Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

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CadyandZoe

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Christian baptism is meaningless if one is not baptized by the spiritual baptism performed by God. Because until then, they are still dead in their sin

Christian baptism is an answer o a good conscience towards God. It is an open testimony of an inward faith. But it is no more salvic than any other command God has given.
I see your perspective and understand your point. However, some individuals are unsure if they require water baptism or if they should undergo it again. Some people value the aesthetic praxis of the faith and derive great significance from the act itself. I can envision how emotional it would be for a parent or parents to witness their adolescent child declaring their faith in Jesus Christ while being baptized in front of the entire congregation. Without a doubt, the experience would be incredibly impactful and inspiring.

From the Biblical perspective, baptism was essential to the degree that baptism signified commitment and loyalty to Jesus Christ and the gospel he preached. The initiate declared his or her allegiance as a follower of Jesus, the significance of which is lost if the Holy Spirit did not already baptize the initiate. If public consensus assumes that water baptism is a public confession of faith, then water baptism is essential because Jesus said we should not deny him before men. Under that presupposition, to avoid baptism is to deny Jesus before men.

But in modern times, I wonder if we find a unified public interpretation of baptism today. I don't think so. Baptism means different things to different people. In times past, everyone agreed on the meaning of baptism --- the commitment to a new life under the teaching of the baptizer. At that time, water baptism was essential because everyone understood it to mean that the baptized were making a public confession of Jesus Christ and a pledge to follow Jesus.

Water baptism today is essential only to the degree that the congregation has been taught the true meaning of water baptism. If the common interpretation of baptism is anything other than a pledge to follow Jesus, then we have a problem. Perhaps an individual would like to make a public confession of Jesus and make a pledge to follow him. If so, then perhaps that individual should get baptized for the first time or get baptized again for the right reason.
 

Eternally Grateful

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And your boasting in your knowledge of Koine Greek is plain for all to see as well-as far as I can tell-there are no "scholars" here.
Boasting?

I did not know saying a definition of a word was boasting. Anyone can find it on the internet..or many sources

You just have to research. or you can just live with what you think is true, yet is not true.. based on ignorance of what a word really means
 

Eternally Grateful

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I see your perspective and understand your point. However, some individuals are unsure if they require water baptism or if they should undergo it again. Some people value the aesthetic praxis of the faith and derive great significance from the act itself. I can envision how emotional it would be for a parent or parents to witness their adolescent child declaring their faith in Jesus Christ while being baptized in front of the entire congregation. Without a doubt, the experience would be incredibly impactful and inspiring.

From the Biblical perspective, baptism was essential to the degree that baptism signified commitment and loyalty to Jesus Christ and the gospel he preached. The initiate declared his or her allegiance as a follower of Jesus, the significance of which is lost if the Holy Spirit did not already baptize the initiate. If public consensus assumes that water baptism is a public confession of faith, then water baptism is essential because Jesus said we should not deny him before men. Under that presupposition, to avoid baptism is to deny Jesus before men.

But in modern times, I wonder if we find a unified public interpretation of baptism today. I don't think so. Baptism means different things to different people. In times past, everyone agreed on the meaning of baptism --- the commitment to a new life under the teaching of the baptizer. At that time, water baptism was essential because everyone understood it to mean that the baptized were making a public confession of Jesus Christ and a pledge to follow Jesus.

Water baptism today is essential only to the degree that the congregation has been taught the true meaning of water baptism. If the common interpretation of baptism is anything other than a pledge to follow Jesus, then we have a problem. Perhaps an individual would like to make a public confession of Jesus and make a pledge to follow him. If so, then perhaps that individual should get baptized for the first time or get baptized again for the right reason.
I think if we look at history, we see many of the church used water baptism much like the Jews used circumcision.

The jew said a person must be circumcised to be saved. otherwise they were not saved. it was part of their gospel.

Much in the same way many today say water baptism MUST be completed in order to be saved. if one does not get water baptized, they are not saved.

Paul said it is not the cleansing (circumcision or water baptism) made by the hands of men but the hand of God that saves us..

While I agree, people see the ceremony of water baptism differently. The danger is when it is made part of the salvation process. because once we do this, just like the jew who professed and taught circumcision is part of their salvation process. it becomes a false gospel of works, and is no gospel at all, but a false gospel at best.
 
