What does "born again" mean?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,149
7,481
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Okay; in your experience, what's it like?
As the Holy Spirit was indwelling me, he testified with my spirit that I am his child....it was mind blowing and a living spiritual birth ...in other words God’s word is ALIVE and very Active.

When God speaks there can be no denying it.....straight to the heart of his child.

Much more to it than that..God drew me to Jesus, Godly sorrow..repentance, etc...all my living testimony
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,566
11,694
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As the Holy Spirit was indwelling me, he testified with my spirit that I am his child....it was mind blowing and a living spiritual birth ...in other words God’s word is ALIVE and very Active.
Something inside me wants to say, "Praise God!"

But I've also listened to the testimonies of some wonderfully faithful and godly men and women, and many testify that they didn't have any mind-blowing experiences. What of them?
 

Rita

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 20, 2020
4,587
8,010
113
67
South
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Something inside me wants to say, "Praise God!"

But I've also listened to the testimonies of some wonderfully faithful and godly men and women, and many testify that they didn't have any mind-blowing experiences. What of them?
I didn’t have a mind blowing experience - in fact it took me time to realise that The Holy Spirit had made his presence known in a very quiet way. I have doubted my faith in so many ways over the years because others have said their experience was so dramatic.
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,149
7,481
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Something inside me wants to say, "Praise God!"

But I've also listened to the testimonies of some wonderfully faithful and godly men and women, and many testify that they didn't have any mind-blowing experiences. What of them?
I can’t speak for them.

I can only speak of my own experience....that was the Living word of God....His Living word, is mind blowing....the Bible is his “ Living “word....only the Spirit can testify that to our spirit......and when he did it blew my mind after 30yrs it still does....as scripture says.

Hebrews 4:12
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

New Living Translation
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires
 
J

Johann

Guest
I didn’t have a mind blowing experience - in fact it took me time to realise that The Holy Spirit had made his presence known in a very quiet way. I have doubted my faith in so many ways over the years because others have said their experience was so dramatic.
Praise God! I can relate-I was hurt, emotionally and spiritually by the Pentecostals-the reason why I don't go on others "dramatic experiences and testimonies"

I still have my moments of doubt.
Thank you for this powerful, simple testimony.
Johann.
 
J

Johann

Guest
I like hearing my brothers' and sisters' testimonies: Both the dramatic ones and the quiet ones.
I like reading and studying my Bible-and the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ and God-

1Co_1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

1Co_2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2Co_1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

2Th_1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe
(because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

2Ti_1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Heb_3:5
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Rev_1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Rev_1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos,
for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev_6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev_11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev_12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

If the dramatic and not so dramatic "testimonies" does not line up with the testimony of Scriptures-I am not interested and this is not the time for "open confessions" brother.
Not being facetious with you.
It is all about the testimony of Christ-the Cross-resurrection and HIM alone since there can be a "boasting" in OUR testimonies-to God be the glory and all boasting Excluded.

"Hear" what I am saying brother.
Johann.
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,149
7,481
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
There is no boasting when one has been birthed in the Spirit.

But a Born Again will boast about The mighty power of God!.....as all the Glory goes to God....that’s what imo testimonies are all about....including the “ mind blowing “ ones.

Testimonies to the POWER of God!......

As we see here....the Living/ Mighty/ Powerful word of God.

Hebrews 4:12
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

New Living Translation
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires

Let Him Who Boasts Boast in the Lord!​


Jeremiah 9:24
Context Crossref Comm Hebrew
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,” declares the LORD.

New Living Translation
But those who wish to boast should boast in this alone: that they truly know me and understand that I am the LORD who demonstrates unfailing love and who brings justice and righteousness to the earth, and that I delight in these things. I, the LORD, have spoken!
 
