Question for non-JW's

[Aunty Jane]

I’ve already explained to you what it means to be “Born Again “ you obviously aren’t understanding in the Spirit....only those Born Again understand what it means.

Have you? I asked what is the purpose of being born again? And if it has to take place for one to enter the kingdom of God…what is the kingdom of God? Did you answer that?

The New Testament uses the word saint or saints 67 times. In every instance, the reference is to all believers (e.g., Acts 26:10; Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2). Never is the word used of a special group of believers who serve God better than others. Scripture is clear that all Christians are saints

In order to be a “saint”, one must be ”called” or “chosen” by God, so not all who identify as Christians are “saints”.

Paul addressed the Corinthians in his first letter, ch 1:2-3……
”2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.”

So we have those who also call upon the name of the Lord Jesus, who are not “saints”…. so where do these fit into your belief system?

Paul mentions this “heavenly calling“ again in Hebrews 3:1…
”3 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus.”
So those with a “heavenly calling” are God’s “elect”….the “chosen ones”. These alone enter the Kingdom of God….but for what purpose? Can you tell me?

Jesus here is called an “apostle and High Priest”…..do you know why?

I have answered all of your questions....whereas you have answered none of mine...you don’t even know what Born Again means....saying we throw it around, etc...you can only be in God’s Kingdom, when one is Born Again!....which you acknowledge yourself, that you haven’t a clue what it means...therefore you couldn’t possibly understand if anyone who is Born Again tries to explain it to you...like this verse of scripture...do you understand it?

Well, I know what being “born again” means to me, but it is very different to what you believe.
I am not called to be a “saint” because my future destiny is right here on earth as a subject of God’s Kingdom. When Jesus taught his disciples how to pray he said…”Our Father, who art in heaven”….”our Father”, not just “my Father”. He prayed for God’s name to be “hallowed”, which is very difficult if you never use it. I grew up in Christendom and never once heard God’s name mentioned. When someone showed me God’s name in my own KJV Bible, I couldn’t believe it. (Psalm 83:18)

Then Jesus prayed for God’s kingdom to “come” and his will to be “done on earth as it is in heaven”.
For years I prayed that prayer without ever knowing what I was praying for.
How does God’s Kingdom “come”? When will God’s will be done “on earth as it is in heaven”….not yet apparently.

Being Born Again is of the Holy Spirit.....you can’t read your way into becoming Born Again....that’s an act that only God in his mercy can perform and he does it through the Spirit.....it’s supernatural.....as God is Spirit and Alive.

I agree that it is supernatural, but not everyone who believes that they have been born again actually are……they have an expectation that all Christians go to heaven and therefore being “born again” goes with that expectation. You have not explained what that expectation means.
Please tell me the purpose of being “born again”…your own words will let me know that you understand what you are talking about.

 

[Ritajanice]

Have you? I asked what is the purpose of being born again? And if it has to take place for one to enter the kingdom of God…what is the kingdom of God? Did you answer that?

Yes I did...several times.

In order to be a “saint”, one must be ”called” or “chosen” by God, so not all who identify as Christians are “saints”.

Correct a Born Again has been called and chosen by God..Hence we are joint heirs with Christ.

Romans 8:16-18​

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King James Version​

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16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Paul addressed the Corinthians in his first letter, ch 1:2-3……
”2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.”

So we have those who also call upon the name of the Lord Jesus, who are not “saints”…. so where do these fit into your belief system?

How did you call on the name of the Lord, in your/their own strength?

God brings/ draws us to Jesus...if they aren’t Born Again..then they are still in darkness and their sin/ alienated from God..which his word says.

Paul mentions this “heavenly calling“ again in Hebrews 3:1…
”3 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus.”
So those with a “heavenly calling are God’s “elect”….the “chosen ones”. These alone enter the Kingdom of God….but for what purpose? Can you tell me?

Read your Bible and you’ll find out?

The elect are those who have been birthed in the Spirit...