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CadyandZoe

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What Jesus said to John the Baptist, is not a parable.
I never claimed that it was the case. My aim is to help you understand how to interpret the Bible. For example, in the Old Testament narratives, the author used a specific writing technique to convey information effectively, whether it be Moses or someone else. Often, he would present two accounts one after the other, expecting the reader to gain wisdom from comparing the two stories. The gospel writers do the same thing. The gospel writer records two events in close succession, expecting the reader to draw significant inferences from the comparison.

What do I mean?

Matthew, for instance, records the baptism of Jesus immediately after he records John's word to the Pharisees. In this way, he expects the reader to draw an inference from the two accounts seen together. On the one hand we hear John's warning to the Pharisees about a coming one who would baptize them with fire, and on the other hand we hear the vox dei, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Here, Matthew invites the reader to speculate on the significance of John baptizing Jesus. What did it mean in light of the Pharisaical response to his baptism?
 

CadyandZoe

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I think if we look at history, we see many of the church used water baptism much like the Jews used circumcision.

The jew said a person must be circumcised to be saved. otherwise they were not saved. it was part of their gospel.

Much in the same way many today say water baptism MUST be completed in order to be saved. if one does not get water baptized, they are not saved.

Paul said it is not the cleansing (circumcision or water baptism) made by the hands of men but the hand of God that saves us..

While I agree, people see the ceremony of water baptism differently. The danger is when it is made part of the salvation process. because once we do this, just like the jew who professed and taught circumcision is part of their salvation process. it becomes a false gospel of works, and is no gospel at all, but a false gospel at best.
Good point, especially because Paul often spoke of circumcision of the heart as compared to the briss. Proper inwardness is the main focus of Jesus and the apostles.
 

Behold

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From the Biblical perspective, baptism was essential to the degree that baptism signified commitment and loyalty to Jesus Christ and the gospel he preached.

Yet, before Jesus's ministry showed up Water Baptism was in process.
Whose Gospel was that one, as its not connected to Jesus, or the Bride of Christ.

And consider also, that when Peter was telling those JEWS during Pentecost, to get water baptized, He was connecting John the Baptist (that water baptism) = to The Cross, as "WATER Baptism".

This is why Paul said........"Christ sent me NOT to water baptize".......and that is because the Gospel is not about Water, and Paul was sent to the GENTILES... who would not know the water Baptism of John the Baptist, from a German Alcoholic Beverage.
 

Behold

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I never claimed that it was the case. My aim is to help you understand how to interpret the Bible.

Yet, if you can't do this for yourself, as your teaching in the last few posts, are proving, then you can't help anyone here, in that regard.

Read my last post dealing with John The Baptist's water baptism, as it relates to Acts 2:38
That will help you.
 

DJT_47

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Christian baptism is meaningless if one is not baptized by the spiritual baptism performed by God. Because until then, they are still dead in their sin

Christian baptism is an answer o a good conscience towards God. It is an open testimony of an inward faith. But it is no more salvic than any other command God has given.
What exactly is "the spiritual baptism performed by God" and what specific scripture(s) describes this and how it's done?
 

Grailhunter

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This is where being a historian can help with understanding the Bible and Christianity.

Lets say two friends are in a boat talking about Yeshua….in the 1st century ….and one says to the other, I think we aught to go and get baptized, and the other agrees. Now what do you think was going on in their minds? ….Were they going to get wet or were they going to go somewhere and think about it …. or just think about it in the boat?

The Jews associated baptism with water as a ritual cleaning and there were baths built for that sort of thing.

When John the Baptist was baptizing for the remission of sins he was dunking people in the river Jordan.

When Christ came to him he did not say, Lets think about it. He was baptized in the water. If He felt a need to change things He could have said something then. But no God responded to Him coming out of the water.

When the New Testament mentions Baptism it references water and an urgency to find water.

When Christ told His disciples to go out and baptize people He did not say they had a choice of water or thinking about it.

Certainly thinking about it or sprinkling water on somebody would be easier and faster and there is always the what if questions. And maybe they can bring that up on Judgment Day.

But in this era, even with the Pagans baptized with water. Its just simply understood that baptism is associated with emersion in water. When some one would mention baptism people are not associating it with thinking about it.

Now a days we have the do nothing Christians….Your rightness with God is not about what you do it is about what you do not do….don’t smoke….don’t drink etc. Its not about going to church or giving to the church or helping others. In some respects it has become a lazy man’s religion.

