Will Trump seek asylum in Israel and Build the 3rd Temple?

[strepho]

It's the lesser of two evils in both partys. I hate politicians.
Isaiah chapter 10 . The Assyrian is antichrist. Satan goes by different names. He's role actor doing different roles. Get the picture.
Near future, satan as antichrist is being used by God to test people. Those who won't study sound doctrine, are biblically illiterate, will worship antichrist near future.
Many hirelings are withholding the truth from teaching traditions of men and false doctrine. These fake preachers are stripping off the armour off people, and they are defenseless against antichrist lies and deception.
How does Trump fit in??
Really?!!
Has anyone ever read Isaiah chapter 4??. Our leaders have the mind's of children !. No moral compass!!.
It's like kids in sand pit. Throwing sand at each other. Our nation is decaying morally and spiritually.
Revelation chapter 13 . America is being absorbed into the one world political system. It's all nations in one world political system. At the 6th trump, satan as antichrist appears in Jerusalem. Its 5 month period.
It's turns into one world religious system when antichrist arrives 6th trump. The whole world will go bananas over antichrist. Satan as antichrist will go into temple of God and claim to be Messiah.
The saints are God's Elect, they have seal of God and will not worship antichrist near future.
How relevant is trump when antichrist arrives 6th trump??.
People won't give second wink to him or anyone else !.
Majority will face spirtual destruction when antichrist arrives near future. Many people will end up in sheol.
It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked.
Documentation, Isaiah chapter 10, and chapter 4, and revelation chapter 13.

 

[amigo de christo]

It's the lesser of two evils in both partys. I hate politicians.
Isaiah chapter 10 . The Assyrian is antichrist. Satan goes by different names. He's role actor doing different roles. Get the picture.
Near future, satan as antichrist is being used by God to test people. Those who won't study sound doctrine, are biblically illiterate, will worship antichrist near future.
Many hirelings are withholding the truth from teaching traditions of men and false doctrine. These fake preachers are stripping off the armour off people, and they are defenseless against antichrist lies and deception.
How does Trump fit in??
Really?!!
Has anyone ever read Isaiah chapter 4??. Our leaders have the mind's of children !. No moral compass!!.
It's like kids in sand pit. Throwing sand at each other. Our nation is decaying morally and spiritually.
Revelation chapter 13 . America is being absorbed into the one world political system. It's all nations in one world political system. At the 6th trump, satan as antichrist appears in Jerusalem. Its 5 month period.
It's turns into one world religious system when antichrist arrives 6th trump. The whole world will go bananas over antichrist. Satan as antichrist will go into temple of God and claim to be Messiah.
The saints are God's Elect, they have seal of God and will not worship antichrist near future.
How relevant is trump when antichrist arrives 6th trump??.
People won't give second wink to him or anyone else !.
Majority will face spirtual destruction when antichrist arrives near future. Many people will end up in sheol.
It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked.
Documentation, Isaiah chapter 10, and chapter 4, and revelation chapter 13.

Many already build in the one world religion of anti christ . they call it unity , love , we are one
as they merge together with even other religoins believing GOD is with them . AND YET KNOW NOT
that unto GOD this false religion leadeth not but rather unto HE who desires to be as GOD .
SIE ONE WORLD religoin , ITS ALREADY HERE and grows by the day and by the hour . THEY CALL IT LOVE
only IT AINT LOVE and it aint COMING FROM GOD . as they hold rainbows high
and hug muslims and let imams come into their churches to teach them the things we have in common .
OH ITS HERE and it will only get much worse , VERY FAST too .

