Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

bro.tan

Active Member
Dec 11, 2010
782
140
43
52
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Salvation by keeping the law? Seriously?
The law that was given to the Israelites alone through Moses. ???

This is also apart of that law given to Moses to give to the Israelites, who then gives to the world or the rest of the son's of Adam. Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, having faith in the promise of God is a bad thing.

hmmx1:

Happy?

.
So God said we will never perish but have eternal life

He said if we ask, he would give us rivers of living water flowing to eternal life

He said we will never hunger or thirst. We will live forever. Again, he said we would never die and he assured, we would be risen on the last day

He thought the word says we have the spirit as a seal. Until ressurection day

He said he would never leave nor forsake us

He said this eternal life was promised before time began.. And we can know we have it..

all these things that assure our security in christ.. Yet you acted as if it was a bad thing if we trust christ in these things..

or did I misunderstand you?
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God's wrath is righteous and good. I do believe God pours out wrath at times as the bible clearly shows that from the flood to Moses and the Egyptians to Sodom and Gomorrah etc. Wrath is very similar to revenge, but I don't think you have pointed to revenge so much as wrath.

I wouldn't look at the above examples of destruction as wrath though. God protects the righteous from the wicked at times.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness
Those are good points, but it paints a very ugly picture of God.
One that is very difficult to "love" except as a fear response.
What kind of love is that?

Receive the free gift of eternal life. Or, if you prefer, you will be incinerated.
I'm fine either way.
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,713
6,886
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So God said we will never perish but have eternal life

He said if we ask, he would give us rivers of living water flowing to eternal life

He said we will never hunger or thirst. We will live forever. Again, he said we would never die and he assured, we would be risen on the last day

He thought the word says we have the spirit as a seal. Until ressurection day

He said he would never leave nor forsake us

He said this eternal life was promised before time began.. And we can know we have it..

all these things that assure our security in christ.. Yet you acted as if it was a bad thing if we trust christ in these things..

or did I misunderstand you?

Well, your straw man keeps getting bigger and bigger and I certainly didn't contribute anything to its construction so I'd say, yeah.

.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,513
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?​


My reason again relays back on what Jesus talked about when he spoke about sowing seed,

Matthew 13

New American Standard Bible

Jesus Teaches in Parables​

13 On that day Jesus had gone out of the house and was sitting by the sea. 2 And large crowds gathered to Him, so He got into a boat and sat down, and the whole crowd was standing on the beach.
3 And He told them many things in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and they sprang up immediately, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But after the sun rose, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell [a]among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 But others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundred, some sixty, and some thirty times as much. 9 The one who has ears, [b]let him hear.”

An Explanation for Parables​

10 And the disciples came up and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 And [c]Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

12 For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

14 And [d]in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘[e]You shall keep on listening, [f]but shall not understand;
And [g]you shall keep on looking, [h]but shall not perceive;

15 For the heart of this people has become dull,
With their ears they scarcely hear,
And they have closed their eyes,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their heart, and return,
And I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17 For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

He is speaking to his chosen disciples at this time, near the end it seems like, after having called out the prophet Isaiah promised fulfillment of parables being spoken of which were only perceived for the moment because they had yet to have the holy spirit, and also those who did not yet believe, may start to believe afterward if they so choose to. For now, though it seems no one really desires that Jesus be their king in all of Israel but rather be put to death and have his name not spoken of period or you die too. He is fixing to bless his disciples and explain the parable to them so they could understand it.

The Sower Explained​

18 “Listen then to the parable of the sower. 19 When anyone hears the [i]word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one sown with seed beside the road. 20 The one sown with seed on the rocky places, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution occurs because of the [j]word, immediately he [k]falls away. 22 And the one sown with seed among the thorns, this is the one who hears the word, and the anxiety of the [l]world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it [m]becomes unfruitful. 23 But the one sown with seed on the good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces, some a hundred, some sixty, and some thirty times as much.”

Weeds among Wheat​

24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven [n]is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed [o]weeds among the wheat, and left. 26 And when the [p]wheat sprouted and produced grain, then the weeds also became evident. 27 And the slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? [q]How then does it have weeds?’ 28 And he said to them, ‘[r]An enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he *said, ‘No; while you are gathering up the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

The Mustard Seed​

31 He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a person took and sowed in his field; 32 and this is smaller than all the other seeds, but when it is fully grown, it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the sky come and nest in its branches.”