Last edited:
J

Johann

Guest
Hi all,
Does "born again" mean that you simply believe in faith or simply chose to believe in faith in Jesus Christ, or does it also mean that you have to be baptized? I hope this is a simple answer. Thank you.
BORN AGAIN

The same root is used in Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus in John 3:3,7,8 (gennaō) and in 1 Pet. 1:23. It speaks of a decisive act. The NT also uses other imagery to describe our salvation:

"quickened" (cf. Col. 2:13; Eph. 2:4-5)
"new creation" (cf. 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15)
"partaker of Divine Nature," (cf. 2 Pet. 1:4)

Paul is fond of the familial imagery "adoption" (cf. Rom. 8:23; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5), while John and Peter are fond of the familial imagery "new birth"

Being "born again" or "born from above" is a biblical emphasis on the need for a totally new start (cf. Ezek. 36:26-27), a totally new family (cf. John 1:12-13; Rom. 5:12-21). Christianity is not a reformation or a new morality; it is a new relationship with God. This new relationship is made possible because of=

1. the Father's mercy and grace (cf. Exod. 34:6; Neh. 9:17)
2. the Son's sacrificial death (cf. 2 Cor. 5:21) and resurrection from the dead (cf. 1 Corinthians 15)
3. the work of the Spirit (cf. John 3:6; 6:44,65; 1 Pet. 1:2)

This divine will and action gives believers a new life, a living hope, and a sure inheritance.



John 3:3
NASB, NKJV, TEV, REB, Peshitta  "born again"
NRSV, NJB  "born from above"

This is AORIST PASSIVE SUBJUNCTIVE. The word (anōthen) can mean

"physically born a second time"
"born from the beginning" (cf. Acts 26:4)
"born from above," which fits this context (cf. John 3:7,31; 19:11)

This is probably another example of John's use of terms that have two meanings (double entendre), both of which are true (cf. Bauer, Arndt, Gengrich and Danker's A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 77).

As is obvious from John 3:4, Nicodemus understood it as option # 1. John and Peter (cf. 1 Pet. 1:23) use this familial metaphor for salvation as Paul uses the term "adoption." The focus is on the Father's acts in begetting (cf. John 1:13). Salvation is a gift and act of God (cf. John 1:12-13; Rom. 3:21-24; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9).

The footnote to George Lamsa's translation of the Peshitta says, "'Born again' in northern Aramaic, means to change one's thoughts and habits. Nicodemus spoke southern Aramaic and hence, did not understand Jesus."


However-we can pontificate and philosophize about this-but it is only a reality for those who have experienced this.
J.
 
J

Johann

Guest
So-you are a Christian-what now? I mean, that's the testimony, right?
So You Have Become a Christian -- Now What?

Nowhere in Scripture is it stated that a Christian is free from the need to obey the Law. If Christians are supposedly free from keeping the Law -- as many claim -- does that mean they are at liberty to violate the Law? And to go unpunished when they do? Because this is what Christians are saying and also doing. For the alternative to Law is not Grace, but lawlessness. If Christians are free to violate the Law because they are under Grace, then this gift of Grace becomes license to sin, for sin is simply violation of the Laws of YEHOVAH God -- any one of them!

by Arnold Kennedy

Introduction

When people first become Christians, it is not long before many have questions about whether or not any part of the Old Testament Law of YEHOVAH God has any place in their new life. Whilst they are told an interpretation of, “We are not under Law, but under Grace”, they know at the same time they cannot steal, lie or murder, all of which are against parts of YEHOVAH’s Law.

Ask these same people twenty years later about this matter, and find there has been absolutely no lessening of confusion over the twenty-year period. The tender conscience of first love has become hardened over this period, and in many aspects of practical living there is little obvious difference in the way they live from that of their “unsaved” neighbors.

This is especially evident in economic decisions, financial applications of borrowing and lending, political decisions and involvement, property responsibilities, criminal law, inheritance laws, health requirements, and in duties in regard to government. Even the area of pre-marital sex, divorce and adultery there is often little difference that can be seen. In remaining untaught as to what follows on from the Gospel, denominational Christians often become, “spotted by the flesh” (Jude 23), through the superficial doctrine that has been presented to them. The great thing both the supposedly “saved” and the “unsaved” have in common is denial, or ignorance, of the Law of YEHOVAH God. In this both are humanistic.

This article is an effort to give some understanding as to how and when YEHOVAH’s Law has place in a Christians life, which life is pictured as being a journey, or what the Messiah terms a “way”. This is only one of several pictures that could be painted.

Look at this illustration. If a car restorer selects a damaged vehicle for restoration, the damaged car must first be paid for in full. This is a picture of the payment Yeshua the Messiah made to redeem his Father's people Israel. Being paid for, or “bought with a price”, as a wreck does not complete the restoration of a car. The Purchaser has to do a lot of restoration work on that car, and it may take a long time before the work is finished.