Bible Verses About Election​

Bible verses related to Election from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance​

-Sort By Book Order




Ephesians 1:4-5 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (Read More...)

John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Romans 8:28-30 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Read More...)

Revelation 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

2 Timothy 1:9 - Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Jesus here is called an “apostle and High Priest”…..do you know why?

Well, I know what being “born again” means to me, but it is very different to what you believe.
I am not called to be a “saint” because my future destiny is right here on earth as a subject of God’s Kingdom. When Jesus taught his disciples how to pray he said…”Our Father, who art in heaven”….”our Father”, not just “my Father”. He prayed for God’s name to be “hallowed”, which is very difficult if you never use it. I grew up in Christendom and never once heard God’s name mentioned. When someone showed me God’s name in my own KJV Bible, I couldn’t believe it. (Psalm 83:18)

Then Jesus prayed for God’s kingdom to “come” and his will to be “done on earth as it is in heaven”.
For years I prayed that prayer without ever knowing what I was praying for.
How does God’s Kingdom “come”? When will God’s will be done “on earth as it is in heaven”….not yet apparently.

You can’t birth yourself into the Spirit..we are already in the supernatural kingdom of God as soon as we become Born Again...it’s the spiritual realm.

I agree that it is supernatural, but not everyone who believes that they have been born again actually are……they have an expectation that all Christians go to heaven and therefore being “born again” goes with that expectation. You have not explained what that expectation means.
Please tell me the purpose of being “born again”…your own words will let me know that you understand what you are talking about.

...I have already explained how we become Born Again.

It’s a supernatural act from God...

How would I show you how God supernaturally births us in the Spirit. ...it’s like the wind...have you read that scripture?

John 3:8​

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King James Version​

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8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The first death is of this mortal body/ the second death is permanent death, Jesus saves us from the second death.

we are born dead. thats the first death.. Unless one is born again, they will not see the kingdom...

the second death is an eternal death in the lake of fire

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes I did...several times.

Sorry but my questions were sidestepped. You didn’t answer them at all.

Correct a Born Again has been called and chosen by God..Hence we are joint heirs with Christ.

Romans 8:16-18​

King James Version​

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Again, if you are chosen by God…..what is the purpose of being a “joint heir with Christ”?
You side step every question.

How did you call on the name of the Lord, in your/their own strength?

God brings/ draws us to Jesus...if they aren’t Born Again..then they are still in darkness and their sin/ alienated from God..which his word says.

I gave you scripture that says otherwise….not all Christians are born again because only the elect have a special role for which they are chosen….what is that role?

Read your Bible and you’ll find out?

LOL….you really have no answers, do you? I have read my Bible…in fact I have studied it carefully for over 50 years….your answers are shallow and not terribly well informed TBH. The answers you give are vague to say the least.

You can’t birth yourself into the Spirit..we are already in the supernatural kingdom of God as soon as we become Born Again...it’s the spiritual realm.

...I have already explained how we become Born Again.

Yes…but not why…..what purpose does it serve? I never asked you how.

It’s a supernatural act from God...

I know, but what are the elect chosen for…..? Surely you must know.

How would I show you how God supernaturally births us in the Spirit. ...it’s like the wind...have you read that scripture?

John 3:8​

King James Version​

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

LOL…..still skirting the real questions…not HOW, but WHY?
God doesn’t do anything for no reason….what is the reason why he chose you? What is the purpose of the kingdom which you say you will enter…?
Is there a “big picture” in your belief system at all? You don’t seem to be making much sense.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I can answer this, but it involves the trinity..therefore I have to leave it as talking about the trinity are against forum rules.

A TERM!!!
Are you actually being serious...being thrown around!!!....if you don’t know what being “ Born Again “ means, I can’t help you on that one...there is also no point in going further with you....as you aren’t Born Again as you are saying....you wouldn’t have a clue what I would be talking about.

John 3:3​

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King James Version​

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3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Again this makes absolutely. No sense to me..

You are still dead and in sin,and alienated from God if you aren’t Born Again...one doesn’t belong to him......anyway, I will leave you to your own beliefs...have a good day.