Do you really need to be baptized?
Do you really need to repent?
Do you really need to obey Christ?
Do you really need to go to church?
Do you really need to give to the church?
Do you really need to worship the Lord?

For some denominations baptism does not have any spiritual significance, just a display.

Then there is also the physical / psychological aspect….the person that comes out of that water has had his or her sins removed due to the fact that as far as God is concerned the person that went down in the water never existed. So no matter what you did before, you start out as a Christian with a clean slate so to speak. The devil has nothing to accuse you of or tell you that you are not good enough to be a Christian….so there are a few aspects to the water.

The need for emersion in water has not changed. But the significance of baptism has changed. For the Jews it was about cleaning the outside of the body....For John the Baptist it was for the remission of sins....For Christians it is a new beginning. But always associated with water.

Be good and do good.
 

Eternally Grateful

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What exactly is "the spiritual baptism performed by God" and what specific scripture(s) describes this and how it's done?
it was already explained to you. and the verses were given.

now your just playing games by asking the same questions over and over
 

DJT_47

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Has that knowledge has passed away?
When completeness comes; prophecy, tongues and knowledge will pass away,
What completeness would make knowledge pass away?
When will FULL knowledge appear?

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 NIV
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies,
they will cease; where there are tongues,
they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.I've gone through this a number of times and I thought with you previously, but maybe not. You, like many others, are not understanding what is meant by " completeness" or "perfect" as the kjv reads. It's NOT referencing the return of Christ, and Jesus Christ is NOT referred to as a thing such as "that" would infer, nor is the great day of the Lord not referenced similarly as "that which is perfect". So, what does "completeness" or "perfect" really mean in this passage? Below is a short dissertation this previously posted.
Very difficult subject (spiritual gifts) which is why there's so much controversy, and equally difficult to unravel and explain. But let me explain it this way.​
First, look at the way Paul started his letter to the Corinthians starting at 1 Cor1:10 where he's discussing contentions and divisions in Corinth and the need for unity which sets the stage for the rest of 1 Corinthians.
Also keep in mind, this was written to them in their time, addressing their near term issues, and not to us nor considering some event in the distant future.
And too, keep in mind that the early church was a fledgling body with little to guide and hold it together, and prone to division, contention, and falling away, such as was also warned about in the Hebrew letter as well.
You have to first ask yourself and answer the question as to what is "that which is perfect"?
The aforementioned question and answer to it is found in Ephesians 4:13 wherein it discusses 'till we all come to the unity of the faith unto a perfect man, the perfect man being the perfection of the body of Christ: this being then the previous need for the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts noted in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. We now have the bible to guide us and no longer need the piece meal parts of the body.
The "face to face" and "known as we are known" is relating to the distinction between the old testament readings, and coming to Christ via the New Testament and the comparison to the veil in reading Moses, and we now, they then, being able to look into a glass or mirror and seeing a reflection of Christ as opposed to our own image.
To piece it all together, you must look at the gifts and the logic in, and need for them at that time, all being necessary in the early church to edify it, as well as to grow the church such as by use of tongues, being a sign to unbelievers.
I've posted all the pertinent parts of scriptures from 1 Cor 12, 13, Galatians 3, and Ephesians 4. Look very closely at the similarity of words used and phraseology and piece those similar words and phrases together to get the true picture of their meaning as relates to the subject matter.
1 Corinthians 12:8-31
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
2 Corinthians 3:7-18
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Galatians 3:23-27
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 4:7-16
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.​

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CadyandZoe

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Yet, before Jesus's ministry showed up Water Baptism was in process.
Whose Gospel was that one, as its not connected to Jesus, or the Bride of Christ.

And consider also, that when Peter was telling those JEWS during Pentecost, to get water baptized, He was connecting John the Baptist (that water baptism) = to The Cross, as "WATER Baptism".

This is why Paul said........"Christ sent me NOT to water baptize".......and that is because the Gospel is not about Water, and Paul was sent to the GENTILES... who would not know the water Baptism of John the Baptist, from a German Alcoholic Beverage.
Yes, water baptism was already a Jewish practice before Jesus began his public ministry. In fact, during the time of Jesus, conversion to Judaism began with a baptism ceremony. And I also agree that Peter associated John's baptism with the cross.