 

[amigo de christo]

It's the lesser of two evils in both partys. I hate politicians.
Isaiah chapter 10 . The Assyrian is antichrist. Satan goes by different names. He's role actor doing different roles. Get the picture.
Near future, satan as antichrist is being used by God to test people. Those who won't study sound doctrine, are biblically illiterate, will worship antichrist near future.
Many hirelings are withholding the truth from teaching traditions of men and false doctrine. These fake preachers are stripping off the armour off people, and they are defenseless against antichrist lies and deception.
How does Trump fit in??
Really?!!
Has anyone ever read Isaiah chapter 4??. Our leaders have the mind's of children !. No moral compass!!.
It's like kids in sand pit. Throwing sand at each other. Our nation is decaying morally and spiritually.
Revelation chapter 13 . America is being absorbed into the one world political system. It's all nations in one world political system. At the 6th trump, satan as antichrist appears in Jerusalem. Its 5 month period.
It's turns into one world religious system when antichrist arrives 6th trump. The whole world will go bananas over antichrist. Satan as antichrist will go into temple of God and claim to be Messiah.
The saints are God's Elect, they have seal of God and will not worship antichrist near future.
How relevant is trump when antichrist arrives 6th trump??.
People won't give second wink to him or anyone else !.
Majority will face spirtual destruction when antichrist arrives near future. Many people will end up in sheol.
It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked.
Documentation, Isaiah chapter 10, and chapter 4, and revelation chapter 13.

Sie religoin to UNIFY them all to join as one , HAS Grown massive now .
They long went about to break down the faiths within christendom and even the other false religoins .
To bring them to UNITY and unto HE WHO DESIRES to be AS GOD , NOT GOD .
Jesus is fast being pushed out of even christendom . FOR DOCTRINE DIVIDES
but their love junk UNITES . YEAH , WE GOT A MAJOR PROBLEM HOUSTON , THE DEVIL worketh even within christendom
to usher in utopia love and to make ready a people for , THE BEAST . OH its coming all right and even now
as we speak there are spirits at work to convince the peoples to UNIFY
and they prepare their digital system by which if one conforms not , NO BUY NO SELL .
OH ITS HERE and its a coming .

 

[amigo de christo]

Many are under the guise of a false hope of a utopian empire for world PEACE and SAFETY .
Shhhh
you can almost hear it now as the SKY SUDDENLY RIPS and THEN what will ye do ....................
For the SON OF MAN COMETH in an hour ye KNOW NOT o world .
And when they shall say peace and safety , SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMETH UPON THEM
they shall not escape . The end hour is upon us . The time draws ever nigh and the lambs LOOK TO THE SKY . enjoy the ryhme
cause That is THE DAY this lamb has longed for my friends . To be with the GLORIOUS KING . now raise those hands
and let all that draws breath praise and thank the LORD .

 

[Freedm]

Majority will face spirtual destruction when antichrist arrives near future. Many people will end up in sheol.
It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked.

Did you know that the KJV translates the word Sheol as "hell" 31 times, and as "the grave" another 31 times? Why so inconsistent? When the Bible speaks of the wicked dying, they translate Sheol as hell, and I'm sure you can guess the reason for that. Yet when the Bible speaks of the righteous dying, they translate the word Sheol as "the grave". Same word, two completely different translations.

For example
Genesis 44:31
It shall come to pass, when he seeth that the lad is not with us, that he (Jacob) will die: and thy servants shall bring down the gray hairs of thy servant our father with sorrow to the grave (sheol).

The fact is, the Jewish people regarded Sheol as the place where everybody goes upon death, both the righteous and the wicked. Most Bible translations are very inconsistent in their translations, but the KJV is by far the worst manipulator of them all. Yet according to you, Jacob is going to the "holding place for the spiritually dead or wicked". Maybe you should reconsider your understanding.

 

[Timtofly]

Did you know that the KJV translates the word Sheol as "hell" 31 times, and as "the grave" another 31 times? Why so inconsistent? When the Bible speaks of the wicked dying, they translate Sheol as hell, and I'm sure you can guess the reason for that. Yet when the Bible speaks of the righteous dying, they translate the word Sheol as "the grave". Same word, two completely different translations.

For example
Genesis 44:31
It shall come to pass, when he seeth that the lad is not with us, that he (Jacob) will die: and thy servants shall bring down the gray hairs of thy servant our father with sorrow to the grave (sheol).

