Will Trump seek asylum in Israel and Build the 3rd Temple?

[Freedm]

That is not what I think. That is how your interpretation reads.

You have the falling away happening in the middle of the Day of the Lord. Paul claims it happens prior to the start of the Day of the Lord.

The falling away and the beast happens before the Day of the Lord can even start. The Second Coming is not the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming is to prepare for the Day of the Lord.

Isn't it possible that the day of the Lord is literally one day? Why do you insist it spans a thousand years?

 

[Timtofly]

I know your question was not to me, but I just want to add the following, for the sake of interest.

1 Thess 4:17 says that we will join the Lord in the air, but the usage of the word here that is translated as "air" is interesting, because according to Strong's it refers to the air specifically down here, near the ground, where we walk and breathe, as opposed to the air higher up in the atmosphere. Also, this word sometimes denotes a "hazy, obscure atmosphere", which could be a reference to the unclean world we live in, or Paul lived in, before Jesus' return.

And I realize, that in our culture, in our modern day, when we say "in the air" it conveys an image of being off the ground, but I think Paul didn't mean it that way. I think Paul might've been saying that the Lord will join us down here in the air that we breathe. In other words, literally down here where we are. This makes a lot of sense from the perspective of someone who believes that the Lord is literally with us today, down here where we breathe, meaning we don't have to go to heaven to be with the Lord because he is already with us.

Here's Strong's reference

STRONGS NT 109: ἀήρ​

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ἀήρ, ἀέρος, ὁ (ἄημι, ἄω (cf. ἄνεμος, at the beginning)), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Homer, Iliad 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts 22:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; Revelation 9:2; Revelation 16:17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Ephesians 2:2 signifies 'the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air,' i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Meyer at the passage; (B. D. American edition under the word ; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139f)). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Homer, Iliad 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polybius 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv, to σκότος — the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Ephesians, the passage cited ἀέρα δέρειν, (cf.verberat ictibus auras, Vergil Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Corinthians 9:26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) 'to speak into the air' i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Corinthians 14:9.​

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Paradise is closer than you think. The third heaven may not be in the firmament where the stars are, but closer. We cannot see current reality because of spiritual blindness. So us dead humans make stuff up. Such as a 14 billion year old universe. There was once water above the firmament. That water did not travel far to reach the earth.

 

[Freedm]

That is not what I think. That is how your interpretation reads.

You have the falling away happening in the middle of the Day of the Lord. Paul claims it happens prior to the start of the Day of the Lord.

The falling away and the beast happens before the Day of the Lord can even start. The Second Coming is not the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming is to prepare for the Day of the Lord.

My interpretation does not read that way. My interpretation is that Paul was speaking of the events of 70 AD, which is obviously many years after the baptism of Jesus. Not sure why you think my timeline doesn't work. Feel free to explain.

 

[Freedm]

Paradise is closer than you think. The third heaven may not be in the firmament where the stars are, but closer. We cannot see current reality because of spiritual blindness. So us dead humans make stuff up. Such as a 14 billion year old universe. There was once water above the firmament. That water did not travel far to reach the earth.

Are you suggesting that paradise is at ground level, where we walk and breathe, but in a different dimension?

 

[Timtofly]

And how would that be, Timtofly? I mean, that's really a rhetorical question, but feel free to answer. No, I'm quite clear on the pre-mill view (in all its variations). I would be interested to know how you think I misrepresent it, though. I don't intentionally misrepresent anything, and am open to that possibility regarding the pre-mill view.


