very much is what we want. I am just waiting for my bankruptcy to clear for us to get married. Probably another year or so. This way she is not brought into the bankruptcy.

Especially if you were planning to have children.

We are not planning on having kids. We both have kids from our previous marriages and we're both at an age agree we don't want kids. I'm 49 years old. I don't have the energy for a baby or toddler at this point. She'll be 44 and doesn't want another kid.

So I have had a vasectomy to make sure that doesn't happen for when we do get married.

 

[St. SteVen]

We are engaged to be married and it is not to defuse any situation.



It very much is what we want. I am just waiting for my bankruptcy to clear for us to get married. Probably another year or so. This way she is not brought into the bankruptcy.



We are not planning on having kids. We both have kids from our previous marriages and we're both at an age agree we don't want kids. I'm 49 years old. I don't have the energy for a baby or toddler at this point. She'll be 44 and doesn't want another kid.

So I have had a vasectomy to make sure that doesn't happen for when we do get married.

Cool, thanks.
Do you attend church as a family, or what do you do to educate your children in the faith?

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[St. SteVen]

It is a sin for a man to lie with a man, as with a woman. It is a sin for a man to wear that which pertains to a woman. God has said so. And history shows that nations that abandon these simple instructions have roughly three generations to get ready for collapse.

I hope this is the video where Colby Martin addresses this.

/

 

[Naomanos]

Cool, thanks.
Do you attend church as a family, or what do you do to educate your children in the faith?

/

That is a sore subject for me. I do not attend church, no. I get my kids everyweekend and she doesn't want me brining them to my church, which is the Episcopal Church. She wants me to go to Baptist church or non-denominational. I will go to neither one. I have been to both services many times. If I wanted a rock concert I will go to one. Church for me isn't a concert. I am not fed spiritually at either of those churches.

Now, what you're gonna say is that she can not control what church I take the kids to (it's the typical response that I get) and like others if you do say that, would unfortunately be wrong. Per our divorce decree, she has final say in religious upbringing. She does actually get to tell me what church I must go to with the kids. So, we do not go to church, which is okay with, as long as I don't take them to my church.

I will watch my church's weekly recording of the service once the kids are back at their mom's. She and her new husband take them to the church up the street from where they live on Wednesday night or Tuesday night for kid's church.

She doesn't want me teaching them my faith either as you can probably guess.

 

[St. SteVen]

That is a sore subject for me. I do not attend church, no. I get my kids everyweekend and she doesn't want me brining them to my church, which is the Episcopal Church. She wants me to go to Baptist church or non-denominational. I will go to neither one. I have been to both services many times. If I wanted a rock concert I will go to one. Church for me isn't a concert. I am not fed spiritually at either of those churches.

Now, what you're gonna say is that she can not control what church I take the kids to (it's the typical response that I get) and like others if you do say that, would unfortunately be wrong. Per our divorce decree, she has final say in religious upbringing. She does actually get to tell me what church I must go to with the kids. So, we do not go to church, which is okay with, as long as I don't take them to my church.

I will watch my church's weekly recording of the service once the kids are back at their mom's. She and her new husband take them to the church up the street from where they live on Wednesday night or Tuesday night for kid's church.

She doesn't want me teaching them my faith either as you can probably guess.

Ugh, that's a tough one. Ouch.
Do the kids roll with it pretty well? Hopefully it's harder on you than them.
I suppose the upside is that they spend more time with you.
Rather than being rustled off to kids programs while you are in worship.

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[Wrangler]

Per our divorce decree, she has final say in religious upbringing. She does actually get to tell me what church I must go to with the kids.

Just out of curiosity, how did this come to pass with "equality" being all the rage? Do you actually get to tell her what church she must go to with the kids?

 

[Naomanos]

Just out of curiosity, how did this come to pass with "equality" being all the rage? Do you actually get to tell her what church she must go to with the kids?

I do not. She is considered the custodial parent and one of us has to make the decisions. She has them more than I do and therefore, she gets to make those decisions. The divorce happened back in 2016 too.

 

[Wrangler]

She does actually get to tell me what church I must go to with the kids. So, we do not go to church, which is okay with, as long as I don't take them to my church.

She doesn't want me teaching them my faith either as you can probably guess.

I’m a little confused. Has your faith changed since 2016? Why would you rather not take your children to church if it’s not your current denominational preference? And what is this about a rock concert?

 

[Naomanos]

I’m a little confused. Has your faith changed since 2016?

