He dealt individually with individuals.
That's not a unit.
He wasn't judging faithful obedient individuals.
He was judging unfaithful disobedient individuals.
All individually.
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The Son of Man returns with and for his people
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That's not a unit.
He wasn't judging faithful obedient individuals.
He was judging unfaithful disobedient individuals.
All individually.
A fraction of individuals were attacked, and hundreds of millions of individuals were not attacked.
He was talking about the elect in the diaspora. He says it himself.
Christian Jews and Gentiles.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Well HE for sure does return in the clouds and calls up believers , BUT ALSO DELIVERS THE VERY WRATH OF GOD
, at that SAME TIME against the beast and all that followed it .
AND i might add . HIS , as in JESUS , TIME IS DRAWING VERY NIGH .
WE just farther along than folks realize .
I don't understand your question.
I was talking about God's promises to Israel made through His prophets, and God's covenant addressed directly to the people from Mt Horeb, and through Moses.
We can talk about God's promises to Abraham if you like. Did you have any other comment on these promises to which I've been referring? The regathering of Israel (the nation as understood in the prophet's day) to her Promised Land at the end of the age? When YHWH comes to earth? That God will always keep that particular nation before Him, that He will rescue them in the day of trouble?
I believe God keeps His promises, and will keep those also. But if you are done with those, we can speak of Abraham.
Much love!
The Diaspora refers to Jews, not gentiles. The idea is that these certain Jews have been scattered as seed in the non-Jewish, that is, gentile nations.
Much love!
The NT elect refers to Christians, both Jew and Gentile. It is not limited to Jews.
Here's one of them, rather specific, I should say!
Jeremiah 31:31 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Here's another,
Jeremiah 31:34 KJV
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
More of the same . . .
Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
God is NOT done with the nation Israel. God keeps His promises.
He will do all for them that He has said will do.
Here's another,
Ezekiel 39:28-29 KJV
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
God is not done with Israel, He will not forget His chosen nation.
Much love!
Hey, I'm just talking about how they used the word. You should look into it, since I don't think you will receive that from me. But that's how they used it. "The diaspora". So there you go!
Much love!
In the NT, "elect" has some various ways it's used, and the context will show us which is meant. "Elect" when Jesus was speaking to the Jews about them as a people meant to them themselves, the Chosen Nation, chosen by God from the rest of the nations. "Maybe God might choose someone else for awhile" I think is the quip.
This is an example of the Grammatical Historical Hermeneutic, just a fancy way of saying, we go by what the word meant to the person who used it. And no Jew in Jesus' day spoke of gentiles as being "the chosen".
No, we need to see how each writer uses the words they use, and not just stop with a single entry definition. In some cases we have very limited examples to review their context, but in this case there are a lot, and there is lot's of information available in the Bible towards how we understand how they used the word.
Much love!
Not all that were born of Abraham are counted for the seed. Well, you can read Romans 9, how God qualifies whom are the children of Abraham. Those who are faithful. Not his unfaithful progeny. Only those through Isaac. Only those through Jacob. Only those faithful.
Are you remembering Abraham was promised to be the father of "many nations"? Who would those nations be? Why plural nations?
These are some of the details I pay attention to.
Much love!
It is the NT Church, and no one else, who is the NT Chosen Holy Nation. It is the NT Church, and no one else, who is identified as the NT elect.
What the Jews spoke of is irrelevant.
Do you believe God will keep His promises to Israel given through Ezekiel, and Jeremiah, and Isaiah, and Joel, an more?
Much love!
OK then. I'm thinking that since we are reading things they spoke of, maybe what they spoke of, and how, is in fact relevant.
It's like saying, I'm going to take this car for a spin. Read that in 2000 years from now, having an entirely different language family, you'd think I'm going to twirl a machine or something like that. But hey, this car's hot! Temperature? Stolen? Fast? I think it helps us to understand the contexts and the speakers and their audience. That way we can better interpret their words as they, not us, as they meant them.
Much love!
I believe that God has already kept His promises, because they are fulfilled in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.
They are fulfilled in no others.
Here's a primer.
In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.
The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.
If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:
"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."
This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.
Thus we see:
Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:
Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.
There is none greater.
We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:
Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.
Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.
If you deny that God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things, you declare God to be a liar.
His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:
Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Such as:
Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Additional promissory clauses in...:
Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
...declare that we who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.
But notice:
There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...
Who is not in Christ.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Regardless, God's covenant was with a nation, a people, not individuals.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I asked you: Are there two spiritual houses of God that have Jesus Christ as the cornerstone? What is your answer to that question? I can't tell from what you said here.
We know that the church is a spiritual house of God that has Jesus Christ as the cornerstone (Eph 2:19-22), right? Is there any other? Yes or no? If yes, then please tell me what it is.
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