One Creed to live by and die for...

[APAK]

Nothing is more confusing then trying to prove that "God manifested in the Flesh" is not God.
You can keep trying.
But it wont succeed.

Look.

"Which" "Who" "That'........is still "I AM"..
Translate it however you like.

Also,

The Father was Greater than Jesus, the MAN's Body, but not Jesus the Holy Spirit.....as 'Christ is That Spirit".

See this is...>"Let us make Man in OUR Image".......and that is not the BODY of Adam, that is the Spirit of God, in Adam.

Once Jesus was resurrected He returned to ..."All power is given me, in HEAVEN and on EARTH"....this is John 1....."The Word WAS God".

Are you kidding me Behold. God Almighty DID NOT manifest into a man, his prized creation. His, Father God, expression of thoughts and mind and power was manifested or declared and shared within/ inside his human son he created. This is one of the mysteries of godliness or of one of many godly thing of the Father LORD God. This is far from his son now being the same God. It is very illogical and does not play well in scripture.

Moreover, most of the translations of 1 Timothy 3:16 have God absent in the text. It was added in by biased translaters and scribes as you are of their faith and bias. So now you might understand you are believing some corrupted versions of this verse under study.

What the heck Behold, I will go all out for you and explain this subject in much more detail and I hope you read it all......mostly from my own work and from other contributors of my cloth of belief.

------------here goes-----------get your eyes and glasses on-----------------

The word ‘God’ was added into this verse deliberately in a few translations to say that God was Jesus who was revealed in the flesh. The KJV lead the way.

Additionally, the passage does not read ‘in the flesh. It says, ‘in flesh’ or as a human being. Some translation read “in a body.”

The word ‘eusebias’ translated as ‘godliness’ is the best translation into English, although still an incomplete thought in its translation.

Christ is that fleshly manifestation of His (God’s) mystery.

The oldest manuscripts do not have the word ‘God’ or in Greek, ‘theos’ in this verse. Fortunately, modern translators have completed omitted this most probable translators’ error.

Instead of God, they used the word ‘He,’ ‘Who’ or ‘Which’ instead.

NIV 1984 edition - “HE appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit...”

NASB 1995 edition - “HE WHO was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit...”

RSV - “HE was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit...”

ESV 2001 - “HE (R10) was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit...” Footnote 10 - Greek Who; some manuscripts God; others Which.

Holman Standard 2003 - “HE was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit”

ISV (International Standard Version) - “In flesh was HE revealed to sight, Kept righteous by the Spirit's might”

Catholic Douay-Rheims 1582 - “And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, WHICH was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels,”

Catholic Douay 1950 - "great is the mystery of godliness: WHICH was manifested in the flesh"

St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 - “HE was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit...”

Catholic New Jerusalem bible 1985 - “HE was made visible in the flesh, justified in the Spirit...”

Catholic Public Domain Version 2009 - "this mystery of piety, which was manifested in the flesh"


Another clear issue with using ‘God’ for the Greek word ‘euebias,’ is that if we just keep reading further into the verse, it says that God was justified in the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the Gentiles, was believed on in the world, and he was received into glory. This would be nonsense as Christ did all these things and not his Father. Unless one wants to use circular logic and say Jesus is God because God who is really Jesus did all these things in the verse, and not just the man and the anointed of God, is Son, Yahshua.

So, the best translated section of passage should read ‘…great is the mystery of godliness who was revealed in flesh…’ This interpretation says that the secret of Godly thoughts and plans, his word (and holiness, piety and godliness) for our salvation was revealed in a human being. His name is Jesus Christ or Yahshua, and not his Father of his (Holy) Spirit.

Paul tells us how the hidden truth of God’s word was his own kept secret until now, regarding the plan of our salvation and how he would bring this salvation to us. He revealed it though his created Son, Jesus Christ.

God’s truth and plan of salvation was revealed with his word of, and through a man called Jesus whom God himself created, as the last Adam.