The fact is, the Jewish people regarded Sheol as the place where everybody goes upon death, both the righteous and the wicked. Most Bible translations are very inconsistent in their translations, but the KJV is by far the worst manipulator of them all. Yet according to you, Jacob is going to the "holding place for the spiritually dead or wicked". Maybe you should reconsider your understanding.

Jacob already went and left. What is the point you are making? There was a great gulf between the two areas of sheol, that you think the KJV translators went out of their way to recognize. Luke 16:26

"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

So how is it inconsistent that they point out this great gulf where ones on one side cannot even enter the other side?

In the OT they all went to the same holding place, and one area was punishment, the other area, the valley of the shadow of death.

At the Cross all the redeemed left their graves. They were given permanent incorruptible physical bodies and ascended to Paradise. Paul called Paradise the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4

"such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, How that he was caught up into paradise,"

The location of the redeemed changed from the OT economy to the NT economy. And no redeemed were left behind in death and the grave. Many quote Job or Ecclesiastes failing to see that at the Cross death changed for the redeemed. The OT no longer applies to those in Christ. Yet so many still hold dear the OT style of death and the grave.

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

"And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

The place was called Abraham's bosom. Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus on the Cross, and he saw it, and was glad. Faith was the comfort of all those redeemed in the grave. The grave was emptied at the Cross, and the OT redeemed left the valley of the shadow of death.

Those who claim Adam's dead flesh is resurrected are still walking down into the valley of the shadow of death in the OT economy. They talk about the NT, but never live the NT. The Cross finished the OT economy. Both the veil was torn and the grave emptied. The last day resurrection was forever tied to the Law being symbolically torn asunder as the veil was removed.

The NT economy is 2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Jesus said:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death."

 

[Freedm]

Jacob already went and left. What is the point you are making?

The point I'm making should be obvious, that the word Sheol does not mean hell, and that most Bible translations, especially the KJV, mislead people by using the word hell.

 

[Freedm]

In the OT they all went to the same holding place, and one area was punishment, the other area, the valley of the shadow of death.

Actually, in the OT they all went to the grave (sheol). In other words, they all died, and they "slept in the earth", without consciousness.

 

[Timtofly]

The point I'm making should be obvious, that the word Sheol does not mean hell, and that most Bible translations, especially the KJV, mislead people by using the word hell.

Then what word should be used besides "hell" or "the grave"? They were two seperate places.

Hell: Old English hel, hell, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch hel and German Hölle, from an Indo-European root meaning ‘to cover or hide’.

Should we rewrite history to change how ancient people used a single word to described the "netherworld"?

 

[Timtofly]

Actually, in the OT they all went to the grave (sheol). In other words, they all died, and they "slept in the earth", without consciousness.

No, some went to the grave, Abraham's bosom. The rest went to a place of torment you can name whatever you like, as it seems you are disgruntled with ancient English and German. Jesus said they were aware. Does Jesus know more than even the wisest man on earth, Solomon, who was given God's wisdom, and then took to himself a thousand wives, and seemed to have lost all that wisdom?

 

[Freedm]

Then what word should be used besides "hell" or "the grave"? They were two seperate places.

Hell: Old English hel, hell, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch hel and German Hölle, from an Indo-European root meaning ‘to cover or hide’.

Should we rewrite history to change how ancient people used a single word to described the "netherworld"?

Grave is the correct word. That's the word that should be used.

 

[Freedm]

No, some went to the grave, Abraham's bosom. The rest went to a place of torment you can name whatever you like, as it seems you are disgruntled with ancient English and German. Jesus said they were aware. Does Jesus know more than even the wisest man on earth, Solomon, who was given God's wisdom, and then took to himself a thousand wives, and seemed to have lost all that wisdom?

Here are 35 examples in scripture that tell us that people go to the grave. The grave is a hole in the ground.

You must always interpret less clear scripture in light of more clear scripture, not the other way around as you're doing. In this case, the more clear scripture is obviously all of these examples I'm listing here, and the less clear scripture is the parable of Luke 16.

