People say you can not lose faith, God can't lose you, is that true?

[MatthewG]

@Eternally Grateful

I also am very support of biblical teachings to go book by book and verse by verse,


if you ever wanna teach people.

That is the way I would go about doing it, in conjuction of the spirit, and scripture with scripture, and maybe address commentaries of others and what they think, might agree with some of them, might not, but its all about

persenting information for the benfit of the believer

not to harm

ever, and all about love

always,

In care,
MAtthew

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Cool. Well that is all on you and what you believe is dangerous or not.

I don't see Satan being defeated harming anyone at all...

In fact it's more freeing to trust in Jesus Christ and his victory.

Yes

But if he is still free. and going around like a rouring lion.

those who think he is bound can fall into his trap

remember, he comes as an angel of light

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

What were the surrounding nations at the time?

You could make it for oh america, or austrilia, or whatever...

but everything boils down to a one tiem event with Israel.

You have to decide for yourself, and dont believe me

Love,
Matthew

one time event for Israel?

not sure what you mean

 

[MatthewG]

Yes

But if he is still free. and going around like a rouring lion.

those who think he is bound can fall into his trap

remember, he comes as an angel of light

Yes, I take it as anyone can come to you as an 'angel of light' but secertly behind the eye they is darkness and they desire to harm you, but that is subjective...

one time event for Israel?

not sure what you mean

@Eternally Grateful,

Then I greatly encourage you to read all four Gospels.

That is all I can honestly say to you because I could help you but that means you do not go and do any of the seeking and searching yourself, and I am not fixing to do that.

Only encourage casting your worries and anxityes to God and you will be more free, trust Jesus and please...

be encourage to read the bible, I don't care which version.

I did this for two weeks and relapsed on meth but ...

Ill share it just so you can see it's important...

https://www.youtube.com/@GNSharing/videos

- Day one Matthew chapter 1 - 9,

- Day two Matthew chapter 10-16

- Day three Matthew 17-24


All the best cause I can only help so much you gotta do some work too, and may God Guide.

Matthew

 

[CadyandZoe]

well one must make a decision (john 1: 12, but as many as have recieved him... John 3 : whoever believes)

but some make a decision to believe yet have not truly repented.

ie, Billy graham, Many made a decision to say some prayer. But they never repented and came to true faith.

thus many in a matter opf just days, recanted their prayer. because they never really believed. it was done in a moment of emotion..

Yes, I agree. A decision must be made.
What I had in mind was the following. An evangelist gives a moving, emotional speech about hellfire or some other inspirational topic. At the end comes the moving organ music playing a hymn such as "Just as I am." The preacher asks everyone to bow the head and those who wish to be saved should raise their hands. The goal is to get as many people in the pews to make "The Decision." The evangelist's job was to "push for the decision." Why? Because it was believed that once a person publically confessed the Lord Jesus Christ, that person was "saved." In other words,

one-time confession = eternally saved.

I'm sure you know all of this. I'm not saying anything new. And I agree with everything you said. (It so happens that I gave my heart to the Lord just after watching Billy Graham on TV. So I am not being critical of him in the least. :) )

The concept of "one-time confession" is an idea that should be considered as we talk about eternal security. :)

 

[CadyandZoe]

Cadyandzoe,

Have you considered the story of Adam and Eve?
What those men may believe, I do not know, but the story of Adam and Eve is something to consider.

All in love,
Matthew

Yes, I have thought much about the account of Adam and Eve. How does their story relate to eternal security?

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, I have thought much about the account of Adam and Eve. How does their story relate to eternal security?

I wasn't talking about eternal security.

I don't even know if eternal security is a real thing...

All the best,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

@CadyandZoe,

There is a reason that is said to,

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling",

What does that mean to you?

All the best, in love,
Matthew

 

[CadyandZoe]

I wasn't talking about eternal security.

I don't even know if eternal security is a real thing...

All the best,
Matthew

Okay. In my experience, when folks talk about "losing faith" the central issue is the doctrine of "eternal security."

The quote below was given on the internet.

In Reformed Christianity, eternal security is a logical consequence of the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, according to which true Christians will persevere in good works and faith. Because faith is God's perfect gift it will inevitably produce perseverance in faith and good works.​

Putting the question another way . . . "Do we participate in our own salvation? If so, how much?"

Perhaps you intended to raise a different topic. If so, I apologize for the misunderstanding. :)

 

[MatthewG]

Okay. In my experience, when folks talk about "losing faith" the central issue is the doctrine of "eternal security."

@CadyandZoe,

Oh okay,

The quote below was given on the internet.

In Reformed Christianity, eternal security is a logical consequence of the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, according to which true Christians will persevere in good works and faith. Because faith is God's perfect gift it will inevitably produce perseverance in faith and good works.​

I don't believe in Reformed Christianity.

I do believe that God set him aside a people in the first century who was the bride of Christ, like it says in Ezekiel, when he had set aside 3000 that had not kneed to baal. Today, though after the first bride, more was to come.