I am amazed at those who take biblical truths and make reigious terms out of them that destroy the trut meaning

words like born again, baptism.

its sad

 

[Ritajanice]

we are born dead. thats the first death.. Unless one is born again, they will not see the kingdom...

the second death is an eternal death in the lake of fire

Exactly...and how can they follow Christ, if they haven’t been birthed in the Spirit?

They can follow the Bible..that is not the same, as following Jesus once we have been birthed in the Spirit is it?

 

[Ritajanice]

Sorry but my questions were sidestepped. You didn’t answer them at all.

Oh yes I did, it was you who sidestepped.

Again, if you are chosen by God…..what is the purpose of being a “joint heir with Christ”?
You side step every question.

I gave you scripture that says otherwise….not all Christians are born again because only the elect have a special role for which they are chosen….what is that role?

LOL….you really have no answers, do you? I have read my Bible…in fact I have studied it carefully for over 50 years….your answers are shallow and not terribly well informed TBH. The answers you give are vague to say the least.

Yes…but not why…..what purpose does it serve? I never asked you how.

I know, but what are the elect chosen for…..? Surely you must know.

I have answered everyone of you questions.

LOL…..still skirting the real questions…not HOW, but WHY?
God doesn’t do anything for no reason….what is the reason why he chose you? What is the purpose of the kingdom which you say you will enter…?
Is there a “big picture” in your belief system at all? You don’t seem to be making much sense.

Now please answer me this....How do you become a follower of Jesus?....do you think that by reading your bible that you are following Jesus?

I have given you loads of scripture....to which there was no reply...or maybe NO understanding of it.

Like Born Again..you’re asking me to explain....when you should know yourself what it means, if you have supernaturally been birthed in the Spirit?

Of course I’m not making sense to you....because you have confessed yourself you haven’t a clue what Born Again means...and telling me that I’ve been throwing God’s word around!!!

 

[Ritajanice]

I am amazed at those who take biblical truths and make reigious terms out of them that destroy the trut meaning

words like born again, baptism.

its sad

I know and Aunty Jane said I was throwing the term “Born Again “ around....can you believe that? seriously it’s worrying.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Oh yes I did, it was you who sidestepped.

I have answered everyone of you questions.

I would suggest that you read through our responses again….there are several questions you have completely sidestepped.
Answer please….Why did God choose any of you as one of his elect (“saints”)…..what role will you play in the kingdom you expect to enter. In Jesus’ day the old covenant was still operating. Under the new covenant what changed?

Now please answer me this....How do you become a follower of Jesus?....do you think that by reading your bible that you are following Jesus?

John 6:44, 65….No one can come to the Father except through Jesus….and no one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by the Father….it is the Father who “draws” those in whom he sees an agreeable heart….this keeps out the pretenders.

Someone preached Christ’s message of salvation to me and showed me from the Bible, the answers to all my questions. I studied the Bible carefully for two years before taking the step of full immersion baptism, dedicating my life to the service of my God by following the commands taught by his son…..all of them.

Bible study is my passion and if I cannot answer anyone’s questions with scripture and conviction, I could not call myself a Christian……it means way more than a cursory reading of the Bible to support doctrine….Bible study means knowing what you believe, and why you believe it. Sadly, I have not seen much of that in your posts.

 

[Ritajanice]

I would suggest that you read through our responses again….there are several questions you have completely sidestepped.
Answer please….Why did God choose any of you as one of his elect (“saints”)…..what role will you play in the kingdom you expect to enter. In Jesus’ day the old covenant was still operating. Under the new covenant what changed?

I’m already in his spiritual kingdom....the New covenant is what a Born Again is under.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Hebrews 8:6 - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Romans 11:27 - For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

2 Timothy 1:10He has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.


I answered your question by God’s word, I suggest you go back and read it.

John 6:44, 65….No one can come to the Father except through Jesus….and no one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by the Father….it is the Father who “draws” those in whom he sees an agreeable heart….this keeps out the pretenders.

