The Son of Man returns with and for his people
- Thread starter Randy Kluth
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It's a classically poor argument. "Choosing one certain nation is Racist. God is not racist. Therefore God did not choose a certain nation." Except that He did.
Much love!
I said: "Cite the Scripture in which Peter is describing only "part of the Church".
You said: "Cite the Scripture in which Peter universalizes the Hebrew experience".
So what were you saying?
You choose a race.
God chose the faithful and obedient of every race.
You continually strive to forget that Israel was comprised of both Jews and Gentiles.
God was not and is not a racist.
Stop trying to contort Him into one.
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Surely you jest.
Where have I ever denied that? I've repeatedly quoted Acts 10:34,35.
In contrast to your continual attempts to racialize and restrict God, His Gospel, and His Church into something that you've most recently termed the "Hebrew experience".
DavidTaylor
Member
Jesus earlier, also taught of the two Israels.
John 8:31-47
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I'm saying that Peter is only describing part of the church. For me to cite the scripture would be to give the scripture reference to the verse under discussion.
Peter never said that every thing that refers to the Hebrew people now applies to the church.
Are you still whining about God's rewrite of His Will and Testament?
Leave it for those who are grateful for it.
His NT Chosen Holy Nation.
His Church.
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
God chose a race. I showed you the scriptures.
Deuteronomy 4:37
Because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them. And He personally brought you from Egypt by His great power,
Deuteronomy 7:6
For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Perhaps you didn't know but the Bible speaks about two distinct groups of "chosen" people and the locus of the difference is the reason why they were chosen. Perhaps you are thinking of being chosen for eternal life. If so, then you are correct, God is choosing to save a "great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues.
That is one group of "elect." But God also chose a people for himself to be his "people" in a covenant relationship. God never promised the body of Christ that he would give them lots of kids, lots of crops and peace from enemies. But he DID promise the Hebrews to give them lots of kids, lots of crops and peace from enemies. (There is more to this story.)
No, I didn't. I reminded you that the Gentiles who enter Israel were required to obey Moses and receive circumcision. You forgot that.
God chose a race.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
From my perspective, God allowed them to be taken into exile for two reasons. 1) as a punishment. and 2) for their protection. His people were vulnerable to extinction at the hand of her enemies. She has always experienced an existential threat, but being scattered throughout the world, she is safer from a single attack.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
We are talking about 1 Peter chapter 2. Not everything Peter says with regard to the Hebrews is true about the Body of Christ.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
No. I'm serious.
You always deny it.
I have never "racialized" the Gospel or the Church. If that is what you believe I said, then you misread and misconstrued what I said. You just admitted that you didn't realize that the term "elect" is used more than one way in the Bible. That might be the source of your confusion.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Does Acts 10:34,35 deny it?
The NT elect is exclusively the Church.
Nothing to be confused about.
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God slew unfaithful disobedient descendants by the thousands.
He didn't choose the dead.
Yes, they were required to be faithful and obedient, as were the Jews.
There is only one people of God. They are those faithful and obedient to Him and His Son.
They are His Church.
They are named as the exclusive heirs and joint-heirs with Christ in His New Will and Testament.
No others.
The Hebrews in Christ's New Will and Testament are those in His Church.
No others.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
But, what were they chosen for? They were not chosen for salvation as if God wants the people of that nation to be saved and not other nations. Obviously, God wants all people of all nations to be saved. No, their nation was chosen to be the one through which salvation would come to the world. And it did by way of Jesus because He was a Jew.
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