The Messiah has paid the price for us as damaged vehicles, and thus has “saved” us from being totally scrapped. But being “saved” does not immediately make us fully restored. This is why the, “Once saved, saved for ever” doctrine is totally deficient and blinds understanding in the way it is presented. Churches infer by doctrine that the restoration work is optional. We remain “saved” only whilst remaining “in Christ Jesus our Lord”, a safe place along the “way” where nothing can then separate us from the love of YEHOVAH God (Romans 8:29).

This picture is what follows throughout the Bible. It is about a journey by YEHOVAH’s chosen people, the Israelites, which parallels a car’s rescue from the scrap heap. It is pictured in the journey of the Israelites after being “saved” from slavery, and their subsequent journey to the Promised Land, by which time the work of restoration could have been completed. We read of judgment upon the Israelites for not working in with the Restorer and of them being “cast off” (Romans 11:22), and even being denied further restoration (perishing in the wilderness).

We are told something about the tools used in this work in the fourth chapter of the Book of Ephesians. But if these tools are not available, or are not being allowed, there can be little progress along the “way”. Failure to consider this progression is the cause of many misunderstandings people have about the application of certain passages of the Bible, especially in regard to the application or non-application of YEHOVAH’s Law. The starting point of the Christian journey is believing the “Gospel”, and each person is designed to continue from that point “unto perfection” (Hebrews 6:1). But like most of the Israelites who perished in the wilderness, many never “arrive” at the designed end.

The “Gospel”

There are 306 references to “gospel” in the New Testament, the prime message being about the “Kingdom of Heaven” (over Israelites), and “The Kingdom of God” (YEHOVAH God’s sphere of authority over everything). The “Kingdom” is not the aspect that this article is addressing. Galatians 1:9 speaks about “any other gospel” where “other” = para (or alongside). This runs parallel to the true gospel and thus looks something the same. Because of this one person may question whether or not another person believes the same Gospel as he does.

Both people may say they both believe what is often described as “the Gospel of the free Grace of God”, and indeed they may both start there. But they diverge on what follows on from that. How? One group considers the Gospel to be both the beginning and the end without having to start on a journey. They are led to believe that they have arrived, that all responsibility has been taken out of their hands, and that, “God still loves you unconditionally no matter what you do”.

This group does not believe that the following can happen, “The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire” (2 Peter 2:22). These are the pathetic sugar-puff members of popular churches, who follow entertainment, the latest trends in "pop Christianity", fads such as WWJD, "Christian Rock", the prosperity purveyors, and excitement mongers such as Benny Hinn. Those who specialize in just one emphasis fall in this group also, as do all the many Pastors who regularly view pornography.

The other group believes, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it” (Matthew 7:14) -- that is, they believe that the Gospel is the beginning of a pathway that can end in eternal life. These are the real seekers.

We can easily see whether the first group have “arrived” or not in the following verses:

John 8:31: “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed”.

1 Peter 1:9: “Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls”.

In the latter verse, “end” = telos, or the final point. The Messiah said, “I am the way” (John 14:6), where “the way” = hodos, which is about travelling from one place to another destination. The Messiah said, “I am the door” as the entrance to the “way” that leads = apago (an active-present verb) unto “life” = zoe. This word “way” is still “hodos” in:

Hebrews 10:19-20: "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;"

Then this passage carries on to tell us how to travel in practical terms. So with all the references to “way”, it cannot be escaped that being a believer in the Messiah starts at the beginning of a journey, and then continues by walking along a certain “way”. Now we are not looking at specifics here at this time, but at the active principles that apply. We can do this through the analogy of marriage that there is to follow throughout the Bible. This “way” proceeds from being single, entering through the door, the journey, betrothal, and thence to marriage. YEHOVAH God’s special relationship with the Israelites presents us with this picture.

Please note-I don't fully endorse this link. But there is enough to "think about"


J.

Spotted @WalterandDebbie keep up the good work in Christ Jesus.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: WalterandDebbie

WalterandDebbie

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2009
5,132
3,559
113
78
USA
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So-you are a Christian-what now? I mean, that's the testimony, right?
So You Have Become a Christian -- Now What?

