Does Christian Universalism sidestep the justice of God?

[face2face]

You said that Jesus eliminates people from existence and I gave you a scriptural response to refute that doctrine after you accused others of ignoring said scriptures.

Let's stick to the topic.

Correct the wocked will cease to exist as per Scripture.

"the wicked shall perish [not be tortured forever in hell]...Into smoke they shall vanish away." Psalm 37:20

F2F

 

[gpresdo]

Then what need was there for Christ to die on the cross?

 

[face2face]

Romans 2:7 if you didnt know!

 

[Patrick1966]

You must be a fool if you have failed to read my posts as they teach you I DONT believe Jesus tortures people forever. Immortality is sought and given to the just by faith...no one has immortality on this planet!
F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

I wont let you run from Isa 34:10 & Rev 14:11

Can you see your error?

Create a new thread.

 

[face2face]

Then what need was there for Christ ti die on the cross?

To declare his Fathers righteousness in his treatment of sins flesh! It was the only way God could rightly condemn sin in the flesh of His Son.
Go away and read Romans 8:1-3
F2F

 

[face2face]

View attachment 35771

Hey Parick the GIF's make you look like you're out of your depth and failing to argue your position
Maybe use your words ;)

 

[face2face]

Create a new thread.

More avoidance.
Did you get the lesson? Or did it fall to the ground through your fingers?

 

[Patrick1966]

Then what need was there for Christ to die on the cross?

Do you not want to answer my question to you regarding the contradictory verses in the KJV? After all, the KJV is what gave the world forever Hell.

 

[face2face]

Do you not want to answer my question to you regarding the contradictory verses in the KJV? After all, the KJV is what gave the world forever Hell.

As I said, my position re your willing ignorance still stands. Speak to Isa 34:10 & Rev 14:11 and lets see if you can work it out - are you someone who forces notions upon the Word or are you willing to accurately interpret.
Jury is still out.
F2F

 

[gpresdo]

You need to change the book you are reading for a bible.
The 1611 KJV is suggested.

 

[Patrick1966]

You need to change bibles.

So you agree that Jesus tortures people FOREVER?

 

[Patrick1966]

As I said, my position re your willing ignorance still stands. Speak to Isa 34:10 & Rev 14:11 and lets see if you can work it out - are you someone who forces notions upon the Word or are you willing to accurately interpret.
Jury is still out.
F2F

You're off-topic.

 

[face2face]

You're off-topic.

It is the hardest thing for a believer to admit they are wrong.

 

[face2face]

But if you do, in that moment one can become teachable.

 

[Patrick1966]

You need to change the book you are reading for a bible.
The 1611 KJV is suggested.

I've cited scripture to you while you cite your opinions.

What does 1 Timothy 4:10 mean when Paul said that Jesus is the savior of ALL men? Is Paul wrong? Does Jesus actually NOT save all men?

 

[Lizbeth]

Revelation is always a viable source of scripture to read and look at, in my opinion. From what i heard from my teacher is there are two people who he knows and talked to that they are unable to comperhend a loving God separating people in the end of life. That was how it was in the beginning. From my perspective this “Christian Univeraslism” is not something I agree with because of what Jesus teaches through out the narrative, and also the apostles. The lake fire and brimstone is said to be in front of the angels and the lamb. For some this is just a sadistic way God tortures “examines” people who desire to come into the Kingdom. While Satan and his angels and the false beast and the prophet are said to be in the lake of fire forever; those who take part are not. Do they come from the outside of the gate inside? If that is possible? Jesus said professed believers are said to come in but not properly clothed; and God himself comes and orders their hands and feet to be tied and throw out in the outer darkness. Its hard to get around these things, and the wrath of God was poured out on Jerusalem for them having killed his Son. While i dont believe this wrath deacibed abides on anyone today; there will be a price that will have to meet if they go through the lake of fire; and while other people may have their ideas or perhaps look at other people for answers its still always best to keep at the source, and i dont believe in eternal punishment but those who are judged without Christ will be given a spiritual body not so equipped to dwell in the light, and perhaps those in the city can go help those in the darkness.

I dont know for sure or really, all that is know is I trust the Lord and Savior; over what man may say or think I may need to believe; and if God is good, and God is light, and God is a consuming fire; those who go through that lake for an age if they decide to have all the bad evil parts erroded away from them until the only good % is left.

Thats my objection to the whole “Christian universalism” i do believe people come to christ in the end of life but it comes at a cost and some may stay out in the darkness for as long as they want, or perhaps those thrown out will go get the proper clothing through that fire.

God is good, and love and he has a purpose in which none perish. He allows people to choose; and he doesnt force… unless you believe in the doctrine of Calvinism. Then yes he is a God of force. I disagree.

Behold the goodness and the severity of God. The wages of sin is death. Fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell/hades. Just look around the world my friend at all the suffering that takes place under the rule of a sovereign God. And how about all the chastisements and sufferings that Christians go through for our spiritual good, as well. God is not willing that any should perish, and yet the bible is also clear that many will perish. Perish means perish. It's final. Like the beasts that perish. There is a way in which we think too much of man and that causes us to accuse God of cruelty and wrongdoing in His dealings with the human race.....whereas the bible says what is man that God is mindful of us? it's a wonder that any are saved at all. We look at the cup as though it is half empty when it is half full and a wondrous miracle at that....it cost the Son of Man everything. And if it is hard even for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner? The Lord graciously offers His love, mercy, grace and help, but many reject it. Heaven's perspective is not like the man-centred point of view of the flesh.

 

[Wrangler]

Getting back to the OP; any claim of Universal Salvation must explain:

1. The 2nd Death
2. Lake of Fire

So far, I haven't heard any rationalization for the aligment of these 3 points.

 

[quietthinker]

That's the theology of most Christians, that Jesus sends the bad people to Hell where they are made to suffer FOREVER.

Yet you constantly regurgitate it, pushing to the forefront.

 

[St. SteVen]

Then what need was there for Christ to die on the cross?

That's a good question.
Jesus paid the death penalty for all of humankind.
The work of the Atonement on our behalf was a complete work.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.