I was still trying to find a church home in 2016. I was a cradle Catholic but left the Catholic church, and so while I was with my ex-wife, I church-hopped. I didn't really have a church that I called home. Part of that was because of my ex-wife. The churches that she wanted to go to were Non-denominational or Baptist. I did not like either of those churches. I would give them several months, but I could not grow in either one. She would eventually try the Lutheran church with me but did not like it. So, we couldn't ever agree on a church. I stopped going altogether while with her, especially after our two kids were born.

Why would you rather not take your children to church if it’s not your current denominational preference?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but will answer it how I think it was asked.

I do not grow in either of the churches that she would have me take them to. I am also very much a person who will not fake it till I make it. That is not real to me and is living a lie. Why would I bring my kids to a church that is not my current denominational preference, if my going there is a lie? They want someone who will support the church. They want someone there who likes going there. That is not me. It's the reason I stopped going to the Catholic church. I could no longer support the church.

And what is this about a rock concert?

The churches we attended had what amounted to a rock band. There was guitar, bass, keyboard, drums behind glass, and music blaring out of huge speakers. There is worship, but there are also these rock concerts. I prefer worship that is reserved and reverent.

I get that others prefer this kind of rock concert worship, and that's fine, for them. I am not that kind of person.

Once I met my fiance, she introduced me to the Episcopal church and I have finally found a church home. I just cannot bring my kids there as my ex-wife will not allow it and I am not about to be held in contempt of court for going against the divorce decree as written.

I hope this answers your questions.

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting to note in these video presentations by the parents of transgender children,
that the child was typically between 3 and 5 years old when parents noticed the first undeniable signs
of the gender preferences showed up in their child. In this story, the Mom saw a refection
of her Tomboy self in her son that wanted to play with dolls and wear dresses.

Time to Blossom: Accepting My Transgender Daughter | Elizabeth August | TEDxPasadenaWomen​

449,310 views Nov 22, 2016
Elizabeth August shares her story about the magnitude of a mother's love. This young mom tells how she had to grieve the death of a son while simultaneously celebrating the birth of a daughter, when her five-year-old, who was born male, asked to present as a girl. Elizabeth is a dedicated elementary school teacher entering her 11th year in the classroom. She teaches social justice and acceptance of others and strives to teach students to think critically and be solution-oriented. She works to create a safe and open environment in her classroom. Over the last few years, Elizabeth’s journey as a mother of a transgender child opened her eyes and heart to what acceptance really means, and how adults not only need to teach children to accept others, but accept themselves. Her experiences have fostered her passion to ensure civil rights for all people. Elizabeth believes that by accepting and sharing our true selves with each other, we can create a diverse and loving community. Elizabeth studied Psychology and is married with two children.

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[BarneyFife]

I hope this is the video where Colby Martin addresses this.

/

I don't think it is, SS, and frankly, I can't imagine how a short video could overturn the sinfulness of perversion. I've read and heard countless objections to the traditional interpretation of Leviticus 18 and Romans 1 and it always amounts to over-complicating something that is quite simple.

God has seen fit to keep the instances of direct teaching on the subject very limited and the reason for that seems very likely to be to avoid confusion. He even calls certain sexual practices "confusion" in and of themselves.

I've watched at least part of Martin's Ted talk and his discussion with the Evangelical theologian and what I get from those is that he comes from the viewpoint of textual criticism and evolutionary theory which are rabbit holes of which I've thus far managed to keep my head clear, which will doubtless be no surprise to you, my friend. :)

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[BarneyFife]

The basic human tendency to compassion and sympathy are often understandably exploited by the advocates of LGBT, but it's just another unfortunate equivocation.

When God said that men shouldn't make idols and bow down to and worship them, He didn't mean that if the idolaters were mistreated for their sin by murderers and thieves that they should be absolved from the consequences of or even from the very conviction of their sin.

In the civil setting of the post-Exodus theocracy, these individuals were to be stoned to death.

Having said that, I don't believe that a three-year-old boy who likes to dress up in girl clothes and has no concept of duty before God is likely to be judged as someone who is fully conscious of their guilt.

And I'm just as sure that these words will be dissected and assigned some extreme nefarious intent.

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[TinMan]

It is a common occurrence for someone to use phenomenological language when describing their experiences. For example, a woman may say to her friend on the phone while describing her vacation experience, "We got up the next morning to watch the sunrise." It is not expected for her friend to respond with, "Don't be ridiculous, silly. :) Everyone knows that the earth rotates on its axis."