The Leaven​

33 He spoke another parable to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like [s]leaven, which a woman took and hid in three [t]sata of flour until it was all leavened.”

34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak anything to them without a parable. 35 This was so that what was spoken through the prophet would be [u]fulfilled:

“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will proclaim things hidden since the foundation of the world.”

The Weeds Explained​

36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the [v]weeds of the field.” 37 And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the weeds are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the [w]end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the [x]end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom [y]all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and they will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. The one who has ears, [z]let him hear.
 

Raccoon1010

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
15,376
17,881
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those are good points, but it paints a very ugly picture of God.
One that is very difficult to "love" except as a fear response.
What kind of love is that?

Receive the free gift of eternal life. Or, if you prefer, you will be incinerated.
I'm fine either way.
Then the judicial system is ugly too, and military personnel, police officers, etc.
 

Raccoon1010

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
15,376
17,881
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those are good points, but it paints a very ugly picture of God.
One that is very difficult to "love" except as a fear response.
What kind of love is that?

Receive the free gift of eternal life. Or, if you prefer, you will be incinerated.
I'm fine either way.
I think we are two very different people. I know that some people have a problem with correction and lethal force purpose. There are some that would just lie down and die and let tyrants rule the country and possibly torture the citizens. I am not one of them St. Steven. So is that an ugly picture?
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is also apart of that law given to Moses to give to the Israelites, who then gives to the world or the rest of the son's of Adam. Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
"... gives to the world..." ???
You can't be serious.
Judaism has historically been a closed system.
What did Peter say at the house of Cornelius?

Acts 10:28 NIV
He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile.
But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think we are two very different people. I know that some people have a problem with correction and lethal force purpose. There are some that would just lie down and die and let tyrants rule the country and possibly torture the citizens. I am not one of them St. Steven. So is that an ugly picture?
That's a good post. You raise valid points, as usual.

Things have changed a lot historically.
I grew up in an era where you could trust authority for the most part.
There has been a serious shift. I don't want to get into politics.
But I think everyone knows what I mean.

Ugly? Oh yes.
 
Jul 6, 2023
162
62
28
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
So Judas was an apostle..

He chose them to follow him.. One of them was the devil.. I guess according to you the devil is saved
The devil is traditionally seen as an angel of heaven that was called morningstar (a fairly high angel rank) and as per your OSAS the devil never fell. :) . Judas Iscariot was an apostle chosen by Jesus but as per your OSAS Judas never fell. But lo as per the bible they fell. You claim to be born-again to be seated above the Most High and say bible smible, OSAS all the way. You and your minions have secured something eternal but it ain't life.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,936
5,689
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Judas Iscariot was an apostle chosen by Jesus but as per your OSAS Judas never fell.
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

But lo as per the bible they fell.
Say what? Chapter and verse please, thanks.

You claim to be born-again to be seated above the Most High and say bible smible, OSAS all the way.
"bible smible"? - LOL

You and your minions have secured something eternal but it ain't life.
Did you say Minions?
1696290501612.jpeg
 
Jul 6, 2023
162
62
28
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
How did you arrive at that conclusion?


Say what? Chapter and verse please, thanks.


"bible smible"? - LOL


Did you say Minions?
View attachment 36780

Steven, verses for someone unconcerned about context or biblical nuance are like pearls before swine. :)
minion means darling, hanger-on. sorry can't find the right emoji:hearteyes: Who else would send an emoji with hearts as eyes or what not? They are partakers of the convo saying OSAS over the bible. Need to be inclusive mustn't we.
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,713
6,886
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sometimes it's hard to focus on the issues at hand because of the way people talk down to others. Not that there's never a time for straight talk, but:

"You swiny OSASers" - lol

It's almost more humorous than it is unkind.

Like the Bible is full of "Whatever you do, don't cultivate anything like assurance of God's faithfulness" type statements.

LORD, should we call down fire from Heaven like Elijah did on their swiny, OSAS heads?

Somebody stop me :jest:

.
 

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,456
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Tiny Tim - Tiptoe Through The Tulips

I wasn't aware this guy was a calvinist!



Eternal Security is scripture

Only to those that only read their handful of happy verses and ignore the rest of God';s Word.

OSAS people need plausible deniability so they don't dare read the rest of God's Word! :stageright:

They can fool some of the people some of the time... but they not fooling the Lord any of the time!