Nowhere in Scripture is it stated that a Christian is free from the need to obey the Law. If Christians are supposedly free from keeping the Law -- as many claim -- does that mean they are at liberty to violate the Law? And to go unpunished when they do? Because this is what Christians are saying and also doing. For the alternative to Law is not Grace, but lawlessness. If Christians are free to violate the Law because they are under Grace, then this gift of Grace becomes license to sin, for sin is simply violation of the Laws of YEHOVAH God -- any one of them!

by Arnold Kennedy

Introduction

When people first become Christians, it is not long before many have questions about whether or not any part of the Old Testament Law of YEHOVAH God has any place in their new life. Whilst they are told an interpretation of, “We are not under Law, but under Grace”, they know at the same time they cannot steal, lie or murder, all of which are against parts of YEHOVAH’s Law.

Ask these same people twenty years later about this matter, and find there has been absolutely no lessening of confusion over the twenty-year period. The tender conscience of first love has become hardened over this period, and in many aspects of practical living there is little obvious difference in the way they live from that of their “unsaved” neighbors.

This is especially evident in economic decisions, financial applications of borrowing and lending, political decisions and involvement, property responsibilities, criminal law, inheritance laws, health requirements, and in duties in regard to government. Even the area of pre-marital sex, divorce and adultery there is often little difference that can be seen. In remaining untaught as to what follows on from the Gospel, denominational Christians often become, “spotted by the flesh” (Jude 23), through the superficial doctrine that has been presented to them. The great thing both the supposedly “saved” and the “unsaved” have in common is denial, or ignorance, of the Law of YEHOVAH God. In this both are humanistic.

This article is an effort to give some understanding as to how and when YEHOVAH’s Law has place in a Christians life, which life is pictured as being a journey, or what the Messiah terms a “way”. This is only one of several pictures that could be painted.

Look at this illustration. If a car restorer selects a damaged vehicle for restoration, the damaged car must first be paid for in full. This is a picture of the payment Yeshua the Messiah made to redeem his Father's people Israel. Being paid for, or “bought with a price”, as a wreck does not complete the restoration of a car. The Purchaser has to do a lot of restoration work on that car, and it may take a long time before the work is finished.

The Messiah has paid the price for us as damaged vehicles, and thus has “saved” us from being totally scrapped. But being “saved” does not immediately make us fully restored. This is why the, “Once saved, saved for ever” doctrine is totally deficient and blinds understanding in the way it is presented. Churches infer by doctrine that the restoration work is optional. We remain “saved” only whilst remaining “in Christ Jesus our Lord”, a safe place along the “way” where nothing can then separate us from the love of YEHOVAH God (Romans 8:29).

This picture is what follows throughout the Bible. It is about a journey by YEHOVAH’s chosen people, the Israelites, which parallels a car’s rescue from the scrap heap. It is pictured in the journey of the Israelites after being “saved” from slavery, and their subsequent journey to the Promised Land, by which time the work of restoration could have been completed. We read of judgment upon the Israelites for not working in with the Restorer and of them being “cast off” (Romans 11:22), and even being denied further restoration (perishing in the wilderness).

We are told something about the tools used in this work in the fourth chapter of the Book of Ephesians. But if these tools are not available, or are not being allowed, there can be little progress along the “way”. Failure to consider this progression is the cause of many misunderstandings people have about the application of certain passages of the Bible, especially in regard to the application or non-application of YEHOVAH’s Law. The starting point of the Christian journey is believing the “Gospel”, and each person is designed to continue from that point “unto perfection” (Hebrews 6:1). But like most of the Israelites who perished in the wilderness, many never “arrive” at the designed end.

The “Gospel”

There are 306 references to “gospel” in the New Testament, the prime message being about the “Kingdom of Heaven” (over Israelites), and “The Kingdom of God” (YEHOVAH God’s sphere of authority over everything). The “Kingdom” is not the aspect that this article is addressing. Galatians 1:9 speaks about “any other gospel” where “other” = para (or alongside). This runs parallel to the true gospel and thus looks something the same. Because of this one person may question whether or not another person believes the same Gospel as he does.

Both people may say they both believe what is often described as “the Gospel of the free Grace of God”, and indeed they may both start there. But they diverge on what follows on from that. How? One group considers the Gospel to be both the beginning and the end without having to start on a journey. They are led to believe that they have arrived, that all responsibility has been taken out of their hands, and that, “God still loves you unconditionally no matter what you do”.