Jesus was justified as the bearer of the truth and God’s holiness because he had the Spirit of God residing within him. He was no ordinary man because his human nature was spotless or sinless because the Spirit was always in him. He was born in God’s Spirit. God was always with him. The man was not God, although what was in him. it was his Father’s Spirit.

Jesus was seen by the angels and people heard him preach the great news about salvation to the nations. People believed in Jesus as the Son of God and his Father’s mission on earth. Jesus triumphed culminating by his Father raising him from death, into immortality. (Reference John 17)

Similarly, John 1:14 tells us that the word (messages and the voice of purpose) of God became part of performance of a human being, of the flesh (human body with (sinless) human nature). This Son of Man sacrificed himself for us without asking anything of us in return (grace) except, for us to believe in him and his Father who sent him. He represented his Father, and he was sent to complete the Father’s plan and mission of salvation for us. In so doing, he also carried the truth of God within him. We all saw this truth displayed as his glory (of holy works) as the glory only given to the one and only Son of God, Jesus Messiah.


Other references of the corruption of 1 Tim 3:16

Sourced from Acts 17:11 and the noble Bereans

First we will look at a screenshot of a Greek interlinear of 1 Timothy 3:16 and can verify that the word "God" is not in here, but rather "who" instead.



---------------continued below-------------read on Behold------

 

[APAK]

Next, we can look at a Greek Lexicon of 1 Timothy 3:16, which verifies the Greek interlinear.

View attachment 33075


Next, we can look at the Mounce reverse Greek interlinear of 1 Timothy 3:16.

View attachment 33076


Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest complete Greek new testament in existence, dating back to the 4th century.

View attachment 33077


1 Tim 3:16 in the Lamsa bible - Aramaic text - 5th century.

View attachment 33078


St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405A.D. of 1 Timothy 3:16 in Google translate.

View attachment 33079

Armenian bible – translated from the Peshitta Syriac text in 411AD of I Timothy 3:16
and openly in the godly counsel, manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, was believed in heaven and glory.

The NET BIBLE is a completely new translation of the Bible! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

View attachment 33080https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy+3&version=NET
Coptic text – from ancient Egyptian – 4th & 9th century AD of I Timothy 3:16
'^ And confessedly, great is the mystery of the godliness, *that
which was manifested in (the) flesh, was justified in the sjnrit [spirit],
was manifested unto the angels, was proclaimed among the
ncdions [nations], was believed in the tuorld [world], was taken up away
^ Lit. 'be, having become.' ^ Or 'he who.

Near the bottom of the page, look at some quoted highlights of the footnote: [My clarifications are in square brackets]

“It appears that sometime after the 2nd century the θεός [Theos = God] reading came into existence, either via confusion with ὅς [hos = who] or as an intentional alteration to magnify Christ and clear up the syntax at the same time. Once it got in, this theologically rich reading was easily able to influence all the rest of the mss [manuscripts] it came in contact with (including mss already written, such as אA C D). That this reading did not arise until after the 2nd century is evident from the Western reading, ὅ [which].
As TCGNT [Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament] 574 notes,
“no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεός [Theos = God]; all ancient versions presuppose ὅς [hos = who] or ὅ [ho = which]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός [theos].”
Definition of Patristic
pa·tris·tic [puh-tris-tik]
adjective
of or pertaining to the fathers of the Christian church or their writings.

In light of the last fact (and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός [Theos = God].”), it is interesting to note that the third part of the trinity had just come into being by the commandments of men in 381A.D.

Encyclopedia Britannica on Council-of-Constantinople
“Council of Constantinople, (381), the second ecumenical council of the Christian church, summoned by the emperor Theodosius I and meeting in Constantinople. Doctrinally, it promulgated what became known to the church as the Nicene Creed; it also declared finally the Trinitarian doctrine of the equality of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son.”

