The Crucified Flesh

[Marvelloustime]

Men have caused discernement , correction , truth , warnings and all that was and is good for the body of Christ
to now be disregaurded .
But let us keep it real simple . Let all warnings , reminders , truth simply be spoken or typed .
It falls where it falls my friend .
For years folks have come against what they call bitter . But some do hear . The truth
simply must be spoken and it shall fall upon whom it shall fall .
Men , who crept in to decieve , have taught the peoples to beware what things you do say .
That speaking truths might harm some or run some off . But i say , SIMPLY SPEAK THE WORD
and GOD alone shall plant it and many will reject it . Let he or she who has ears to hear
simply love and embrace all reminders of all holy scrips . Whether grave or compassionate
whether by fear hating even the garment spotted by the flesh . JUST SPEAK , TYPE and DO as the SPIRIT BIDS TO DO .
For years many have fought the things that were not smooth sounding unto them .
And have balked and accused anyone who comes to truly exhort .
Many have said AWAY with the pure and holy unadulterated words of GOD . GIVE US NO MORE warnings
TELL US NO MORE about repentance , GIVE US this inclusive love god that tells us all is fine , all religoins are good
and we are fine as is .

 

[amigo de christo]

I think that Jesus can manage His own flock without your help! Do you think that Jesus is not sovereign or do you think that He is powerless?

Peter , paul , james nor others thought JESUS was powerless . But they sure did teach , rebuke , correct and watch over the flock .
FEED MY SHEEP . Its the duty of the lambs who are seasoned to take care of the flocks .
Dont bother with your usual response , like trying to accuse me of thinking i am paul or peter or your yawn .
I do what i do out of love for the peoples . Progressivsim is of the devil and i sure wish many had not taken that road .

 

[Johann]

Peter , paul , james nor others thought JESUS was powerless . But they sure did teach , rebuke , correct and watch over the flock .
FEED MY SHEEP . Its the duty of the lambs who are seasoned to take care of the flocks .
Dont bother with your usual response , like trying to accuse me of thinking i am paul or peter or your yawn .
I do what i do out of love for the peoples . Progressivsim is of the devil and i sure wish many had not taken that road .

Keep on doing what you are doing brother.
Johann

 

[Marvelloustime]

Peter , paul , james nor others thought JESUS was powerless . But they sure did teach , rebuke , correct and watch over the flock .
FEED MY SHEEP . Its the duty of the lambs who are seasoned to take care of the flocks .
Dont bother with your usual response , like trying to accuse me of thinking i am paul or peter or your yawn .
I do what i do out of love for the peoples . Progressivsim is of the devil and i sure wish many had not taken that road .

 

[Jim B]

Men have caused discernement , correction , truth , warnings and all that was and is good for the body of Christ
to now be disregaurded .
But let us keep it real simple . Let all warnings , reminders , truth simply be spoken or typed .
It falls where it falls my friend .
For years folks have come against what they call bitter . But some do hear . The truth
simply must be spoken and it shall fall upon whom it shall fall .
Men , who crept in to decieve , have taught the peoples to beware what things you do say .
That speaking truths might harm some or run some off . But i say , SIMPLY SPEAK THE WORD
and GOD alone shall plant it and many will reject it . Let he or she who has ears to hear
simply love and embrace all reminders of all holy scrips . Whether grave or compassionate
whether by fear hating even the garment spotted by the flesh . JUST SPEAK , TYPE and DO as the SPIRIT BIDS TO DO .
For years many have fought the things that were not smooth sounding unto them .
And have balked and accused anyone who comes to truly exhort .
Many have said AWAY with the pure and holy unadulterated words of GOD . GIVE US NO MORE warnings
TELL US NO MORE about repentance , GIVE US this inclusive love god that tells us all is fine , all religoins are good
and we are fine as is .

GIVE US NO MORE warnings! TELL US NO MORE about repentance! GIVE US this inclusive love god that tells us about!!!

Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[Jim B]

Peter , paul , james nor others thought JESUS was powerless . But they sure did teach , rebuke , correct and watch over the flock .
FEED MY SHEEP . Its the duty of the lambs who are seasoned to take care of the flocks .
Dont bother with your usual response , like trying to accuse me of thinking i am paul or peter or your yawn .
I do what i do out of love for the peoples . Progressivsim is of the devil and i sure wish many had not taken that road .

Its the duty of the lambs who are seasoned to take care of the flocks? Where in Scripture does it say that sheep are to shepherd themselves??? WE HAVE A SHEPHERD: JESUS CHRIST!!! We are His people, the sheep of His pasture.

Your writing that "I do what i do out of love for the peoples" is very sad. You do not love people!!! You judge and condemn them!

1 Corinthians 13:4-5, "Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs"

You clearly have no understanding of what Biblical love is! You are not patient! You are not kind! You insist on your own way! You keep a record of everyone's wrongs, but fail to see your own!

 

[Jim B]

Many have come to and embraced an ideal , an image of JESUS that is not JESUS
and an image of GOD that is not GOD . They follow a love that cometh not of GOD but is of the world .
Correction shall not cease . Nor the words of truth from the mouth of a lamb . For it is GOD who giveth .
The warnings are for OUR GOOD and not for our destruction . That we be mindful of all things written and follow
THAT GOD and HIS CHRIST . A serious , grievious and deadly error has occured .
The leaders preach smooth things unto the people , they are for numbers and money and have made the church
into their business and a business . They have preached a gospel that cannot save
and a love that is not of GOD and worse the peoples love to have it so . But what will ye do in the END thereof .

Once again you are condemning those who God has chosen! Just like Satan!

 

[Marvelloustime]

 

[Jim B]

They have made buddy jesus who gets us . But that is NO JESUS .
JESUS came not to accept our sinful ways nor to embrace the sinner IN HIS SINFUL ways .
HE came to SAVE SINNERS from THEIR WAYS . To give them a new heart
that loveth what GOD LOVES and not what the world loves .

And once they have a new heart YOU CONTINUE TO JUDGE AND CONDEMN THEM!!!

 

[Jim B]

He was crucified for our sins and raised again for our justification that we would walk in rigtheousness by the power of the SPIRIT .
If ya jesus is holding rainbows , big on pro nouns , claiming muslims and others follow GOD or know GOD . IT AINT JESUS .
IF we want to know the JESUS we follow IS THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST , i suggest we DELVE DEEP into the gospels .
IF we want to know if our leaders truly follow the pattern the apostels set and taught , I SUGGEST WE DELVE DEEP INTO THEIR LETTERS .
cause men are DECIEVING US . Wolves in sheeps clothing have infiltrated many houses and many churches .

Once again you are condemning other Christians! Have you looked in the mirror lately?

 

[amigo de christo]

Once again you are condemning those who God has chosen! Just like Satan!

those who reject Christ condemn themselves jim . Those who reject the TRUTH condemn themselves jim .
You give all a pass , mulims , abortion , progressive lies , but its YOU who condemn and accuse those who simply
bring reminders and point out that which is false . You go with the flow of whatever feels right .
As far as love your nieghbor , loving your enemies . You hate them . Muslims dont worship the same GOD we do
but YOU say they do . Its you who has been taken in a false love that only condmens those who actually bring the truth .

 

[Jim B]

The true leaders of any churches would not have changed their message to appease and to please the crowd .
They would have simply been concerned with the welfare of their soul .
The message has been changed and more so as time goes on .
Till now if one even asks questions concering certain sins and ideals , they are asked to leave the churches .
Away with the true and holy biblical pattern and all who teach it has now become the mantra .
As the leaders preach ever smooth things unto their ever ready ears . The lambs heed them not .
The lambs shall contend for the one true faith , following the SPIRIT and all sound doctrine that was given us in the bible for our learning .

And again you are condemning other Christians! WHY DO YOU HATE THE BODY OF CHRIST!!! HATING HIS BODY IS HATING HIM!!!

