A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[face2face]

Will of His Own? Or "carnal mind that desires sin"? These are very very different.

Paul call's it the mind of the flesh; thinking of the flesh; this is something Jesus had to overcome which is why he said he was in agony until his crucifixtion when he would put that mind to death.

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (agony) until it is accomplished.

It means the Lord was constantly keeping that mind captive to the will of God his Father.

In the same way Paul exhorts us

"demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we (like Christ) take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Being in possession of a carnal mind does not mean one must use it! Christ choose not to for every temptation he experienced.

And, we aren't discussing Trinity here.

No problem!

If you think this means that Jesus had a part inside that desired evil things you attribute sin to Him. I personally do not. The desire for evil things is itself sin.

Much love!

Jesus and James provide you the process of sin...but if you are not willing to be shown there is no point is there?

F2F

 

[face2face]

He perfectly submitted His Own will to the Father specifically not having that corrupted flesh as we have. He was made just like us except without sin.

You need to revisit that.

That one submit's their will to another does not actually mean that they had something wrong with their own will. We do, that's certain!

You need to revist this also

So there wasn't some inner voice urging Him to sin.

And this...

The devil coaxed Jesus to sin, but Jesus did not have the evil desires for those things the devil was tempting Him with. The greatest temptation of all, I would say, was the cross, and even then He showed His love and forgiveness, because that is His heart.

Much love!

This also....isn't it incredible how the Scripture can teach you the opposite of all the above and yet you have those false teachings firmly engrained in your mind. Such is the wonder of this subject...but like I said - you need to go in search of truth - you wont accept it from me.

F2F

 

[marks]

Paul call's it the mind of the flesh; thinking of the flesh; this is something Jesus had to overcome

Be careful here.

Romans 8:5-8 KJV
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if you are saying the same carnal mind that we are born with, you are putting Christ as God's enemy, with a mind that is hostile to God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You need to revisit that.

?

This also....isn't it incredible how the Scripture can teach you the opposite of all the above and yet you have those false teachings firmly engrained in your mind. Such is the wonder of this subject...but like I said - you need to go in search of truth - you wont except it from me.

OK, well, have a great weekend!

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Be careful here.

Romans 8:5-8 KJV
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if you are saying the same carnal mind that we are born with, you are putting Christ as God's enemy, with a mind that is hostile to God.

Much love!

Very true - can you look further in Romans 8 so show a more complete picture?

 

[marks]

Very true - can you look further in Romans 8 so show a more complete picture?

So it's true, you do believe that Jesus was born corrupted by sin. Yes?

Much love!

 

[face2face]

So it's true, you do believe that Jesus was born corrupted by sin. Yes?

Much love!

Hebrew 2:14 and Romans 8:1-3 teach that Jesus had the exact same nature as you.

Do you know why this was necessary?

Why would God have His son in our nature...you need to think about Who God is!

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses​

Wasn't Jesus a Witness to Jehovah?

 

[marks]

Hebrew 2:14 and Romans 8:1-3 teach that Jesus had the exact same nature as you.

Do you know why this was necessary?

Why would God have His son in our nature...you need to think about Who God is!

F2F

Romans 8:3 KJV
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The likeness of something is not the thing itself.

Romans 8:6-8 KJV
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

How would it be that Jesus could, with a carnal mind, please God? How could He be subject to God?

The reason we can is because we share His spiritual mind.

You seem to think of Jesus in ways that I see the Bible teaching what we need saving from, which means Jesus Himself needed a savior. To rescue Him from that corruption of His evil-desiring carnal mind that is hostile to God.

I certainly do not agree.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Be careful here.

Romans 8:5-8 KJV
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if you are saying the same carnal mind that we are born with, you are putting Christ as God's enemy, with a mind that is hostile to God.

Much love!

The first point is that a carnal mind of itself is not sin; only the mind which is given voice and action...a thought is not sin. i.e Jesus asking his Father to remove the cup of suffering him him is not a sin! It would be if he turned from God and did not go through with his death.

So if you read earlier in Romans you would see this

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit Ro 8:5.

Jesus only set his mind on the things of the Spirit, even though he wrestled with the thoughts of the flesh (i.e carnal mind). You could say Marks his carnal mind was never activated - it was in himl it had potential but not once did he act on it.

