St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you meant, to keep Gods word from, getting IN? (not out)
Gates prevail to keep invaders out. Gates that don't prevail allow the invaders to enter.
How do you reconcile "the gates of Hell will NOT prevail" with Satan supposedly taking most of mankind to Hell with him?
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Gates prevail to keep invaders out. Gates that don't prevail allow the invaders to enter.
Is that what Jesus meant, that the Gates of Hell would not prevent the word from getting out? Hell is death. I believe Jesus was saying that his church will prevail against death.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I'm warming up to your take on this.
But I have a question, or would like to explore it further.
I agree with your assessment when looking to the end of all things.
The gates of hell (death) will not prevail. Totally agree.
But how does the church fit in this view? Perhaps my view about the church is too limited. ???
I see the church as something that is happening here, in this lifetime. Here in this realm.
Not in the realm of the afterlife. As if the culmination of the church is the afterlife.
Does the church continue to be a thing in the afterlife?
Maybe we need to investigate this angle?
I apologize if you have already covered this. I'm a bit thick-headed at times. - LOL
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Jesus was obviously speaking in figurative terms that his apostles would understand. If Satan is able to steal souls from Jesus forever, then Jesus's statement isn't true and Hell's "gates" have indeed, prevailed, at least in some cases.
We know that Jesus must rule until ALL are beneath his feet. Obviously, many don't go to Jesus while in the flesh. Obviously, that means that they WILL go to Jesus, but it will happen in the hereafter so, yes, the church goes on in the hereafter. Jesus is the head of the church/kingdom until such time that all lost sheep have been collected and then Jesus turns over the church/kingdom to God the Father. That's what 1 Corinthians 15 says and I have no reason to disbelieve it. The "church" is the body of believers in Christ and that body or "church" will exist FOREVER. So, yes, the church exists forever. There is no "culmination", or at least this is my understanding. I obviously may be mistaken on some of this.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
It’s not satan stealing people from jesus. Its jesus rescuing people from satan..
Do you believe that Jesus is incapable of rescuing some from Satan?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Great response post.
Can you substantiate this statement?
Can we assume that the kingdom is the church? (church/kingdom) ???
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
Agree.
What happens if the gate does not prevail?
Does it keep people out?
Agree.
What happens if the gate does not prevail?
Does it keep people out?
What? !!!! Explain. Thanks.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No,
thats why he said the gates of hell will not prevail. It will not keep the church out.. We will enter the gates of hell and jesus through us will rescue people.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If the gate does not prevail. The enemy will come in and attempt to rescue people within the gates
God and the church is the enemy of Hell.. and the gate of hell will not prevail
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
In saying this it is evident you do not understand what I am saying by the way..
Can I substantiate what statement, that the church and the kingdom are one-in-the-same?
I think it's like this. Those who don't follow Jesus are outside of the church and outside of God's kingdom. They will, however, eventually join Jesus's church, which is the kingdom. At least that is my understanding.
The gates will NOT prevail and Jesus will save ALL! Why? Because that's the way God has willed it to be!
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
Perhaps. By the way, I'm not debating you. I'm only trying to convey my understanding to you. Sometimes that involves asking questions.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Some further biblical evidence would be helpful to substantiate that the church and the kingdom are synonymous.
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