Well, I agree. Okay, so you mean it in the sense of an age... yes, I'm good with that, I've always been good with that. This is 2023 A.D., sure, Anno Domini, in the year of our Lord. In your pre-tribulational view, though, you believe that Day, that age, is still future only, and I, of course, disagree with that. But yes, the Day of the Lord in the sense of an age... as in the age of the Gentiles and the church Age, the tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble, the time in which the fullness of the Gentiles is brought in and then the partial hardening is removed and thus all of Israel is saved ~ the age in which God is currently building His temple, in the words of Paul in Ephesians 2... sure, I'm in full agreement with that. What I don't agree with you on is what you and all variations of pre-millennialists think the true nature of the Millennial Kingdom is and when it takes place. Rhetorically (again), I would ask any pre-millennialist, "Who is your King? Do you have one? Like, now?" :)

Aside from that, there is a sense in which the Day of the Lord is a singular day, though, the day of His return. As Paul says, God will ~ future tense ~ His good work in us to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6).


No. I don't see how you could get such a thing from what I wrote. But I guess I'm not surprised.


LOL! See above.

Grace and peace to you.

Because there are only 2 Days of the Lord. The middle 6 days were about dead corruptible human flesh, not the Lord.

6 days shalt thou labor. That is about fallen humanity. But the 7th, that is about the Lord.

It is not just about ages, unless that is how you create your own dispensations. Amil have declared two dispensations. Now and Later.

How do you get only two ages from a command that tells you to remember something? How can you remember something that has not happened yet? Well refusing to see the commandment as being prophetic is one way. Yet the New Testament declares the Day of the Lord is still future. The Day of the Lord is not eternity. Nor is it 24 hours. Neither point found in Scripture. 2 Peter 3 explains the Day of the Lord. Most just think we need to be told God is patient. Well Amil will just have to learn patience waiting for the next 1,000 years to end, which they will pretend is not happening the whole time.

The Day of the Lord is not 24 hours of judgment.

"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work."

Not that work will be over. But labor from the punishment of sin and death, will cease. 6 days of punishment and death. So the Day of the Lord is not about wrath and judgment. It is about freedom and enjoying life as God intended.

Humans cannot jump start the Day of the Lord. Only God can bring about the Day of the Lord. It will be like a thief in the night, when not many will be prepared.

 

[Timtofly]

No. I don't see how you could get such a thing from what I wrote. But I guess I'm not surprised.

You equated this event as a type for the Second Coming.

You're not alone in thinking that, certainly. :) In response to what you say, I would ask, where does it say anything about us leaving, or going anywhere for any length of time, about the Lord taking us anywhere or removing us? Well, it doesn't say anything of the sort, but only really that we go out to meet Him. I say ~ as would any good Amillinnialist ~ that it's a going out to meet Him, to welcome Him and to join Him in His return... as loyal subjects of royalty do, and to announce/proclaim His return, as is the case elsewhere in Scripture, the greatest and most relevant example being Jesus's entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday a few days before His crucifixion, which is a foreshadowing of Jesus's final return:

"This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, 'Say to the daughter of Zion, "Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden."' The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and He sat on them. Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. And the crowds that went before Him and that followed Him were shouting, 'Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!' And when He entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, 'Who is this?' And the crowds said, 'This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee.'”​

[Matthew 21:4:-11]​

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"And (the disciples) brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it, and He sat on it. And many spread their cloaks on the road, and others spread leafy branches that they had cut from the fields. And those who went before and those who followed were shouting, 'Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David! Hosanna in the highest!' And He entered Jerusalem and went into the temple."​

[Mark 11:7-11]​

"And (the disciples) brought it to Jesus, and throwing their cloaks on the colt, they set Jesus on it. And as He rode along, they spread their cloaks on the road. As He was drawing near ~ already on the way down the Mount of Olives ~ the whole multitude of His disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen, saying, 'Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!' And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, rebuke your disciples.' He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”​

[Luke 19:35-40]​

"The next day the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, crying out, 'Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!' And Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it, just as it is written, 'Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your king is coming, sitting on a donkey’s colt!'”​

[John 12:12-15]​

This time, however, He will not be sitting on a donkey's colt... :) He will be coming not in humility but in triumph. We will not be going anywhere (unlike unbelievers), much less be "removed" from anything.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

Yet you conclude that the Millennium then followed that event in the first century.

Obviously Pre-mill state the Second Coming precedes the Day of the Lord, not the first coming where Jesus rode into Jerusalem as their king.