That was then. Today the locus of the question is centered on the interpretation of water baptism. The contemporaries of Peter understood what Peter was asking them to do. He was asking them to confess that Jesus was the Christ and to pledge to follow Jesus Christ. But today?

Those living today who interpret baptism the way Peter did should get water baptized. Why would I? (and I did. :) )
 

CadyandZoe

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Yet, if you can't do this for yourself, as your teaching in the last few posts, are proving, then you can't help anyone here, in that regard.

Read my last post dealing with John The Baptist's water baptism, as it relates to Acts 2:38
That will help you.
Yet if you can't understand what I am saying then perhaps I should take a different tack. :)
 

St. SteVen

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We now have the bible to guide us and no longer need the piece meal parts of the body.
Piecemeal parts?

1 Corinthians 12:12; 27-32 NIV
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts,
but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. ...
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers,
then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[a]? Do all interpret?
31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. ...

1 Corinthians 1:7 NIV
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait
for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
 
J

Johann

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@Johann

How far do you take that "imperative"?

Are you Catholic or JW, about it? Do you take it to the extreme and teach that "water washes away your sin", which is teaching that Water saves you?

Are you that far gone into the "water cult" theology?
Do you know what is a Mikveh? Guess not.
IMMERSION IN JEWISH TRADITION
The Jewish laws which had been passed down orally from generation to generation had several things to say about the need for ritual washing, and the most desirable places to do it.[1] There are six different options suggested that satisfy the requirements, starting with pits or cisterns of standing water as acceptable but least desirable, moving up to pits that are refreshed by rainwater as slightly more desirable, then the custom-built ritual bath, or “mikveh” with 40 se’ahs (300 liters) or more of water, then fountains, then flowing waters.
But “living waters” (as found in natural lakes and rivers) which were considered to be the best possible situation.

The Mishnah specifies what makes the water clean or unclean, and expresses a preference for a larger, fresher body of water, “For in it persons may immerse themselves and immerse others”.
So Yochanan immersing people in the “Living waters” of the River Jordan was perfectly within Jewish law and practice at the time.

The Essenes, a strict Jewish sect, were doing it too out in the Judean Desert. But why were Jewish people immersing themselves in water? Is baptism in the Jewish Scriptures? Well, sort of, yes.

RITUAL BATHING IN THE BIBLE
“Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: You shall also make a laver of bronze, with its base also of bronze, for washing. You shall put it between the tabernacle of meeting and the altar. And you shall put water in it, for Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet in water from it. When they go into the tabernacle of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister, to burn an offering made by fire to the LORD, they shall wash with water, lest they die. So they shall wash their hands and their feet, lest they die. And it shall be a statute forever to them– to him and his descendants throughout their generations.” Exod 30:17-21

The priests had to be ritually clean (tahor) in order to serve at the tabernacle, and Israelites who had become ritually unclean (tamay) had to restore their situation with the passing of time and bathing their whole body in fresh, ritually clean (tahor) water, according to Leviticus 15.
Later, when the temple had been built, it was necessary for everyone to be immersed in a mikveh to become ritually clean before entering the temple. There are many ancient mikva’ot (plural of mikveh) to be seen in Jerusalem, and it is clear to see the two sets of steps for each one – a set of steps going down to the mikveh in an impure (tamay) state on one side, and on the other side, steps where the pilgrim will emerge fresh and ritually clean (tahor).

WHAT DID JEWISH BAPTISM LOOK LIKE IN THE TIME OF JESUS?
Following the upheaval of the 1967 war, archaeologists were presented with the opportunity to excavate parts of the upper city of Jerusalem, giving a new window into daily life in ancient times. Many of the houses were grand and spacious, with their own water cisterns and ritual baths in the basements.[2] Some houses were found to have had several of these mikva’ot, since it is thought that as well as providing for the household (which could even be up to fifty people) they would have been able to welcome and host pilgrims arriving for the Jewish feasts, catering for many more. Many of this upper city aristocracy were among the priestly class, who would have to stay in a state of ritual purity as much as possible, and so would have to immerse themselves in a mikveh frequently. Archaeologists also believe that the pools of Siloam and Bethsaida could have been used for ritual bathing in the Second Temple period for those visiting Jerusalem for the high holy days.
So immersion in a mikveh was quite common at the time of Yeshua, but the New Testament also describes baptisms taking place not only in rivers, but in any available body of water. In Acts 8, we read of a visiting pilgrim from Ethiopia, who came to believe in Yeshua as he read Isaiah on the way home:

“As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” (verse 36).