Thus, some of the newer texts that read theos [God] were changed many centuries after the bible was already written and contradicts all the oldest uncial manuscripts. Therefore, they are a deliberate corruption of I Timothy 3:16. The companion bible details how it happened.

Screenshot of the Companion Reference Bible; notes on I Timothy 3:16.

Notice that in the blue box, I Timothy 4:1 is highlighted.

Immediately after the Felony Forgery of I Timothy 3:16, I Timothy 4:1 speaks for itself:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

View attachment 33081


Facsimile of the Codex Alexandrinus
“Tregelles writes, "The ink in which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent application" (An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854). Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh."”

1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex Alexandrinus

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the photographic facsimile volume published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh," employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation.

However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line.

Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh." In the photograph below the ΘC in 3:16 is circled. Further down, in verse 4:3, there is another ΘC circled for comparison.

View attachment 33082

His Father promised and gave Jesus immortality for the first time in his existence, after his death on the Cross. It was the grace of God his Father. This is what is meant by godliness in 1 Tim 3:16; this mysterious or incomprehensible act by God, the Father, and our Father that transformed his Son from a human to an immortal.

 

[Enoch111]

Hear, O Israel: Our God YHWH—YHWH [is] one!

שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה ׀ אֶחָֽד ׃ (reading from right to left)
Shema Yisrael, Yahweh Elohenu Yahweh Echad
Hear Israel, Yahweh our GOD Yahweh [is] one. (Literal Interlinear)

Elohenu = our God Elohim = masculine plural noun.

How can God be one yet plural? Because God is one God, eternally existent as three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

Traditions man was what Jesus spoke against. Therefore search and seek God out, by use of the scripture and discover the power of the Word that came forth from Him.

I kind of would like to a painting of God's spirit in a sense with a tongue coming out with a whisk which at the tip a bit outwards would be the yet uncreated world, and even God's spirit hovering over the waters of a voided formless world?


Maybe. Word of God, people really wanna try to chide and say it's just the word word we speak.

Yah, God spoke words and when he speak he created light. God gave his Word the power to create.

See this is not a tradition, this is just looking at the bible itself.

 

[MatthewG]

To fight over this stuff is really really childish. God bless.

And may God guide you.

 

[Heart2Soul]

It was yesterday, that a MOD came to you, on my Thread, and had a suggestion regarding your "Disrespectful" spamming Memes.

Please quote me in the right context.

 

[Patrick1966]

I am really coming back from the chemotherapy now. I can walk a ways and the shortness of breath will always be with part of one lung missing... but with God's help I am moving up.

May God bless you my brother.

 

[Patrick1966]

The NET BIBLE is a completely new translation of the Bible! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

Do you believe that they correctly translated Matthew 25:46?

Matthew 25:46
New English Translation
46 And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Behold]

Are you kidding me Behold. God Almighty DID NOT manifest into a man,

Its true.

1 Timothy 3:16

God became a man.

John 1:10. Jesus created the World

 

[Behold]

Please quote me in the right context.

Behold said:
""""It was yesterday, that a MOD came to you, on my Thread, and had a suggestion regarding your "Disrespectful" spamming Memes."""""


Heart2Soul said :

""the use of a meme to establish your viewpoint is neither valid nor scriptural and in my opinion it is offensive to the solid truth in scripture.
Meme's tend to be a demonstration of disrespect and disregard to the topic at hand. There is a meme thread if you want to communicate your thoughts in such a way.""

 

[APAK]

שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה ׀ אֶחָֽד ׃ (reading from right to left)
Shema Yisrael, Yahweh Elohenu Yahweh Echad
Hear Israel, Yahweh our GOD Yahweh [is] one. (Literal Interlinear)

Elohenu = our God Elohim = masculine plural noun.