 

[Timtofly]

My interpretation does not read that way. My interpretation is that Paul was speaking of the events of 70 AD, which is obviously many years after the baptism of Jesus. Not sure why you think my timeline doesn't work. Feel free to explain.

Most claim the Day of the Lord started at the Cross. You just postpone that to 70AD. Did the church start after 70AD? Did the Gospel have to wait until punishment rendered on the apostate Jews? That is why there is the point, that your judgment is in the middle of, as the Gospel was already spreading around the world before 70AD.

You asked why the Day of the Lord is not 24 hours nor judgment.

The Day of the Lord is entering into God's rest, where sin and death no longer exist as punishment. Neither will Adam's dead corruptible flesh. I hope that sin stops longer than for just 24 hours. Even the period of judgment is longer than 24 hours. 5 months is mentioned in the 5th Trumpet.

"And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months:"

How do you fit 5 months into a 24 hour period of time?

 

[Timtofly]

Are you suggesting that paradise is at ground level, where we walk and breathe, but in a different dimension?

No. The air is where we meet between Paradise and the earth. You are putting a limit to that space between Paradise and the earth.

You claim we are not caught up. Certainly we are not rubbing shoulders with those on the earth. The air is still up.

 

[PinSeeker]

Because there are only 2 Days of the Lord. The middle 6 days were about dead corruptible human flesh, not the Lord.

So there are eight days of the week in your world, Timtofly? :)

6 days shalt thou labor. That is about fallen humanity. But the 7th, that is about the Lord.

This is the Sabbath Day, Timtofly. Which we now refer to as the Lord's day. And we are commanded to keep, thereby keeping it holy. This would be Commandment four.

It is not just about ages, unless that is how you create your own dispensations.

There are no "dispensations," Timtofly. God is unchanging.

Amil have declared two dispensations. Now and Later.

Well no, but there is now, and there is later... This is what we call linear time... LOL! Which we are in, of course, but God is outside of, the Potentate of (the Ruler of), as the hymn goes... Goodness gracious. There is, however, both a "now" aspect and a "not-yet" aspect of/to the Gospel, and the Kingdom. It is here now, but not yet in its fullness; when Jesus returns, He will usher in the Kingdom in its fullness, but for now, we can only live as if it were... because of the Holy Spirit's presence with us and because Jesus's return in a certainty.

How do you get only two ages from a command that tells you to remember something?

I don't get two "ages" from anything, Timtofly. I'm glad that we agree on Commandment four, though.

How can you remember something that has not happened yet?

So, the Sabbath Day, now the Lord's Day, as I said before, hasn't happened yet, Timtofly? Even though it, you know, comes on the first day of the week now, not the seventh, since Christ's resurrection ~ every week? Now, there is the eternal Sabbath, which is still yet to come; you seem to be conflating the two. But again, the way your mind works is... well, quite befuddling. And exhausting, really. LOL!

Well refusing to see the commandment as being prophetic is one way.

Ah! Well, see directly above. I wouldn't exactly say "prophetic," but what we have now is a foretaste of what we will have in glory, sure, and yes, there is both a temporal (lesser) and an eternal (greater) application, which is true of a great many things in the Bible.

Yet the New Testament declares the Day of the Lord is still future.

Well, maybe; it depends on what your context regarding the Day of the Lord is, and, with all due respect, I'm through trying to figure out, from your garbled "explanations," what that context is. It seems to be a moving target... :)

Well Amil will just have to learn patience waiting for the next 1,000 years to end, which they will pretend is not happening the whole time.

Oh... it's happening... LOL! And it is hard to be patient, to wait on the Lord. And yes, it may be another 1,000 years before the millennium ends... but perhaps not. :) Come , Lord Jesus! (Revelation 22:20) :)

...the Day of the Lord is not about wrath and judgment. It is about freedom and enjoying life as God intended.