By this point baptism had come to signify a decision to accept Yeshua as Messiah and Lord.


Hey-if it was good enough for the visiting pilgrim-it is good enough for me.

Get yourself baptized-


THE WORD “MIKVEH”
The Hebrew noun for a ritual bath (mikveh) can help us understand a bit more about the Jewish notion of immersion. Often the Hebrew language reveals keys in the Hebrew thought behind the words. The word mikveh shares the same root as the word for hope (tikvah), for line (kav) and alignment, and the concept of hoping or waiting on God (kiviti l’Adonai).
Here is what Strong’s Lexicon has to say about the word:

מִקְוֶה miqveh, mik-veh’;
something waited for, i.e. confidence (objective or subjective);
also a collection, i.e. (of water) a pond, or (of men and horses) a caravan or drove:—
abiding, gathering together, hope, linen yarn, plenty (of water), pool.

and the same root word:

קָוָה qâvâh, kaw-vaw’;
to bind together (perhaps by twisting), i.e. collect; (figuratively) to expect:—gather (together), look, patiently, tarry, wait (for, on, upon).

The ideas of binding together, or twisting together, of yarn, gives us a good mental picture of what it means to align ourselves with God, and wait for him. We gather ourselves and bind ourselves to his word and to him, we line ourselves up with him, and wait for him in confidence and hope. When you read that the Psalmist says he waits upon the Lord, this is usually the word he is using.
The linked concepts of mikvah (collected pool of water) and tikvah (hope, confidence) are played out beautifully in Jeremiah 17:5-6, where the prophet poetically expresses the ideas through the metaphor of trees either rooted and flourishing beside water when we trust in God, or drying up for the lack of water when we put our trust in man. A few verses later, Jeremiah summarises:

Lord, you are the hope (mikveh) of Israel; all who forsake you will be ashamed (or dried out).
Those who turn away from you will be written in the dust because they have forsaken the Lord, the spring of living water.

This is a word play – the text actually says “The Lord is the MIKVEH of Israel, and all who forsake him will be ashamed or dried out!” So it makes more sense now that Jeremiah continues, to say that when we turn away from this mikveh of water and hope, we will be ashamed, which can also be translated “dried out”. Through this word play, Jeremiah deliberately points us back to the analogy of the man who trusts in God being like a tree beside plenty of water, and the one who leaves God ending up in dry, dusty shame.
A “Mikveh” of living water represents the bounty and resources of the new life that we can enjoy in God. Those who put their hope in God, choosing to align their lives with him, will never be dried out, but will always have fresh life in him.
Next time you see someone being immersed in water to signify their new life in Yeshua, the hope of Israel, the mikveh of Israel, call to mind all that he said about being the water of life, the well of living water that springs up to eternal life… because that’s exactly who He is!

[1] Tractate Mivaoth, Babylonian Talmud, Mishnah 1-8

There are six degrees of gatherings of water, each superior to the other.
The water of pits… The same rules apply to the water of pits, the water of cisterns, the water of ditches, the water of caverns, the water of rain drippings which have stopped, and mikwehs of less than forty se’ahs: they are all clean during the time of rain; when the rain has stopped those near to a city or to a road are unclean, and those distant remain clean until the majority of people pass [that way].
Superior to such [water] is the water of rain drippings which have not stopped.
Superior to such [water] is [the water of] the mikveh containing forty se’ahs, for in it persons may immerse themselves and immerse others.
Superior again is [the water of] a fountain whose own water is little but has been increased by a greater quantity of drawn water; it is equivalent to the mikveh inasmuch as it may render clean by standing water, and to an [ordinary] fountain in as much as one may immerse in it whatever the quantity of its contents.
Superior again are ‘smitten waters’ which can render clean even when flowing.
Superior again are ‘living waters’ which serve for the immersion of persons who have a running issue and for the sprinkling of lepers, and are valid for the preparation of the water of purification.

[2] Jerusalem Archeological Park / The Antiques Authority website: www.archpark.org.il
Levine Lee I., Jerusalem: Portrait of the City in the Second Temple Period (538 B.C.E. – 70 C.E.), Jewish Publication Society, 2002
Photo by Sime Basioli on Unsplash
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CadyandZoe

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Pretending that you are teaching accurate theology, does not make it true.
Pretending that I am not teaching accurately doesn't make it false.
You dont need a different, tack, you need a different theology.