Meaning what exactly?..what must we receive before we can follow and understand in the Spirit who Jesus is?

Anyone can read who Jesus is by reading a Bible...a Born Again knows him through the rebirth..they have a living spiritual relationship with God..Through the Holy Spirit?

His Spirit is in our spirit..his Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God....he chose us for his own purpose, to do as he pleases...we Glorify Jesus....why , because the Holy Spirit glorifies him to our spirit...

Someone preached Christ’s message of salvation to me and showed me from the Bible, the answers to all my questions. I studied the Bible carefully for two years before taking the step of full immersion baptism, dedicating my life to the service of my God by following the commands taught by his son…..all of them.

Bible study is my passion and if I cannot answer anyone’s questions with scripture and conviction, I could not call myself a Christian……it means way more than a cursory reading of the Bible to support doctrine….Bible study means knowing what you believe, and why you believe it. Sadly, I have not seen much of that in your posts.

Bible study is good, but I asked you a question..which again, NO answer....do you think that by reading and studying your Bible..that you are following Jesus?

He birthed me in the Spirit for his good pleasure...he gave me his precious Holy Spirit and through him, I Glorify Jesus at every given opportunity..

We hear the word of God in our Spirit, which is then relayed to our mind..

His Living word is “ Mind Blowing “

Hebrews 4:12

King James Version

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12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

A person is “born again” through faith in Jesus Christ, who took the judgement for our sins to give his righteousness to anyone who would believe.

It is an experience when everything one have been taught about God/ Christ becomes real, and one develops a direct and personal relationship with God.

The Bible teaches that all humans have sinned. Romans 3:23 KJV: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
However, by acknowledging your sins and accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and Redeemer, you begin a journey walk into his righteous standard of living. To be reborn, one must recognize how Jesus died for your sins and how, through him, you've been made righteous before God.

Scripture is very clear that the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit comes only through the hearing of the Gospel message .Romans 10:17
17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Only in the Gospel does the Spirit move to open up a person's eyes, ears and heart through the Father's gift of faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly...and how can they follow Christ, if they haven’t been birthed in the Spirit?

They can follow the Bible..that is not the same, as following Jesus once we have been birthed in the Spirit is it?

They keep asking why,,that shows they do not comprehend what it means

we are dead.. in adam all die

in this dead state we are condemned.. and unless that dead state is taken care of.. we will nto see God or his kingdom

thats why Jesus said one MUST (it is not an option) Be Born Again (spiritually)

 

[Cassandra]

we are born dead. thats the first death.. Unless one is born again, they will not see the kingdom...

the second death is an eternal death in the lake of fire

Of course--this is why we are born mortal. The second death is a death, not an eternal dying.

 

[Ritajanice]

They keep asking why,,that shows they do not comprehend what it means

we are dead.. in adam all die

in this dead state we are condemned.. and unless that dead state is taken care of.. we will nto see God or his kingdom

thats why Jesus said one MUST (it is not an option) Be Born Again (spiritually)

Exactly..you know by the Spirit what I am talking about..why?...because you are Born Again, Born from above...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course--this is why we are born mortal. The second death is a death, not an eternal dying.

exactly,

its not an eternal dying, it is an eternal separation from God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly..you know by the Spirit what I am talking about..why?...because you are Born Again, Born from above...

that which is born of spirit is spirit..

 

[Ritajanice]

that which is born of spirit is spirit..

AMEN!!!

 

[Jack]

It’s not about defending , it’s about accepting the rules as they stand at the moment. Stating that Jesus is God is part of what we believe about the trinity ( yes I believe that ) It leads to discussion for and against that……. Hence why I mentioned it earlier!
I will not be discussing this any further

But, JW's constantly attack the deity of Jesus. That's not a violation?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But, JW's constantly attack the deity of Jesus. That's not a violation?

they want the fighting to stop.

they allow alot of stuff in here.. not going to question the reason why.. But it is there chat room..