This group does not believe that the following can happen, “The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire” (2 Peter 2:22). These are the pathetic sugar-puff members of popular churches, who follow entertainment, the latest trends in "pop Christianity", fads such as WWJD, "Christian Rock", the prosperity purveyors, and excitement mongers such as Benny Hinn. Those who specialize in just one emphasis fall in this group also, as do all the many Pastors who regularly view pornography.

The other group believes, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it” (Matthew 7:14) -- that is, they believe that the Gospel is the beginning of a pathway that can end in eternal life. These are the real seekers.

We can easily see whether the first group have “arrived” or not in the following verses:

John 8:31: “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed”.

1 Peter 1:9: “Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls”.

In the latter verse, “end” = telos, or the final point. The Messiah said, “I am the way” (John 14:6), where “the way” = hodos, which is about travelling from one place to another destination. The Messiah said, “I am the door” as the entrance to the “way” that leads = apago (an active-present verb) unto “life” = zoe. This word “way” is still “hodos” in:

Hebrews 10:19-20: "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;"

Then this passage carries on to tell us how to travel in practical terms. So with all the references to “way”, it cannot be escaped that being a believer in the Messiah starts at the beginning of a journey, and then continues by walking along a certain “way”. Now we are not looking at specifics here at this time, but at the active principles that apply. We can do this through the analogy of marriage that there is to follow throughout the Bible. This “way” proceeds from being single, entering through the door, the journey, betrothal, and thence to marriage. YEHOVAH God’s special relationship with the Israelites presents us with this picture.

Please note-I don't fully endorse this link. But there is enough to "think about"


J.
Hello Johann, My mind goes to Romans 8, Being Led Of The Spirit: Romans 8 KJV

Love, Walter
 

WalterandDebbie

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2009
5,132
3,559
113
78
USA
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello Walter-I have to confess I don't know what it means "to be led by the Spirit" 24/7.
Like now-Am I being led of the Spirit to respond to you-or is it "myself?"
Johann.
Reading your posts is very interesting, but being led by His spirit is very important, to me that means I can do nothing without Him, I think it is good to keep my mind on what He is saying.
 
Last edited:
J

Johann

Guest
Reading your posts is very interesting, but being led by His spirit is very important, to me that means I can do nothing without Him, I think it is good to keep my mind on what He is saying.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God," (hosoi gar pneumati theou agontai) "For (because) -as many as are led by (the) Spirit of God,"

led by the spirit into obedient service to God, and into a practical godly life - as children follow a guide and soldiers a general so children of God and members of our Lord's church should follow their Master and General, Luk_9:23; Gal_5:18; Joh_14:15; Joh_15:14; Joh_20:21.

Guess this says it all-for me Walter-PRACTICAL godly life, Matt 25 comes to mind, Jesus Himself and the Pauline epistles.


Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Jas 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Shalom
Johann.

 
  • Love
Reactions: WalterandDebbie

WalterandDebbie

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2009
5,132
3,559
113
78
USA
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God," (hosoi gar pneumati theou agontai) "For (because) -as many as are led by (the) Spirit of God,"

led by the spirit into obedient service to God, and into a practical godly life - as children follow a guide and soldiers a general so children of God and members of our Lord's church should follow their Master and General, Luk_9:23; Gal_5:18; Joh_14:15; Joh_15:14; Joh_20:21.

Guess this says it all-for me Walter-PRACTICAL godly life, Matt 25 comes to mind, Jesus Himself and the Pauline epistles.


Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Jas 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Shalom
Johann.
Great post. Love, Walter
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johann

WalterandDebbie

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2009
5,132
3,559
113
78
USA
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Last edited:

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,915
50,685
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Praise God! I can relate-I was hurt, emotionally and spiritually by the Pentecostals-the reason why I don't go on others "dramatic experiences and testimonies"