You recall that i showed you Jesus's words, to John the Bptst?

Your response was to try to connect the literal words of Christ as He's explaining what He's doing in the water, to some parable.
What's wrong with that?
So, that's not a "tack" issue you have, its a theology issue.
How does your theology differ from mine?
 
J

Johann

Guest
Are you that far gone into the "water cult" theology?
Take care how you promulgate what stands written-@Behold-

The Long Version
Let’s begin by approaching baptism broadly, in terms of its importance for any believer.

First, baptism is important because it is a command that all who have placed their faith and trust in Jesus Christ should obey. It is one of the two ordinances of the church instituted by our Lord in the New Testament (Baptism and the Lord’s Table, or Communion).

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:18-20).

38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

It is assumed in the New Testament that one who puts their faith in Jesus will be baptized. Almost every instance of one coming to faith in the Book of Acts is accompanied by the report of their being baptized (Acts 2:41; 8:12, 36; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:14-15, 28-34; 18:8; 19:2-6).

Second, baptism is important because it is the believer’s public testimony to others that he or she has trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation. We are saved by the Spirit’s work of identifying us with the person and work of Jesus Christ. Once saved, we declare our identification with Christ by baptism. (I remember years ago when a young child said it was “being advertised” [see Mark 8:38; 1 Thessalonians 1:6-10]).

Third, baptism is the believer’s symbolic proclamation of the gospel to those who witness their baptism. The work of the Holy Spirit in salvation is not visible to the human eye (John 3:7-8). Water baptism symbolizes what has taken place in Spirit Baptism, wherein the Holy Spirit unites the believer with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension in their place. By faith in Christ the believer dies to sin and to its penalty and power. In Christ they are raised to new life. Thus, a believer is obligated to die to sin and to live in righteousness, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Summing it all up, this is what salvation is all about:

the recognition of our sin, and of our helplessness to rid ourselves of the judgment it requires,
our recognition that only Jesus lived a sinless life, which qualified Him to die in the sinner’s place (He did not need to die for His own sin, since He was sinless – John 8:46; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 7:25-27; 1 Peter 1:18-19)
Jesus died and then rose again in our place,
And by doing this He bore the penalty for our sins, and broke the power of sin and Satan (Colossians 2:8-15)
He sent His Spirit, Who gave us new life and now provides us with the ability to live a new and holy life (all of this is summed up in Romans 1-8).
Fourth, baptism is important because it is the believer’s public commitment to leave behind their old way of life that they once practiced (Ephesians 2:1-3), and to take on a whole new life in Christ (Ephesians 2:4 and following). It is the understanding that faith in Christ, of necessity, involves a radical change in the way one thinks and acts as a Christian. It must be emphasized here that this “new life” is not a “work” which the believer does to earn God’s favor; it is God’s work in and through the believer, so that He receives the glory:

4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).

1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect (Romans 12:1-2).

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ (Galatians 3:27).

17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth (Ephesians 4:17-24).

5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him— 11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. 12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity (Colossians 3:5-14).

1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 “BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. 8 “BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT” (Romans 4:1-8).

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6).

12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:12-13).

Fifth, water baptism is a symbolic act which thus depicts a greater baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit that unites us with Christ, and thereby saves us.

“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Matthew 3:11).

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).

3 For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:3-7).

Sixth, water baptism is not something we do to complete God’s saving action in Jesus Christ. Let me put it this way, “Baptism is not essential in order to obtain salvation; it is essential for those who have, by the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit, received salvation. Baptism, like any other good work (see Ephesians 2:10), is the fruit of our salvation, and not its root.

Q. How Important is Baptism? (with handicap)
I am a 2 time stroke survivor. My son introduced me to Christ several years ago. He explained to me that water baptism would complete my connection to Christ. I currently can no longer stand nor walk. Can someone wheel me in my wheelchair into the water or perhaps someone who has great in Christ faith is permitted to carry me into the water? Time is running out for me.


Sincerely,

********,
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Take care how you promulgate what stands written-@Behold-

The Long Version
Let’s begin by approaching baptism broadly, in terms of its importance for any believer.