Peter is clearly referring to a specific day in the future ~ the day when Christ returns ~ when he writes, in 2 Peter 3:10, "the day of the Lord will come like a thief..." And He will sit in judgment on that day. Many will be resurrected to eternal life (John 5:28-29), and then, yes, in glory, we will finally have... "freedom and enjoying life" as God intended. This is the eternal Sabbath, the promised rest, and it will have no end.

Humans cannot jump start the Day of the Lord. Only God can bring about the Day of the Lord. It will be like a thief in the night, when not many will be prepared.

Agreed.

You equated this event as a type for the Second Coming.

I did no such thing. But it is, in a small way, really, indicative of what our "going out to meet Him" when he returns will look like... just the principle, really. There are other lesser examples of loyal subjects going out to greet royalty the royal one's return, like when Saul had defeated the Ammonites in 1 Samuel 11, and he returned from battle victorious, and the people went out to meet him and went with him to Gilgal, where they "made Saul king before the LORD in Gilgal" and "rejoiced greatly." We will welcome Him with exceeding joy. So what I said, in that particular instance, was about us, His Church. Not that the Second Coming will be about us, but surely you get the point.... although it's certainly possible that you will twist that somehow, too... :)

Yet you conclude that the Millennium then followed that event in the first century.

No, actually, I "conclude" that the millennium, as it is called in Revelation 20, began at the first advent of Christ. Christ was born King of Israel (God's Israel; His kingdom is not of this world, as He said to Pontius Pilot three decades hence). And Christ proclaimed it at the beginning of His public ministry, documented by Matthew and Luke, respectively, in Matthew 4 and Luke 4.

Obviously Pre-mill state the Second Coming precedes the Day of the Lord, not the first coming where Jesus rode into Jerusalem as their king.

Ah, so you are equating the Day of the Lord with the millennium of Revelation 20, a literal 1,000 year period after His second coming... at least for now... :) Yes, I have always understood what you... unfortunately... believe on this. :)

I'm not sure I understand this garbled statement though. Are you saying that I (or "Amills") believe His Second Coming precedes the first coming? Because that's what you seem to be saying, and... yeah, that's a head-scratcher... :) And on top of that, are you saying that I (or "Amills") believe the first coming is His entry into Jerusalem on a donkey when He was 33 years old? Because that's the way, again, your garbled statement reads, and again, yeah, that's also a head-scratcher... :)

This has been quite... "interesting"... LOL!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ScottA]

Since Trump will probably have roughly 40 to 50 indictments against him in the lost-it's-way USA, will he simply renounce his US citizenship and seek asylum in Israel where he has a high approval rating? Israel even has billboards with Trump's image. He could then run for Prime Minister. And, since he is a builder, and has greatly wanted to be the mastermind behind a peace deal of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, e.g., Abraham Accords, he could then be the one to negotiate an agreement to have the 3rd Temple built. Is it possible? Remember, Trump pulled off the impossible in 2016, and then with the historic Abraham Accords.

In the USA, the entire system is rigged and doing everything to stop him. Accordingly, there seems no possible way for Trump to escape all of these indictments. He would be found guilty of at least a few of them, and most likely facing jail time. He could negotiate with prosecutors to renounce his citizenship and then seek asylum in Israel.

Full disclosure: I am not a Trump supporter, just an observant. I voted for him in 2016. I did not vote for anyone in 2020. He's certainly better than what we have now, but that isn't saying much.

No...but he is taking part in other prophecy, namely, the dividing of the sheep from the goats and the gathering of the wheat and tares...make straight the way of the Lord.

 

[Freedm]

The Day of the Lord is not eternity. Nor is it 24 hours. Neither point found in Scripture. 2 Peter 3 explains the Day of the Lord.

2 Peter 3 is not saying that the day of the lord is a thousand years. Peter is simply telling the people to be patient, because the Lord doesn't see time the same way we do. He never said the day of the Lord is a thousand years. If that's what you get out of that passage, then you also have to believe that a thousand years is a day. So then, do you believe that the saints reign with Christ for just one day? Of course not. That's absurd.

