Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[St. SteVen]

Naturally, I can only answer one objection at a time but, yes, I am sure that Scripture is not contrary to Scripture in the sense that giving gifts does not preclude receiving them.

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I thought I did a topic on OT misquotes in the NT, but I can't find it.

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[Wrangler]

I doubt there are many Christians who rail against homosexuality that are also not still enslaved to their own passions.

Agh, the twisted NOT.

Not still being enslaved to ones own passions could be said about anyone railing against any sin.

However, this thread is not about your twisted NOT. It's about properly identifying homosexuality as sin and being debated by those who advocate continuing this sinful act on spurious rationalizations. See the difference?

 

[Chadrho]

Agh, the twisted NOT.

Not still being enslaved to ones own passions could be said about anyone railing against any sin.

However, this thread is not about your twisted NOT. It's about properly identifying homosexuality as sin and being debated by those who advocate continuing this sinful act on spurious rationalizations. See the difference?

Oh yeah, I know the difference. I am certain we disagree on this issue. I'm not convinced homosexuality is a sin. Honestly, I don't think it's my business to worry about the sexual proclivities of others so long as they do no harm. More than that, I'm not worrying much about other's sins. Nonetheless, assuming homosexuality is a sin, I certainly don't see it as any worse than other sins, e.g. pride, gluttony, greed, selfishness, slander, covetousness, etc. Do you? There is not one person who condemns homosexuality that isn't guilty, this very day, of some sin. I bet not one. So what makes homosexuality the special sin?

 

[Wrangler]

I don't think it's my business to worry about the sexual proclivities of others so long as they do no harm.

Homosexual acts are inherently harmful. Much of the scientific evidence has been presented in this thread already - from life expectancy to depression to drug addiction, etc.

I certainly don't see it as any worse than other sins, e.g. pride, gluttony, greed, selfishness, slander, covetousness, etc. Do you?

No. Death is the wages of sin - of any kind.

I'm not convinced homosexuality is a sin.

You do know that homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible, right?

 

[TinMan]

Homosexual acts are inherently harmful. Much of the scientific evidence has been presented in this thread already - from life expectancy to depression to drug addiction, etc.

Fake data made form newspaper obituary clippings by a disgraced former professor is not science

What science has shown is that depression and substance abuse issues in LGBT people are tied directly to discrimination and harassment and rejection and being the target of so many lies form people so desperate to justify their own prejudices that they are willing to like about things like life expectancy.

No. Death is the wages of sin - of any kind.

Being born is fatal

You do know that homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible, right?

some interpert it that way

 

[BarneyFife]

Agreed.
Picketing their parade with HATE signs seems VERY counter-productive.

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It actually seems kind of stupid to me. Like putting yourself in the least likely place and time to find yourself in a teachable moment.

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[Chadrho]

Homosexual acts are inherently harmful. Much of the scientific evidence has been presented in this thread already - from life expectancy to depression to drug addiction, etc.


No. Death is the wages of sin - of any kind.


You do know that homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible, right?

For the sake of argument, I've assumed it is sin. My question was: What makes it particularly special as a sin? Pick whatever sin with which you struggle and tell me why it's any different than that one. Or, perhaps you are sinless now?

 

[St. SteVen]

It actually seems kind of stupid to me. Like putting yourself in the least likely place and time to find yourself in a teachable moment.

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Amazingly, I find myself working MUCH harder to love Christians than non.
(can I get a witness?!!)

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[CadyandZoe]

Are you sure?
Gave gifts, or received gifts?

Compare.

Ephesians 4:8 NIV
This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”

Psalm 68:18 NIV
When you ascended on high,
you took many captives;
you received gifts from people,
even from[a] the rebellious—
that you,[b] Lord God, might dwell there.

/

Incorrect translations.

 

[Wrangler]

My question was: What makes it particularly special as a sin?

Well, OTOH, nothing as I've already said. OTOH, I suppose it is special in that there are some here you argue that it is NOT a sin because <INSERT RATIONALIZATION HERE>. There are not passionate advocates for say rape or murder, unless you include the passion to murder babies.