You're using the parable as your foundation, and trying to make these clear scriptures fit into your interpretation of it, by saying the grave is Abraham's bosom, but you need a more solid foundation. Therefore, you should be using the more clear scriptures as your foundation, and then try to understand the parable in light of that foundation.

1 Kgs 2:10
So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

1 Kgs 11:21
And when Hadad heard in Egypt that David slept with his fathers, and that Joab the captain of the host was dead, Hadad said to Pharaoh, Let me depart, that I may go to mine own country.

1 Kgs 11:43
And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 14:20
And the days which Jeroboam reigned were two and twenty years: and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 14:31
And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 15:8
And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 15:24
And Asa slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoshaphat his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 16:6
So Baasha slept with his fathers, and was buried in Tirzah: and Elah his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 16:28
So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 22:40
So Ahab slept with his fathers; and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 22:50
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 8:24
And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 10:35
And Jehu slept with his fathers: and they buried him in Samaria. And Jehoahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 13:9
And Jehoahaz slept with his fathers; and they buried him in Samaria: and Joash his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 13:13
And Joash slept with his fathers; and Jeroboam sat upon his throne: and Joash was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel.

2 Kgs 14:16
And Jehoash slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 14:22
He built Elath, and restored it to Judah, after that the king slept with his fathers.

2 Kgs 14:29
And Jeroboam slept with his fathers, even with the kings of Israel; and Zachariah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 15:7
So Azariah slept with his fathers; and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 15:22
And Menahem slept with his fathers; and Pekahiah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 15:38
And Jotham slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Ahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 16:20
And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Hezekiah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 20:21
And Hezekiah slept with his fathers: and Manasseh his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 21:18
And Manasseh slept with his fathers, and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza: and Amon his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 24:6
So Jehoiakim slept with his fathers: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 9:31
And Solomon slept with his fathers, and he was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 12:16
And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David: and Abijah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 14:1
So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.

2 Chron 16:13
And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

2 Chron 21:1
Now Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 26:2
He built Eloth, and restored it to Judah, after that the king slept with his fathers.

2 Chron 26:23
So Uzziah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of the burial which belonged to the kings; for they said, He is a leper: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 27:9
And Jotham slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Ahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 28:27
And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city, even in Jerusalem: but they brought him not into the sepulchres of the kings of Israel: and Hezekiah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 32:33
And Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the chiefest of the sepulchres of the sons of David: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honour at his death. And Manasseh his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 33:20
So Manasseh slept with his fathers, and they buried him in his own house: and Amon his son reigned in his stead.

 

[Jack]

Why in the world Christians buy into the Democrat-Rebublican facade is beyond me. Trump is as guilty as the rest, if not more.

Is Trump pro abortion? I wouldn't believe anything a pro abortion supporter would say! If they would murder babies they wouldn't hesitate to murder Christians, if they thought they could get by with it. If Trump isn't pro abortion that's a BIG PLUS!

 

[Timtofly]

Grave is the correct word. That's the word that should be used.

How do we then know who is punished and who is waiting for redemption?

 

[Timtofly]

Here are 35 examples in scripture that tell us that people go to the grave. The grave is a hole in the ground.

You must always interpret less clear scripture in light of more clear scripture, not the other way around as you're doing. In this case, the more clear scripture is obviously all of these examples I'm listing here, and the less clear scripture is the parable of Luke 16.

You're using the parable as your foundation, and trying to make these clear scriptures fit into your interpretation of it, by saying the grave is Abraham's bosom, but you need a more solid foundation. Therefore, you should be using the more clear scriptures as your foundation, and then try to understand the parable in light of that foundation.

1 Kgs 2:10
So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

1 Kgs 11:21
And when Hadad heard in Egypt that David slept with his fathers, and that Joab the captain of the host was dead, Hadad said to Pharaoh, Let me depart, that I may go to mine own country.