But there is no more 'election', there is choice, and all are raised when they pass away here.

That would be my counter to this, doctrine.

Putting the question another way . . . "Do we participate in our own salvation? If so, how much?"

Would you be able to answer the question as stated though?

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"?
How would you explain that to someone if you were sharing it with them?

Perhaps you intended to raise a different topic. If so, I apologize for the misunderstanding. :)

Just was asking questions,

Thank you for explaining the idea of eternal security, I do not believe that is a viable doctrine personally, but whoever thinks so can believe so if they choose to.

All the best, in Christ,
Matthew

 

[CadyandZoe]

@CadyandZoe,

There is a reason that is said to,

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling",

What does that mean to you?

All the best, in love,
Matthew

It relates to Paul's exhortation concerning the Biblical concept of "sophrosyne "an ancient Greek concept of an ideal of excellence of character and soundness of mind." Within the Christian worldview, the concept relates to a sober view of God's authority to put me into circumstances that might be uncomfortable for a time. I might have a mean boss, or I might get angry at the government for overreach. In any case, the one who attains to "sophrosyne" is the one who perseveres under trial without getting angry, or despondent or hopeless.

Here is a link to a paper on the subject. The Miracle of Sophrosune - Gutenberg College

"fear and trembling" is the attitude we take when confronted by those who have authority over us, such as teachers, husbands, kings, ministers etc. One might chafe and complain and get angry and attempt subterfuge. Paul exhorts us toward quietness and humility and to focus on the task at hand. Pray for those over us and "know yourself." Be happy where God has planted you. Know that God has placed you in particular circumstances for a good reason. Do try to have your own way. Remain humble. Do nothing from selfishness. Do merely look out for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.

The following is a quote from translation notes given by the same author above.

In this particular subsection of Paul’s letter, there are three occurrences of the relatively infrequent noun ἡσυχία [hesuchia] or of the adjective ἡσύχιος [hesuchios], and two occurrences of the relatively infrequent noun σωφροσύνη [sophrosune]. These two word groups seem to embody the theme of this subsection. The point of this subsection is that Paul wants believers to manifest ἡσυχία (hesuchia) stemming from σωφροσύνη [sophrosune]. Paul uses the noun ἡσυχία [hesuchia] to describe the inner calm, inner quiet, and restful contentment that an individual has if and when he is not waging battle against the boundaries and limits he finds placed on his existence—in other words, if he manifests sophrosune. If one is content to accept whatever circumstances God has placed him in, then he is in a state of sophrosune, and—as a result—he will experience an inner calm or quiet. Such an inner calm or quiet is what Paul means to capture by the word ἡσυχία [hesuchia] in this context. Paul believes that ἡσυχία [hesuchia] should be the prevailing condition of the Jesus-believer’s inner life. ​

In his first epistle to Timothy, Paul declares "sophrosyne" to be a condition of salvation.

 

[Rockerduck]

@CadyandZoe,

Oh okay,

I don't believe in Reformed Christianity.

I do believe that God set him aside a people in the first century who was the bride of Christ, like it says in Ezekiel, when he had set aside 3000 that had not kneed to baal. Today, though after the first bride, more was to come.

But there is no more 'election', there is choice, and all are raised when they pass away here.

That would be my counter to this, doctrine.

Would you be able to answer the question as stated though?

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"?
How would you explain that to someone if you were sharing it with them?

Just was asking questions,

Thank you for explaining the idea of eternal security, I do not believe that is a viable doctrine personally, but whoever thinks so can believe so if they choose to.

All the best, in Christ,
Matthew

I have to correct you for the benefit of others reading this.

1 Kings 19:18 - Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”

 

[MatthewG]

@Rockerduck,

See, that was the scripture that I was talking about. Sometimes we just say things off the cuff, but God is looking at the heart and intent.

It will happen more and more as we grow older sometimes, but you found it.

Thank you,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

It relates to Paul's exhortation concerning the Biblical concept of "sophrosyne "an ancient Greek concept of an ideal of excellence of character and soundness of mind." Within the Christian worldview, the concept relates to a sober view of God's authority to put me into circumstances that might be uncomfortable for a time. I might have a mean boss, or I might get angry at the government for overreach. In any case, the one who attains to "sophrosyne" is the one who perseveres under trial without getting angry, or despondent or hopeless.

Here is a link to a paper on the subject. The Miracle of Sophrosune - Gutenberg College

"fear and trembling" is the attitude we take when confronted by those who have authority over us, such as teachers, husbands, kings, ministers etc. One might chafe and complain and get angry and attempt subterfuge. Paul exhorts us toward quietness and humility and to focus on the task at hand. Pray for those over us and "know yourself." Be happy where God has planted you. Know that God has placed you in particular circumstances for a good reason. Do try to have your own way. Remain humble. Do nothing from selfishness. Do merely look out for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.

The following is a quote from translation notes given by the same author above.