 

[BarneyFife]

Amazingly, I find myself working MUCH harder to love Christians than non.
(can I get a witness?!!)

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That's probably why we're reminded so often in the NT of the necessity of doing so, despite it seeming to be so obviously intuitive. ;)

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[Wrangler]

I wonder what folks did about "Nephilims" when all they had to read about were plain ol' giants.

Another reference to something not explicitly contained in the thread.

I suppose one could infer translation comparison where one rendered it ‘giants’ whereas another rendered it Nephilim. Not sure why you are mentioning it.

There was a time not so long ago when you enjoyed my "streams of consciousness," as you called them.

I do enjoy your streams of consciousness, which not wanting to be deemed testy, I don’t consider your recent posts. If you haven’t been knowingly moving the goal posts OK. Whatever.

 

[BarneyFife]

For the sake of argument, I've assumed it is sin. My question was: What makes it particularly special as a sin? Pick whatever sin with which you struggle and tell me why it's any different than that one. Or, perhaps you are sinless now?

There are reasons people give to support that belief.

Whether they're wrong or right, whether God hates certain sins more than others or not:

Which sins are okay?

Which ones should be ignored?

Where in the Bible does it say we should wait until we're completely sinless to heed the instructions to warn of sin in passages like Ezekiel 3:18, Ephesians 5:11, 1 Timothy 5:20, 2 Timothy 4:2, Luke 17:3-4, Proverbs 31:9, Isaiah 58:1 and others?

The sin of homosexuality, among other forms of sensual indulgence, is being urged as good and right in today's world.

People have enough trouble overcoming the temptation to do evil things that virtually no one claims to be good and right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: By the time the scientific jury is fully in on the ill effects of these capitulations to desire for immediate gratification, they will be far too ingrained in society to get anyone to believe that reforms will have any chance of succeeding. We've already seen this happen with pre/extra-marital cohabitation, easy divorce, heterosexual perversion, etc.

We're not dealing with actual participants in the sin itself here—it's cheerleaders and advocate preachers I'm opposing. I find it bewildering that so many folks are having trouble making that distinction.

It's been suggested that some may be participants posing as mere advocates, but I can't see that kind of speculation as warranting the shirking of a known duty.

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[TinMan]

It actually seems kind of stupid to me. Like putting yourself in the least likely place and time to find yourself in a teachable moment.

.

But you have the opportunity to learn something yourself.

 

[TinMan]

There are reasons people give to support that belief.

Whether they're wrong or right, whether God hates certain sins more than others or not:

Which sins are okay?

Which ones should be ignored?

Where in the Bible does it say we should wait until we're completely sinless to heed the instructions to warn of sin in passages like Ezekiel 3:18, Ephesians 5:11, 1 Timothy 5:20, 2 Timothy 4:2, Luke 17:3-4, Proverbs 31:9, Isaiah 58:1 and others?

The sin of homosexuality, among other forms of sensual indulgence, is being urged as good and right in today's world.

Or people recognize that sexual orientation is inborn and homosexuality is a natural variation like blue eyes or being left handed.

People have enough trouble overcoming the temptation to do evil things that virtually no one claims to be good and right.

and people are rejecting the claim that something that is inborn and natural and ultimately an expression of love is not evil even if some try to insist that it is.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: By the time the scientific jury is fully in on the ill effects of these capitulations to desire for immediate gratification,

You keep claiming that your position is not itself hateful but right here you put your hate on full display.

"ill effects" You are saying LGBT people are sick. First this serves to make them less human, they aren't a person they are a disease, something to fear. And as sick people good healthy people have an obligation to "cure" them through what ever means necessary. they fact that they don't want to be "cured" just shows how sick they are and how they need to be isolated form good 'healthy' people for safety sake. In living memory that "cure" involved things like repeated uses of elector convulsive therapy. Gay people were strapped down and had bolts of electricity shot into their brains again and again and again until there literally was no one left. But since they no longer acted gay (or did much of anything) they were "cured"!! then there were the untold number of LGBT people who had doctors strap them down and hammer iron spikes into their skull. sure it would likely kill them but they sure weren't homosexual anymore.