It is also far too common for people to assume that the meaning of a compound word is the result of the combining of the meanings of it's root words.

The point is not that language is full of strange phrases or that metaphors are a common literary device. the point is that any written work is the product of it's time and culture and that cultural understanding of the world. SO the four corners of the world comes from a time and culture that believed that the earth was flat. and calling bats birds is because at the time people didn't classify living animals onto classes like we do.

The bible is a product of its time and not a scientific work and not all of the facts we know now are going to fit in.
We know orientation is inborn just like we know that Black people have not been cursed with dark skin because of that actions of Noah's son Ham.

Paul's claim is that homosexual behavior is the most obvious case of God having given man over to degrading passions and a depraved mind. The basis of his claim is the natural order. I think you tacitly agree with him because you continually attempt to shift the focus to orientation rather than homosexuality. Your argument goes something like this. Orientation is an innate attribute of humanity. One should be allowed to freely give expression to his or her humanity. Therefore homosexual behavior should be allowed.

Not even close to what I am saying.

Your argument assumes, incorrectly, that male-male and female-female orientation is both a natural and healthy attribute of humanity. You claim to have scientific proof, but your proof is bogus as I have already argued.

YOU dislike of the overwhelming evidence doesn't make the evidence go away.

Flat Earthers don 't like the evidence that the planet is a sphere and deny it and argue against it, but that doesn't change the shape of our home.

If God, then God would never create an attribute of humanity that would violate his purpose for sexuality, which is reproduction. If Nature, then such an attribute would never survive more than one generation since natural selection depends on an interchange and combination of genetic material between a male and a female.

In other words, the very idea of innate "orientation" is absurd.

You should really educate yourself on the basics of gentics

 

[TinMan]

Then you agree? Correction is not hatred.

attacking, denouncing degrading and false claims is not correction.

 

[TinMan]

Solomon wrote that, at the height of his backsliding, he kept no delightful thing away from his eyes. We have been ushered into a global culture of virtual kingship where we can gaze upon anything we desire. Couple this with the fact that powerful and authoritative actors can manipulate factual reporting to the point that we can't trust anything that is seen or heard, and we have an atmosphere of despair.

Men's hearts are failing them for fear of what is coming on the earth. Many are thus inclined to wrestle against flesh and blood rather than against the unseen principalities and powers controlled by the adversary of souls. Others huddle in online talk shows and ruminate aloud about how foolish it is to even care that the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

And, then, there is the Word. It never changes. It is the anvil that will wear out all lying hammers, no matter how men twist and/or deny it. All words spoken against it will come to nought. All of the obfuscation and equivocation employed to undermine it's simple teachings will be finally exposed as utter foolishness.

Sin is the transgression of the law. The first great commandment is to love God supremely and the second, like unto it, is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Upon these two hangs all the law and the prophets.

It is a sin for a man to lie with a man, as with a woman. It is a sin for a man to wear that which pertains to a woman. God has said so. And history shows that nations that abandon these simple instructions have roughly three generations to get ready for collapse.

It is not necessary to perpetrate violence on children to attempt to avert this, but it does seem to make for a good straw man argument somehow.

.

History shows that all nations eventually collapse.

 

[TinMan]

I hope this is the video where Colby Martin addresses this.

/

I doubt that most would even watch it much less learn from it.

The people who use the laws of Leviticus to justify prejudice of course don't follow the laws of Leviticus themselves noting that Christians live under a new Covenant and they don't see the double standard in that.

 

[BarneyFife]

I doubt that most would even watch it much less learn from it.

The people who use the laws of Leviticus to justify prejudice of course don't follow the laws of Leviticus themselves noting that Christians live under a new Covenant and they don't see the double standard in that.

Your incredulity and prejudice is truly staggering. I've been listening to Colby Martin for over 2 hours now.

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[TinMan]

The basic human tendency to compassion and sympathy are often understandably exploited by the advocates of LGBT, but it's just another unfortunate equivocation.

Just as the basic human tendency to reject and fear those who are different is exploited by those who choose to hate.

When God said that men shouldn't make idols and bow down to and worship them, He didn't mean that if the idolaters were mistreated for their sin by murderers and thieves that they should be absolved from the consequences of or even from the very conviction of their sin.

In the civil setting of the post-Exodus theocracy, these individuals were to be stoned to death.

So why aren't you out murdering homosexuals?

 

[TinMan]

Your incredulity and prejudice is truly staggering. I've been listening to Colby Martin for over 2 hours now.

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says the man who invoked Leviticus while at the same talking about the new covenant.