First, baptism is important because it is a command that all who have placed their faith and trust in Jesus Christ should obey. It is one of the two ordinances of the church instituted by our Lord in the New Testament (Baptism and the Lord’s Table, or Communion).

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:18-20).

38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

It is assumed in the New Testament that one who puts their faith in Jesus will be baptized. Almost every instance of one coming to faith in the Book of Acts is accompanied by the report of their being baptized (Acts 2:41; 8:12, 36; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:14-15, 28-34; 18:8; 19:2-6).

Second, baptism is important because it is the believer’s public testimony to others that he or she has trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation. We are saved by the Spirit’s work of identifying us with the person and work of Jesus Christ. Once saved, we declare our identification with Christ by baptism. (I remember years ago when a young child said it was “being advertised” [see Mark 8:38; 1 Thessalonians 1:6-10]).

Third, baptism is the believer’s symbolic proclamation of the gospel to those who witness their baptism. The work of the Holy Spirit in salvation is not visible to the human eye (John 3:7-8). Water baptism symbolizes what has taken place in Spirit Baptism, wherein the Holy Spirit unites the believer with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension in their place. By faith in Christ the believer dies to sin and to its penalty and power. In Christ they are raised to new life. Thus, a believer is obligated to die to sin and to live in righteousness, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Summing it all up, this is what salvation is all about:

the recognition of our sin, and of our helplessness to rid ourselves of the judgment it requires,
our recognition that only Jesus lived a sinless life, which qualified Him to die in the sinner’s place (He did not need to die for His own sin, since He was sinless – John 8:46; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 7:25-27; 1 Peter 1:18-19)
Jesus died and then rose again in our place,
And by doing this He bore the penalty for our sins, and broke the power of sin and Satan (Colossians 2:8-15)
He sent His Spirit, Who gave us new life and now provides us with the ability to live a new and holy life (all of this is summed up in Romans 1-8).
Fourth, baptism is important because it is the believer’s public commitment to leave behind their old way of life that they once practiced (Ephesians 2:1-3), and to take on a whole new life in Christ (Ephesians 2:4 and following). It is the understanding that faith in Christ, of necessity, involves a radical change in the way one thinks and acts as a Christian. It must be emphasized here that this “new life” is not a “work” which the believer does to earn God’s favor; it is God’s work in and through the believer, so that He receives the glory:

4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).

1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect (Romans 12:1-2).

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ (Galatians 3:27).

17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth (Ephesians 4:17-24).

5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him— 11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. 12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity (Colossians 3:5-14).

1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 “BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. 8 “BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT” (Romans 4:1-8).

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6).

12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:12-13).

Fifth, water baptism is a symbolic act which thus depicts a greater baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit that unites us with Christ, and thereby saves us.

“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Matthew 3:11).

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).

3 For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:3-7).

Sixth, water baptism is not something we do to complete God’s saving action in Jesus Christ. Let me put it this way, “Baptism is not essential in order to obtain salvation; it is essential for those who have, by the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit, received salvation. Baptism, like any other good work (see Ephesians 2:10), is the fruit of our salvation, and not its root.

Q. How Important is Baptism? (with handicap)
I am a 2 time stroke survivor. My son introduced me to Christ several years ago. He explained to me that water baptism would complete my connection to Christ. I currently can no longer stand nor walk. Can someone wheel me in my wheelchair into the water or perhaps someone who has great in Christ faith is permitted to carry me into the water? Time is running out for me.


Sincerely,
********,
My ex sister in law, who passed away 20 years ago. Was never water baptized due to a medical condition.

She received Christ and called out for Jesus to save her

is she in heaven today?
 
J

Johann

Guest
My ex sister in law, who passed away 20 years ago. Was never water baptized due to a medical condition.

She received Christ and called out for Jesus to save her

is she in heaven today?
I am a 2 time stroke survivor. My son introduced me to Christ several years ago. He explained to me that water baptism would complete my connection to Christ. I currently can no longer stand nor walk. Can someone wheel me in my wheelchair into the water or perhaps someone who has great in Christ faith is permitted to carry me into the water? Time is running out for me.

Sincerely,
********,

Who would hinder such a person? By saying "no need for water baptism?"
As to you ex sister in law-I am not Jesus. My dear wife passed on to be with Christ Jesus a couple of years ago-and I KNOW she was saved.
J.