How can God be one yet plural? Because God is one God, eternally existent as three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה אֶחָֽד
Transliteration - shema Yisrael Yahweh elohenu Yahweh ehad
Meaning - Listen Israel Yahweh our God Yahweh one
Part of speech - verb noun noun noun noun noun or adjective
Function - command name name noun + pronominal suffix name number
Definiteness - N/A definite definite definite definite non-definite

Enoch, you are correct in your restatement and recitation of the famous Shema, those famous 6 words that are unique in sentence construction. And 'Elohei(y)nu' is a masculine plural. And sometimes it is spoken and written as 'El-oheynu.'

So this plural name of El-oheynu, why cannot it also denote 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or more deity personalities with your obvious thinking? Why just settle for 3 as your consistent default thought and belief on this type of subject?

And while you are at it, why does 'echad' mean only one (personality), as in cardinal one, alone, single, and not a 'compound one' or a 'unity of one' as the latter is never found or supported in scripture?

The Hebrew word "אֶחָֽד" (echad/ehad) is used in literally hundreds of places throughout the OT. In Genesis 1:5 it refers to "Day 1" of creation. The word "echad" is the literal number "1" in Hebrew, spelled out (like English "one"). Notice the leading "aleph" in its spelling. Hebrew numbers follow the consonants in its "alephbet" (alphabet), beginning with the "aleph" as 1, and continuing. They have complete spellings for their words as well, but just the "aleph" (א) by itself would be the numerical digit in Hebrew for the cardinal number "1".

Abraham was one echad in Ezek. 33:24 - '..only one man..'). In Isaiah 51:2 e is also described as 'one.' Cardinal one!

Depending on the context, "echad" might also be used as an ordinal number to denote 'first'. In Genesis 1:5, it is the 'first' day. No serious student or scholar would ever attempt to persuade that "echad" in Genesis 1 referred to a 'compound unity.'

And why is LORD or YHWH a masculine singular noun and not a plural noun? And is always accompanied by a singular verb or pronoun, 1000s of times, and in this case along with Eloheinu, that is plural?

Now this is where it gets a little confusing in conjugating some words from the Hebrew into English.

The plural 1st person possessive of אֱלֹהִים Elohim, means “our God”.
אלהים "elohi(y)m" is also technically plural. It refers to a different kind of plural conjugation which doesn't exist in English. It means "The (one) God which we all have a unique relationship with which is different for each of us".


Yes,אלהינו "eloheynu" is also (technically) plural as you said. And it also refers to a quite different type of plural conjugate not exiting in the English tongue. It's read more as..."The (one) God which we all mutually have a relationship with."

In short, due to the nature of the English language and its usage in especially the modern culture the exact distinction and understanding of these two Hebrew words is not readily intuitive by a long shot.

Elohim (a plural word) and uses a singular verb with that word, to indicate that He is one God, not many.

For example "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" Genesis 1:1 "Bereshit bara Elohim et ha shamayim veet ha aretz". Bara is 'created', singular.

Occasionally He uses a plural verb, like when He refers to the creation of man in His image "And God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness" "Vayomer Elohim, naase adam betzalmenu kidmuteinu" naase let us make, plural verb, in our image, after our likeness.

Eli is 'my God', singular, from El
Elohai is 'my God' plural, from Elohim
both are referring to the one and only God, not to many gods.

Eloheinu is 'our God', plural. I can't think of a singular word for 'our God' in the Bible. But this plural word is used for the one God, and as such takes a singular verb, usually.

"Hear o Israel the LORD our God is one LORD" Deuteronomy 6:4 "Shma Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad" Eloheinu is the plural word, but he is clarifying He is one. The way I see it is a plurality within a unity and only for one unique purpose - The one God, creator of heaven and earth, as expressed as plurality of majesty and in the court and council of heavenly beings.

When talking about idols, the gods of the nations, the word Elohim is sometimes used, but it takes a plural verb.