In this particular subsection of Paul’s letter, there are three occurrences of the relatively infrequent noun ἡσυχία [hesuchia] or of the adjective ἡσύχιος [hesuchios], and two occurrences of the relatively infrequent noun σωφροσύνη [sophrosune]. These two word groups seem to embody the theme of this subsection. The point of this subsection is that Paul wants believers to manifest ἡσυχία (hesuchia) stemming from σωφροσύνη [sophrosune]. Paul uses the noun ἡσυχία [hesuchia] to describe the inner calm, inner quiet, and restful contentment that an individual has if and when he is not waging battle against the boundaries and limits he finds placed on his existence—in other words, if he manifests sophrosune. If one is content to accept whatever circumstances God has placed him in, then he is in a state of sophrosune, and—as a result—he will experience an inner calm or quiet. Such an inner calm or quiet is what Paul means to capture by the word ἡσυχία [hesuchia] in this context. Paul believes that ἡσυχία [hesuchia] should be the prevailing condition of the Jesus-believer’s inner life. ​

In his first epistle to Timothy, Paul declares "sophrosyne" to be a condition of salvation.

@CadyandZoe,

So how would explain it to a simple guy on the street? If they asked you, saying "Hey CadyandZoe, you are a bible believer, I heard someone talk about "work out your salvation and trembling", if you have heard that before how would you explain that cause I never heard it before?

all in love,
Matthew

 

[CadyandZoe]

But there is no more 'election', there is choice, and all are raised when they pass away here.

Both are compatible. But okay.

Would you be able to answer the question as stated though?

Yes. I will give a fuller response in another post. I am reformed with a small 'r'. What do I mean? I'm not a Calvinist, but I agree with the concept of God's sovereignty and most of what that implies.

With regard to our salvation, I agree with Paul's picture. According to Paul's theology, whom to save is God's choice, and those he chooses to save will not fail to be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I agree. A decision must be made.
What I had in mind was the following. An evangelist gives a moving, emotional speech about hellfire or some other inspirational topic. At the end comes the moving organ music playing a hymn such as "Just as I am." The preacher asks everyone to bow the head and those who wish to be saved should raise their hands. The goal is to get as many people in the pews to make "The Decision." The evangelist's job was to "push for the decision." Why? Because it was believed that once a person publically confessed the Lord Jesus Christ, that person was "saved." In other words,

one-time confession = eternally saved.

I'm sure you know all of this. I'm not saying anything new. And I agree with everything you said. (It so happens that I gave my heart to the Lord just after watching Billy Graham on TV. So I am not being critical of him in the least. :) )

The concept of "one-time confession" is an idea that should be considered as we talk about eternal security. :)

the problem with this thought is the people do not openly confess.. Billy graham said his biggest regret was that he did not follow up with these people. there was a huge chance many of therm just reacted.. and they needed further information and councel..

 

[Rockerduck]

@Rockerduck,

See, that was the scripture that I was talking about. Sometimes we just say things off the cuff, but God is looking at the heart and intent.

It will happen more and more as we grow older sometimes, but you found it.

Thank you,
Matthew

Thanks, I've taught bible studies for years. I've even corrected Pastors., you are in good company. By way, I worked for the Billy Graham association on the Crusades.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I take it as anyone can come to you as an 'angel of light' but secertly behind the eye they is darkness and they desire to harm you, but that is subjective...

But I am not satan, nor is anyone else. No person has the knowledge and experience with dealing with the human race. Why do you think over and over mankind keeps making the same mistakes? Because satan knows just how to convince them.

Satan has no real desire to harm you. Just prevent you from seeing the truth and being a weapon in Gods army..

@Eternally Grateful,

Then I greatly encourage you to read all four Gospels.

That is all I can honestly say to you because I could help you but that means you do not go and do any of the seeking and searching yourself, and I am not fixing to do that.

Only encourage casting your worries and anxityes to God and you will be more free, trust Jesus and please...

be encourage to read the bible, I don't care which version.

I did this for two weeks and relapsed on meth but ...

Ill share it just so you can see it's important...

https://www.youtube.com/@GNSharing/videos

- Day one Matthew chapter 1 - 9,

- Day two Matthew chapter 10-16

- Day three Matthew 17-24


All the best cause I can only help so much you gotta do some work too, and may God Guide.

Matthew

so your not going to tell me what you meant?

smh

and you wonder why people give you such grief.. you say things, then when someone questions them, you pass the buck

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I wasn't talking about eternal security.

I don't even know if eternal security is a real thing...

All the best,
Matthew

eternal life is not eternal?

why would you not know the base doctrine of the gospel?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@CadyandZoe,

There is a reason that is said to,

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling",

What does that mean to you?

All the best, in love,
Matthew

work out what is in you

if he meant work to gain salvation or to keep it. he would have said work in order to gain salvation.

also. remember, the same author called the galatian church fools because they thought they began in the flesh (faith) but must perfect it by works)