I still have my moments of doubt.
Thank you for this powerful, simple testimony.
Johann.
Most churches i went to never treated me bad at all . But phew wee the doctrine was rank .
I was a very new believer , and by the grace of GOD he had put me into that bible and i was learning .
Now i did not know why , at first , the doctrine was so empty and dead to me which i heard in the church .
Now the praise i always enjoyed . but the doctrine was so empty .
YET , yet , the truth in that bible was so edifying and wonderful and good and i joyed in it .
Now of course i went church to church .
I always went around talking to people in the church . Very few
ever seemed to really want to talk about GOD . most about football or something else .
That too was sad to me . but anyway
i kept visiting churches cause OF COURSE i desired to have good fellowship with others who loved the LORD .
In time , and it did not take long by grace and reading of that bible i began to understand
why the doctrine left me so empty .
I was also trying to watch TBN . But it just left me empty . I quickly abandonded it .
OF course later by the knowledge of GOD by His grace and continual reading of that bible
I learned why on earth the doctrine had left me so empty . THEMS WAS BONIFIED FALSE TEACHERS
teaching wordly stuff .
Now i continued to visit churches , always having hope .
After a few years and much learning i had began to talk to the actual leaders of those churches .
Asking questions and watching them TWIST DOCTRINE or left speechless and unable to answer
the SIMPLIEST of questions . SEE i didnt talk about pre mid , post trib or other stuff .
My focus was on the simple basics of JESUS OWN teachings . Grown men leading churches
knew nothing about the simplicty of some of what i was saying .
Now the harsh stuff against me came mostly in person on the outside world .
only a couple of times in a church . AND BIG TIME on web sites .
AND YET no matter how badly folks treated me , those who even called themselves christains ,
WAS I EVER TEMPTED TO ABANDON or blame GOD .
SEE most folks blame GOD on their troubles , but then most folks are really DESIRING something else .
GOD is very merciful to me . I was truly the worst of the worst johann .
Had you met me before my conversion , you would have thought there is the devils right hand man .
AND the kicker was , I SURE COULD SEEM NICE , i sure could still do some good works
give money to the poor , BUT I WAS LOST IN and LOVED MY SIN . And man did i love my sin .
IF you knew the sins i committed in the dark , you would have run from this hog .
GOD CHANGES HEARTS N MINDS . IF the change has not occured , THEY DONT KNOW HIM at all . That is a fact .
I should know , i too could lip his name and yet KNEW HIM NOT .
 

Triumph1300

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2018
4,911
5,865
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
We are justified at the very first act of genuine saving faith in Christ, and then baptism follows, and preferably would follow soon, as an outward expression of that inward reality. Genuine saving faith in Christ= Salvation.

It's like this: One young fellow went to a gospel meeting, at the end of the message he went up front and showed his desire to accept Jesus Christ into his life. The speaker explained to him that genuine saving faith would be required.
They both prayed, the young fellow accepted Christ and repented of his sins. Christ came into his life.

The young fellow left the meeting. Drove his car home but never arrived there. Got involved in an accident. Was killed.

(This is an actual story)

DJT-47, is it your opinion this young fellow was not saved because he was not yet baptized in water?
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,915
50,685
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are justified at the very first act of genuine saving faith in Christ, and then baptism follows, and preferably would follow soon, as an outward expression of that inward reality. Genuine saving faith in Christ= Salvation.

It's like this: One young fellow went to a gospel meeting, at the end of the message he went up front and showed his desire to accept Jesus Christ into his life. The speaker explained to him that genuine saving faith would be required.
They both prayed, the young fellow accepted Christ and repented of his sins. Christ came into his life.

The young fellow left the meeting. Drove his car home but never arrived there. Got involved in an accident. Was killed.

(This is an actual story)

DJT-47, is it your opinion this young fellow was not saved because he was not yet baptized in water?
HE WAS SAVED CAUSE HIS FAITH WAS IN JESUS CHRIST .
I was not actually water baptized till a few months after i believed .
TRUTH is i actually recieved the baptism . BAPTISM of the SPIRIT even before i was water baptized .
Now of course i had the SPIRIT on day one . CAUSE its the SPIRIT that even drew me to Christ .
The baptism of the SPIRIT , that occured a bout three months later and then after that
i kept getting unctioned and unctioned and unctioned to get water baptized .
IF the early church did it we do .
BUT YES , YES THAT MAN was saved the MOMENT he came to CHRIST . JUST LIKE I WAS .
Now raise those hands , ITS LORD PRAISING TIME IN THE BUILDING . YES IT IS . LORD PRAISING TIME
in the building and round the world .
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,149
7,481
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Reading your posts is very interesting, but being led by His spirit is very important, to me that means I can do nothing without Him, I think it is good to keep my mind on what He is saying.
Thanks for that Walter....I needed to hear...” I can do nothing without him “....AMEN!!