I must say that you attempt to counter or oppose the Creed of the Shema with its original intent by imposing a new type of foreign god(s) imprint upon it, again is a fools errand. Like trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

It don't work because you belief in another YHWH of an actual plurality I afraid, and only 3, not even remotely considered in the inspired words of God (singular, one person). Do you think that YHWH, our LORD God would share or give up his supreme sovereignty with another inferior foreign gods, or one of his own creation, to be equal, on par with himself in all ways and in every way. I think not.

Thanks for your input.

 

[APAK]

To fight over this stuff is really really childish. God bless.

And may God guide you.

You know what is childish Matthew is the fact that you think this is a spat of no consequence. If you are really serious about your maker and spiritual life you need to know who he is and why he is. And a great way to start is to know the Shema that Christ also recited about his Father.

It is not I that fight in this thread. I am the messenger. It is those that despise the message that cannot help themselves to cause strife etc.

Great Day.... APAK

 

[Behold]

It is not I that fight in this thread. I am the messenger.

You are the "messenger"?

Here is your message.
Be sure you get it out.

2 Corinthians 5:19


Also....


"Let us make man in OUR image".

"Jesus was in the world and the world was MADE by Him"

"God Spoke", and "Jesus is the Word, made flesh"

"Jesus said, I am from above, and you are from below".

Jesus is the "God Man".

 

[APAK]

Do you believe that they correctly translated Matthew 25:46?

Matthew 25:46
New English Translation
46 And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Are you presenting a very loaded question here Patrick?

Well you know the term 'eternal' can only mean age-limiting and not really for good, for forever and ever. And then that begs the question if those being punished for an age only, we do not know what this punishment is exactly...can speculate though. And then the other question comes to mind, if some are only punished for an age, those approved/accepted and are righteous are they living only for the same age and not forever and ever?

You see the local context is about giving and caring for people in need etc, and in so doing, God and his Son count these acts of love and kindness to righteousness. Now we cannot always help others, although if impresses upon pur heart WE NEED to be there for others. This is the love of God speaking within us. We have the spirit of Christ within us.

I believe that the verse says that there will be penalties or time-outs for people not of Christ and his Father and it will be limited in scope and time. And for those genuine believers, the righteous ones, we will be with God and his Son for a time beyond an age, forever with our Creator in the New Jerusalem, at least as we are told per scripture. And nothing beyond that point...

 

[MatthewG]

Hi friend it was a general assessment, nothing personal. Love to you, and you also have a great day, Apak.

 

[APAK]

Hi friend it was a general assessment, nothing personal. Love to you, and you also have a great day, Apak.

Same to you bro....be at peace with yourself and God..amen

 

[Behold]

I believe that the verse says that there will be penalties or time-outs for people not of Christ and his Father and it will be limited in scope and time.

Eternal life is not "temporary", as you are trying to twist it.

So, just as the Born again have '"eternal life" who is Jesus Himself....."I am THE LIFE".... John 14:6, so then the Christ rejector, does not have Jesus as their "eternal life", and so, for them, they exist outside of Christ, not being "IN CHRIST".

Their problem is this.....

John 3:36

Its that word : """ REMAINS."""" AS that is God's Wrath, and in this case, its eternal.

God's wrath REMAINS on them,...which denies that there is a "time out" or a "end to their damnation",

The 2nd Death, is for the Christ Rejector, exactly as Eternal life is for the Born again.

 

[Episkopos]

Hear, O Israel: Our God YHWH—YHWH [is] one!
And you have loved your God YHWH with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.(Deuteronomy 6:4-5) (LSV)

What makes sense to me and something that includes Jesus in the divine Godhead...is this.

By simply adding in a straight little letter (line) ...which could easily be missed by the scribes doing the copying (maybe thinking it was a mistake) ... a vav...which means AND in Hebrew looks like this... ו

The reading would then say...
Hear O Israel, the YHVH our God AND the YHVH ARE One (Echad)!

Both make the plural ...Elohim.