F2F

 

[face2face]

A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses​

Wasn't Jesus a Witness to Jehovah?

Yes he was. ..God declared His righteousness in and through him - which is why Christ had to have our nature! If not, God had no victory over sins flesh!

 

[face2face]

A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses​

Wasn't Jesus a Witness to Jehovah?

Here is a tricky question for you quiet to chew on this weekend

2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

“Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God ...” (Heb. 2:17)

How did God condemn sin in the nature of His Son?
What was in Christ that God was able to condemn?

Enjoy!

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

Here is a tricky question for you quiet to chew on this weekend

2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

“Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God ...” (Heb. 2:17)

How did God condemn sin in the nature of His Son?
What was in Christ that God was able to condemn?

Enjoy!

F2F

The fulfilment of the law.

Romans 7:7-8 King James Version (KJV)God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.

 

[face2face]

The fulfilment of the law.

Romans 7:7-8 King James Version (KJV)God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.

Yes that happened but no, go back and read the text carefully.
F2F

 

[marks]

...a thought is not sin.

That's not always true, and again, the desire for evil things is itself sin. So if you are saying that inside, Jesus wanted to do evil things, but He had to subjugate that within Himself, you are accusing Him of battling with His "sinful side", or however you'd want to put it.

Romans 7:8 KJV
8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

G1939
ἐπιθυμία
epithumia
ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah
From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after).

My Bible search shows 38 appearances of this work in the NT, maybe looking at each of them may give you the right idea of this word.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Just my opinion @face2face, christ within Jesus left on the cross, and the body of Christ was given to be the sacrfice for sin; i believe jesus was taking on the sins of the world when he was being battered and beaten, in patreon. Or whatever if called, and he was bascially the Torah in the body, and it was nailed to the cross and Jesus willjngly gave up his life on behalf of God and behalf of the world.

If you wanna share your answer please feel free too

 

[face2face]

Just my opinion @face2face, christ within Jesus left on the cross, and the body of Christ was given to be the sacrfice for sin; i believe jesus was taking on the sins of the world when he was being battered and beaten, in patreon. Or whatever if called, and he was bascially the Torah in the body, and it was nailed to the cross and Jesus willjngly gave up his life on behalf of God and behalf of the world.

If you wanna share your answer please feel free too

How was your sin represented in the Lord's body?

 

[marks]

That's not always true, and again, the desire for evil things is itself sin. So if you are saying that inside, Jesus wanted to do evil things, but He had to subjugate that within Himself, you are accusing Him of battling with His "sinful side", or however you'd want to put it.

Romans 7:8 KJV
8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

G1939
ἐπιθυμία
epithumia
ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah
From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after).

My Bible search shows 38 appearances of this work in the NT, maybe looking at each of them may give you the right idea of this word.

Much love!

Corrupt flesh responds to Law in this way:

Romans 7:5 KJV
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

At the end of the day . . . which this is now for me . . . I don't see how it is you aren't in conflict with this passage:

Romans 8:5-8 YLT
5) For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;
6) for the mind of the flesh is death, and the mind of the Spirit—life and peace;
7) because the mind of the flesh is enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself,
8) for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.

You are saying Jesus had the mind of the flesh, but to Him it wasn't death, contrary to this passage. That to Him it wasn't hostile to God, that for Him He could still please God. Contrary to this passage.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Yes he was. ..God declared His righteousness in and through him - which is why Christ had to have our nature! If not, God had no victory over sins flesh!

How does one relate to a Spirit?

Could it be that God became flesh so that we could relate?.....and, His Righteousness, what does it consist of if it was not giving his life?

However, I must ask or rather make the statement that 'giving his life' encompassed far more than allowing us to murder him.......and I will add, Jesus didn't 'have to' do anything, ie 'have to' as men understand the term. It was tenderness towards his creation which compelled him to identify.......a bit like, if you were the creator of worms and felt sufficient tenderness towards them that you wanted them to see your glory.....so you became a worm.....and the worms chose to do you in.

 

[MatthewG]

How was your sin represented in the Lord's body?

My sins killed him. Im a murderer by default.