Does Christian Universalism sidestep the justice of God?

[St. SteVen]

The Person Who spoke of the eternal punishment of the unbelieving lost, the most in the Bible, with clear warnings, is God Incarnate, The Lord Jesus Christ.

This assumes that those who translated our Bible didn't cook the books.
Have you seen this? Which of the three is "God's Word"?

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Consider this.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

The verse that you quote, is very clear on the "duration" of the punishment for the wicked lost

"καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον, οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον" (Matthew 25:46)

The literal translation in English is: "and go away these into punishment eternal; but the Righteous into life eternal"

Here we have the Greek adjective, "αἰώνιος" used twice, once for the unrighteous, and the other for the righteous. This verses in the passage and context, is written in contrast. The meaning and duration of "αἰώνιος", in BOTH places, is EXACTLY THE SAME. The Righteous, without any doubt as Testified many times in the Bible, will spend ETERNITY with God in Heaven. The meaning being, "times without any end", with no limitations. This is the SAME meaning of "αἰώνιος", when it is used for the unrighteous. No distinction can be made here, other than for ones own personal beliefs!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The definition of a cosmic tyrant. I object.

Object all you like, it matters ZERO with the Just God of the Holy Bible, Who is NOT accountable to you or any other!

His Eternal Word in the Holy Bible stands!

 

[St. SteVen]

the reality of the destination of ALL those who reject Him as the ONLY Saviour, and refuse to repent of their sins and believe in the Gospel of Him.

This assumes that everyone had a chance to "reject Him".
Not so.

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Wasn't sure what rating to give you on that. I agreed as much as I disagreed. - LOL

may I ask what "christian" you are? JW?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

This assumes that everyone had a chance to "reject Him".
Not so.

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever.

lets put is this simple way

There will not be even ONE person in hell, who is not meant to be there; nor in heaven!

The God of the Holy Bible is 100% JUST in ALL that He does!

IF He does CHOOSE to destroy the entire universe by fire or any other means, He is TOTALLY JUST in doing so!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever

The God of the Bible FULLY KNOWS those who would reject or accept His Gospel Message, even before they are born. And He will make sure that ALL who would accept the Gospel, would hear it for their salvation. You cannot place any limits on what God is able to do!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

No, I don't. It is one of the very worst suppositions made by bad apologists.

It certainly was a reason I rejected Christainity for decades.

The ETERNAL CONSCIOUS PUNISHMENT of the unbelieving lost, is 100% Taught in the Holy Bible, and matters ZERO if it is not accepted by anyone.

It is like Holy Trinity, that God is Three Distinct Person in One Eternal Godhead. This is 100% Bible TRUTH, and matters ZERO if it is denied by those deceived by the devil!

 

[St. SteVen]

The literal translation in English is: "and go away these into punishment eternal; but the Righteous into life eternal"

It's a mistranslation.
That's the whole point of my post.
The same word is used in these scriptures. Do they mean the same thing? (nope)

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

 

[St. SteVen]

The God of the Bible FULLY KNOWS those who would reject or accept His Gospel Message, even before they are born. And He will make sure that ALL who would accept the Gospel, would hear it for their salvation.

So, with forethought an intention he predestined the vast majority to eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape.
Sounds criminal on a cosmic level.

You cannot place any limits on what God is able to do!

That's exactly what you just did.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

It's a mistranslation.
That's the whole point of my post.
The same word is used in these scriptures. Do they mean the same thing? (nope)

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

your reasoning is FAULTY!

The SAME Greek adjective, "αἰώνιος", is used for BOTH the Righteous and unrighteous, one in Heaven with God, the other in hell with the devil. The MEANING in BOTH places is EXACT!

 

[St. SteVen]

The ETERNAL CONSCIOUS PUNISHMENT of the unbelieving lost, is 100% Taught in the Holy Bible, and matters ZERO if it is not accepted by anyone.

It is like Holy Trinity, that God is Three Distinct Person in One Eternal Godhead. This is 100% Bible TRUTH, and matters ZERO if it is denied by those deceived by the devil!

If that true, then there should be no argument from you.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

So, with forethought an intention he predestined the vast majority to eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape

you clearly do NOT understand the Gospel Message of the Holy Bible!

The ONLY HOPE in escaping eternal punishment in hell, is by REPENTING of your sins and BELIEVING in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as is clear in Mark 1:15, and elsewhere.

ALL sinners be their DISBELIEF will send themselves to hell!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

If that true, then there should be no argument from you.

there is no IF about it!

 

[St. SteVen]

you clearly do NOT understand the Gospel Message of the Holy Bible!

The ONLY HOPE in escaping eternal punishment in hell, is by REPENTING of your sins and BELIEVING in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as is clear in Mark 1:15, and elsewhere.

What do you make of this? Where's Jesus in this?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges
people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[Wrangler]

The ETERNAL CONSCIOUS PUNISHMENT of the unbelieving lost, is 100% Taught in the Holy Bible, and matters ZERO if it is not accepted by anyone.

It is like Holy Trinity, that God is Three Distinct Person in One Eternal Godhead. This is 100% Bible TRUTH, and matters ZERO if it is denied by those deceived by the devil!

You are deceived on both counts. Proof? What verse states the ETERNAL CONSCIOUS PUNISHMENT doctrine?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

You are deceived on both counts. Proof? What verse states the ETERNAL CONSCIOUS PUNISHMENT doctrine?

Proof has been given to you MANY TIMES but you just can't see it

 

[Wrangler]

Proof has been given to you MANY TIMES but you just can't see it

So, you cannot produce antyhing like Malichi 13:52 the ETERNAL CONSCIOUS PUNISHMENT doctrine is ordained by God? But I am the one who is wrong. Gotcha!

 

[Wrangler]

It's a mistranslation.
That's the whole point of my post.
The same word is used in these scriptures. Do they mean the same thing? (nope)

Certainly a misinterpretation.

One vid explains the difference between eternal consequences from eternal punishment.

If you ask a woman to marry you and the relationship ends, the consequences of her ‘no’ is eternal. This does not mean she is saying no to you every moment for eternity.

The consequence of damnation is likewise eternal. You’re put into the Lake of Fire to be annihilated in 2nd death. However, you’re not suffering, tortured without end. God puts you out of your misery.

 

[Randy Kluth]

St. SteVen said:

Why would you say that restoring Israel is to "restore everything"?
There is certainly MORE to "everything" than Israel.

That seems pretty self-serving for Christianity to make such a claim. IMHO

God is "self-serving." He said, "You shall have no other gods before Me." Of course, He was just speaking the truth, that there can only be one God. Unfair? I don't think so.

To "restore everything" is to restore the entire nation, state, and country, though these terms may be somewhat synonymous. Restoring "everything" means farms in the country, businesses in the city, prosperity in child-bearing, blessing in long life, etc. etc. Removing pests and sicknesses, ending enemy challenges--you get the picture.

It does not mean "everything" as in "everything." ;) It may sound like that, but the initiated recognize that seemingly all-encompassing generalizations are, upon closer look, applicable to the thing that qualifies it. "Everything" in the land of Israel, but only with respect to those God chose to serve Him. And that's because the broader context defines who is in covenant with God, and who is not.