In Hebrew there is no verb "to be"...so then the "is" as in "is ONE" could also be an "are ONE."

Anywhere in the bible where the "one" is stated it means two things becoming ...or being...One.

Examples are... a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall be made ONE (echad) flesh

Another example is in Ezekiel where the stick of Ephraim and the stick of Judah become ONE (echad) stick in His hand.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this! :)

 

[amadeus]

Stay in peace and in the light of God always my friend ...I remember VN and I'm a vet of that era, and you are an older VN vet than I..

Aye, it was really so many years ago [1964-1965 for me], but many of the experiences there seem like only yesterday.

..and when a scribe spoke to Jesus of his belief in the Shema of the LORD GOD being one, Jesus replies to him in verse 34 below.

(Mar 12:32) And the scribe said to Him, “Well, Teacher, in truth You have spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He;
(Mar 12:33) and to love Him out of all the heart, and out of all the understanding, and out of all the soul, and out of all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as one’s self, is more than all the whole burnt-offerings and the sacrifices.”
(Mar 12:34) And Jesus, having seen him that he answered with understanding, said to him, “You are not far from the Kingdom of God”; and no one dared question Him anymore.

Jesus is saying one's belief and faith in the Creed of the Shema of the one indivisible one God and YHWH, is the prerequisite for one wishing to enter and being reborn into the Kingdom of God. The other was Jesus himself as our saviour. We must have both in mind and heart. The Kingdom is within you John as you have sought it and reached it by my reckoning, as I also.

Belief in the Creed of the Shema and in God's Messiah is the gateway and key into the Kingdom.....

Bless you John for all your work here on this site. It has been and continues to be heartfelt and rewarding and generally edifying to me and others.


APAK

Amen! Give God the glory old friend!

 

[APAK]

Hear, O Israel: Our God YHWH—YHWH [is] one!
And you have loved your God YHWH with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.(Deuteronomy 6:4-5) (LSV)

What makes sense to me and something that includes Jesus in the divine Godhead...is this.

By simply adding in a straight little letter (line) ...which could easily be missed by the scribes doing the copying (maybe thinking it was a mistake) ... a vav...which means AND in Hebrew looks like this... ו

The reading would then say...
Hear O Israel, the YHVH our God AND the YHVH ARE One (Echad)!

Both make of the plural Elohim.

In Hebrew there is no verb "to be"...so then the "is" as in "is ONE" could also be an "are ONE."

Anywhere in the bible where the "one" is stated it means two things becoming ...or being...One.

Examples are... a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall be made ONE (echad)

Another example is in Ezekiel where the stick of Ephraim and the stick of Judah become ONE (echad) in His hand.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this! :)

Hey Epi...it's an interesting theory, the Shema missing 'vav' theory. And it would make your Binitarian stance very plausible indeed. And then you would have to address other areas of extensive scripture to see if all 'fell' into place easily and in harmony like completing a jig-saw puzzle without brute forcing it left with ragged edges and tabs and pieces left over without a home in the process......;)

....On quite a different topic and somehow I'm thinking it has a connection to your topic and this thread in general.

And since you are in Canada. I've had a Life Insurance policy account with some folks in Toronto for over 35 years now. After 2 months of headache they finally fixed a critical error of not processing my premium payments and posting them in my account.

Ironically, the initial cause of my engagement with them before this critical fix is back again after the fix. No, it's not a riddle.

The initial symptom of a potential problem that evolved into non-payment occurred weeks before. I thought their accounting and billing software has/had errors that I at least experienced that I now know does not apply to me or affect my account.

My voice began when I went online to see a caution or warning about a billing segment stopped, and to call to get it restarted. I reckoned I would have future issues if I did not fix it immediately. Well clearing this caution note which they did for me, caused the non-payment problem a couple of weeks or so later. I will now leave things alone as they were.....as they know their software and I do not, looking in from the outside of things..

Great week to you Epi....