"these capitulations of desire for immediate gratification" I Homosexual are incapable of love, they only experience lust just like animals. As sub human sex machines they need to be stopped by good people who can actually experience love.

Deny all you like but what you just wrote is pure bigotry.

they will be far too ingrained in society to get anyone to believe that reforms will have any chance of succeeding. We've already seen this happen with pre/extra-marital cohabitation, easy divorce, heterosexual perversion, etc.

Reforms?

We're not dealing with actual participants in the sin itself here—it's cheerleaders and advocate preachers I'm opposing. I find it bewildering that so many folks are having trouble making that distinction.

Maybe because of things like what you posted right here.

 

[BarneyFife]

But you have the opportunity to learn something yourself.

By carrying a hate sign?

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[St. SteVen]

Or people recognize that sexual orientation is inborn and homosexuality is a natural variation like blue eyes or being left handed.

I tend to agree. But isn't the real issue fornication and adultery? Those are not hereditary traits, right?
And I understand that marriage laws throw a wrench in the works for homosexuals, but... ???
Homosexuals have been operating 'in the closet" for a long time. The same could be said for cannabis users.
The laws on cannabis use do more harm than good. Especially in the black community. Horrible.
Many states are changing laws for both marriage and cannabis.

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[Chadrho]

There are reasons people give to support that belief.

Whether they're wrong or right, whether God hates certain sins more than others or not:

Which sins are okay?

Which ones should be ignored?

Where in the Bible does it say we should wait until we're completely sinless to heed the instructions to warn of sin in passages like Ezekiel 3:18, Ephesians 5:11, 1 Timothy 5:20, 2 Timothy 4:2, Luke 17:3-4, Proverbs 31:9, Isaiah 58:1 and others?

The sin of homosexuality, among other forms of sensual indulgence, is being urged as good and right in today's world.

People have enough trouble overcoming the temptation to do evil things that virtually no one claims to be good and right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: By the time the scientific jury is fully in on the ill effects of these capitulations to desire for immediate gratification, they will be far too ingrained in society to get anyone to believe that reforms will have any chance of succeeding. We've already seen this happen with pre/extra-marital cohabitation, easy divorce, heterosexual perversion, etc.

We're not dealing with actual participants in the sin itself here—it's cheerleaders and advocate preachers I'm opposing. I find it bewildering that so many folks are having trouble making that distinction.

It's been suggested that some may be participants posing as mere advocates, but I can't see that kind of speculation as warranting the shirking of a known duty.

.

I think the pearl clutching over homosexuality is a tempest in a tea cup. Where's the diatribes against greed? Oh wait, we love our comfort too much for that. Let's see Christians band together against indifference and hatred in all its demonic forms. Pfft. Let's face it, homosexuals are an easy target. They're just another group of outcasts, sinners who we can condemn in our righteousness. And yet, none of us are free of sin. How does that work? I'm a sinner, but I am better than other sinners, somehow less sinful?

Here's the problem in a nutshell. Certain Christians have made homosexuality the primary target of their judgments while turning a blind eye to all kinds of wickedness that thrive all around them so that it appears to the observer that the hostility against homosexuality is simply prejudice disguised as a concern for righteousness. Let's see Christians band together to outlaw greed. We know greed is a sin, it's rampant and out in the open. The rich are not in the closet out of fear of persecution; that was the gays. Christians kick homosexuals while they're down and pat the rich on the back. That's not righteous.

 

[St. SteVen]

How does that work? I'm a sinner, but I am better than other sinners, somehow less sinful?

Decades ago when I did prison ministry, it was interesting to hear the prisoners using this rating system for sin.
I'm thinking... "You are ALL in prison. HELLO! ???" - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

none of us are free of sin. How does that work? I'm a sinner, but I am better than other sinners, somehow less sinful?

Humankind wants to judge sins on a curve. God judges sin PASS/FAIL, and we all FAIL.

That's "sins" plural and "sin" singular.

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