1 Kgs 11:43
And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 14:20
And the days which Jeroboam reigned were two and twenty years: and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 14:31
And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 15:8
And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 15:24
And Asa slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoshaphat his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 16:6
So Baasha slept with his fathers, and was buried in Tirzah: and Elah his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 16:28
So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 22:40
So Ahab slept with his fathers; and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kgs 22:50
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 8:24
And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 10:35
And Jehu slept with his fathers: and they buried him in Samaria. And Jehoahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 13:9
And Jehoahaz slept with his fathers; and they buried him in Samaria: and Joash his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 13:13
And Joash slept with his fathers; and Jeroboam sat upon his throne: and Joash was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel.

2 Kgs 14:16
And Jehoash slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 14:22
He built Elath, and restored it to Judah, after that the king slept with his fathers.

2 Kgs 14:29
And Jeroboam slept with his fathers, even with the kings of Israel; and Zachariah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 15:7
So Azariah slept with his fathers; and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 15:22
And Menahem slept with his fathers; and Pekahiah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 15:38
And Jotham slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Ahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 16:20
And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Hezekiah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 20:21
And Hezekiah slept with his fathers: and Manasseh his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 21:18
And Manasseh slept with his fathers, and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza: and Amon his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kgs 24:6
So Jehoiakim slept with his fathers: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 9:31
And Solomon slept with his fathers, and he was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 12:16
And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David: and Abijah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 14:1
So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.

2 Chron 16:13
And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

2 Chron 21:1
Now Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 26:2
He built Eloth, and restored it to Judah, after that the king slept with his fathers.

2 Chron 26:23
So Uzziah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of the burial which belonged to the kings; for they said, He is a leper: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 27:9
And Jotham slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Ahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 28:27
And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city, even in Jerusalem: but they brought him not into the sepulchres of the kings of Israel: and Hezekiah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 32:33
And Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the chiefest of the sepulchres of the sons of David: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honour at his death. And Manasseh his son reigned in his stead.

2 Chron 33:20
So Manasseh slept with his fathers, and they buried him in his own house: and Amon his son reigned in his stead.

Jesus did not resurrect a parable. The NT is pretty clear on the topic, so stop using obscure OT quotes and move on past the Cross.

 

[Freedm]

How do we then know who is punished and who is waiting for redemption?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Dying is not about punishment or redemption. Dying is just dying, and that is what happened to the people before Jesus took away our sin. People died. They went to the grave. That's it.

 

[Freedm]

Jesus did not resurrect a parable. The NT is pretty clear on the topic, so stop using obscure OT quotes and move on past the Cross.

Huh? I'm not even sure what "resurrect a parable" means. Also, we were talking about the OT and the use of the word Sheol. This conversation started when I said : "Actually, in the OT they all went to the grave (sheol). In other words, they all died, and they "slept in the earth", without consciousness.". And now your response is to tell me to stop using OT quotes? We're literally talking about the OT, so I'm using the OT to prove my point. I'm going to assume, based on your response, that you have no counter point.

 

[ewq1938]

Did you know that the KJV translates the word Sheol as "hell" 31 times, and as "the grave" another 31 times? Why so inconsistent? When the Bible speaks of the wicked dying, they translate Sheol as hell, and I'm sure you can guess the reason for that. Yet when the Bible speaks of the righteous dying, they translate the word Sheol as "the grave".

Grave is used for the wicked too.

Psa 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.

Sheol just means death or where the spirit goes after the body died. It's a generic term. There are two places separated by a large gulf. One place is the good p[lace, one is the bad place.

We commonly call them heaven and hell, but hell being the temporary place not the permanent place. Even heaven is a temporary place if you think about it since Rev described eternity upon the Earth not in heaven.

 

[ewq1938]

The point I'm making should be obvious, that the word Sheol does not mean hell, and that most Bible translations, especially the KJV, mislead people by using the word hell.

You are incorrect. Sheol can mean hell as in hades in the Greek.

Son 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave (sheol): the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.

Deu_32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell (sheol), and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Psa_18:5 The sorrows of hell (sheol) compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

A place of sorrows and fire.

This matches Hell/Hades in the NT.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Dying is not about punishment or redemption. Dying is just dying, and that is what happened to the people before Jesus took away our sin. People died. They went to the grave. That's it.

It's still happening. You implied it stopped but it hasn't.