 

[Freedm]

No. The air is where we meet between Paradise and the earth. You are putting a limit to that space between Paradise and the earth.

You claim we are not caught up. Certainly we are not rubbing shoulders with those on the earth. The air is still up.

Yes, I'm claiming we are not caught up. I believe the passage is saying that we join the others, not in literal clouds, but in life and in the glory of God. They were raised to life, and then we were raised to life also. That's how we joined them. Clouds are symbolic for God's glory, so we are joining them in God's glory.

Scripture tends to be much more symbolic than literal.

 

[Freedm]

Most claim the Day of the Lord started at the Cross. You just postpone that to 70AD. Did the church start after 70AD? Did the Gospel have to wait until punishment rendered on the apostate Jews? That is why there is the point, that your judgment is in the middle of, as the Gospel was already spreading around the world before 70AD.

You asked why the Day of the Lord is not 24 hours nor judgment.

The Day of the Lord is entering into God's rest, where sin and death no longer exist as punishment. Neither will Adam's dead corruptible flesh. I hope that sin stops longer than for just 24 hours. Even the period of judgment is longer than 24 hours. 5 months is mentioned in the 5th Trumpet.

"And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months:"

How do you fit 5 months into a 24 hour period of time?

But the day of the Lord is simply the day that he rejoins with humanity, restoring all things as the way they were intended. There's no requirement that the day of the Lord span any length of time, because it signifies merely the beginning of a new age. So I'm still not clear why you insist that it has to span a length of time. Is there a scripture verse that requires this?

 

[07-07-07]

Persian King Cyrus [gentile] allowed for the building of the 2nd Temple. Prime Minster Netanyahu likened Trump [gentile] to King Cyrus in the Oval Office.

 

[ewq1938]

Scripture tends to be much more symbolic than literal.

No it isn't. NT scripture is mostly the real and literal events of the lives of Jesus and the disciples.

 

[Freedm]

S

No it isn't. NT scripture is mostly the real and literal events of the lives of Jesus and the disciples.

Sure, but the gospels also use a lot of symbolic language. It's good practice to read things as both literal and symbolic before you can determine which makes more sense. Often the symbolic makes more sense.

 

[ewq1938]

S

Sure, but the gospels also use a lot of symbolic language.

They are almost entirely composed of literal language.

It's good practice to read things as both literal and symbolic before you can determine which makes more sense. Often the symbolic makes more sense.

Symbolism is easy to identify. It is not good practice to potentially symbolize the literal because that changes what a text will be conveying.

 

[Freedm]

They are almost entirely composed of literal language.

Except where they use symbolic language.

 

[ewq1938]

Except where they use symbolic language.

Which would be a minority of the text.

 

[Davy]

Since Trump will probably have roughly 40 to 50 indictments against him in the lost-it's-way USA, will he simply renounce his US citizenship and seek asylum in Israel where he has a high approval rating? Israel even has billboards with Trump's image. He could then run for Prime Minister. And, since he is a builder, and has greatly wanted to be the mastermind behind a peace deal of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, e.g., Abraham Accords, he could then be the one to negotiate an agreement to have the 3rd Temple built. Is it possible? Remember, Trump pulled off the impossible in 2016, and then with the historic Abraham Accords.

In the USA, the entire system is rigged and doing everything to stop him. Accordingly, there seems no possible way for Trump to escape all of these indictments. He would be found guilty of at least a few of them, and most likely facing jail time. He could negotiate with prosecutors to renounce his citizenship and then seek asylum in Israel.

Full disclosure: I am not a Trump supporter, just an observant. I voted for him in 2016. I did not vote for anyone in 2020. He's certainly better than what we have now, but that isn't saying much.

HILARIOUS!

You obviously need to turn your TV off for a while and stop listening to the media pundents who try to act like judges, but in reality have NO authority to judge the truth at all! In time we will likely see many of those lawyers pushing those false indictments against Trump get barred from law practice, or worse. Not one indictment has been proven.