 

[Aunty Jane]

Answer please….Why did God choose any of you as one of his elect (“saints”)…..what role will you play in the kingdom you expect to enter. In Jesus’ day the old covenant was still operating. Under the new covenant what changed?

This is one of the questions you avoided....what role do you expect to play in the kingdom you assert that you have already entered? If you are under the new covenant.....what changed for the Jewish Christians who were now under a new arrangement? What was their expectation concerning their ‘election’?

I answered your question by God’s word, I suggest you go back and read it.

If anyone reads our exchanges they will see that my questions are sidestepped with the wrong answers.
You seem to have no idea of why God chose you for a role that is obviously not clear to you. If it is God’s spirit that has given you the “born again” conviction, wouldn’t you already know what is expected of you in that role......what is the reason for your election?

Meaning what exactly?

It is God who “draws” right hearted ones to his truth....he does not reveal it to those who want to believe what is not true. Those are the ‘deluded’ ones who will offer their excuses to our judge when he comes to make an accounting. (Matt 7:21-23)

As Paul said....
2 Thess 2:7-11.....
“7 For the secret of lawlessness already is inwardly working itself,—Only until he that restraineth at present shall be gone out of the midst:

8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one,—Whom the Lord [Jesus] will slay with the Spirit of his mouth, And paralyse with the forthshining of his Presence:—

9 Whose presence [shall be] according to an inworking of Satan With all manner of mighty work and signs and wonders of falsehood,

10 And with all manner of deceit of unrighteousness in them who are destroying themselves, Because the love of the truth they did not welcome that they might be saved;—

11 And for this cause God sendeth them an inworking of error, To the end they should believe in the falsehood”. (TEB)

The foretold ‘falling away’ from the truth, (as taught by Jesus and his apostles) was already beginning before the last of the apostles had passed away. John was yet to receive his Revelation and pen his last three letters before the ‘restraining’ influence of God’s spirit was withdrawn. Then the “lawless” ones would lead the Christians away from the truth and into full blown apostasy. (Greek “a·po·sta·siʹa” which has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.”)

From this apostasy came Roman Catholicism and from the RCC came many daughters who all took their mother’s dirty laundry with them. This is what is passed off today, in its thousands of disunited and bickering “denominations”, as “Christianity”. It is also what accounts for the ignorance of its members who are virtually illiterate when it comes to Bible knowledge. They are taught “theology” but the majority are simply fed spiritual garbage and don’t know that it is not the truth, but something twisted and designed to offend the very one whom they purport to worship. The Pharisees did exactly the same thing....they exchanged the truth for the lie, and took a whole nation with them. Satan does not change his tactics because he knows human nature better than we do.

His Spirit is in our spirit..his Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God....he chose us for his own purpose, to do as he pleases...we Glorify Jesus....why , because the Holy Spirit glorifies him to our spirit...

Yes, we already established this many times.....but my question was why were the elect chosen? What is their role in the Kingdom of God that you say is already a reality for you. What is the Kingdom of God”?
Please answer me this.....you must know if you are a “saint”.

Bible study is good, but I asked you a question..which again, NO answer....do you think that by reading and studying your Bible..that you are following Jesus?

Really? This was my response....

Bible study is my passion and if I cannot answer anyone’s questions with scripture and conviction, I could not call myself a Christian……it means way more than a cursory reading of the Bible to support doctrine….Bible study means knowing what you believe, and why you believe it. Sadly, I have not seen much of that in your posts.

It’s not just Bible reading but careful study.....over many decades. If I don’t know how to “follow Jesus” by studying his life and teachings by now.....then something is very wrong. We prove who we are by what we do....not just by what we say. Talk is cheap.
James 2:18....
“Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Exactly....God is observing all of us and he is a reader of hearts....he knows when we reject the truth to cling to cherished falsehoods. If we didn’t love the lies, we would see through them, because a study of the scriptures, as opposed to the study of “theology”, would make the errors glaringly obvious. Theology covers over the errors because it is not from God or his Christ.