 

[Jim B]

those who reject Christ condemn themselves jim . Those who reject the TRUTH condemn themselves jim .
You give all a pass , mulims , abortion , progressive lies , but its YOU who condemn and accuse those who simply
bring reminders and point out that which is false . You go with the flow of whatever feels right .
As far as love your nieghbor , loving your enemies . You hate them . Muslims dont worship the same GOD we do
but YOU say they do . Its you who has been taken in a false love that only condmens those who actually bring the truth .

You are clearly lying!!! Why are you so deceived???

You right (in your usual strange English) "As far as love your nieghbor , loving your enemies . You hate them" I am not the one preaching hatred, YOU ARE!!!

It is tragic that you think that you actually bring the truth!!! God loves the world; you hate the world, including those whom God has called! YOU ARE CONSUMED WITH HATRED!!!

 

[Ritajanice]

equate the word of God to condemnation. God is love.

◄ Romans 8 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Johann]

​

◄ Romans 8 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Johann]

Do you struggle?
The textual evidence dealing with the question, "Is Paul referring to a saved or unsaved person in Rom. 7:14-25?" is as follows

1. Unsaved person

a. This was the interpretation of the early Greek speaking church Fathers

b. The following phrases support this view

(1) "I am of flesh," Rom. 7:14

(2) "sold into bondage to sin," Rom. 7:14

(3)"nothing good dwells in me," Rom. 7:18

(4) "making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members," Rom. 7:23

(5) "wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?" Rom. 7:24

c. The immediate context of Romans 6 is that we are free from the mastery of sin. The context of chap. 8 starts with "so then."

d. The absence of any reference to the Spirit or Christ until the close of this context (Rom. 7:25).

2. Saved person

a. This was the interpretation of Augustine, Calvin, and the Reformed tradition

b. The following phrases support this view

(1) "we know that the Law is spiritual," Rom. 7:14

(2) "I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good," Rom. 7:16

(3) "the good that I wish, I do not do...," Rom. 7:19

(4) "I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man," Rom. 7:22

c. The larger context of Romans places Romans 7 in the section dealing with sanctification.

d. The obvious change of verb tenses from imperfect and aorists in Rom. 7:7-13 to the consistent use of the present tense in Rom. 7:14-24 imply a different and new section of Paul's life (i.e., conversion).

D. The more a believer strives toward Christlikeness, the more he experiences his/her own sinfulness. This paradox fits well this context and the personality of Paul (and, for that matter, most believers; for an opposite view see Gordon Fee, Paul, The Spirit, and the People of God).

A line from a Lutheran hymn by Henry Twells:

"And none, O Lord, has perfect rest,

For none is wholly free from sin;

And they who faint would serve Thee best

Are conscious most of wrong within."

I think Paul was struggling with his Pharisaic past which gave a structure to his presentation of "Law" and "sin/death." However, I am also impacted by my own struggle with temptation and sin after salvation. It has surely colored my interpretation. I think Gordon Fee, Paul, the Spirit, and the People of God, represents another valid Christian's experience and perspective. One thing I know, the tension or conflict between

1. old age - new age

2. old man - new man

3. law - spirit

has been dealt with in Christ! Victory is ours. Never focus on Romans 7 without noting Romans 6 and 8. Victory is ours in Him!

E. Sun (preposition in Rom. 8:32) compounds in Romans 8

v. 16 - sun + witness/testify

v. 17 - sun + heir

v. 17 - sun + suffer

v. 17 - sun + glorify

v. 22 - sun + groan

v. 22 - sun + birth pains

v. 26 - sun + take hold of

v. 28 - sun + work with/cooperate

v. 29 - sun +conformed

These compounds denote "joint participation with" or "cooperation with."

7:20 "sin which dwells in me" It is interesting that the book of Romans so clearly shows humanity's sin, but there is no mention of Satan until 16:20. Humans cannot blame Satan for their sin problem. We have a choice. Sin is personified as a king, tyrant, slave owner. It tempts and lures us to independence from God, to self assertion at any cost. Paul's personification of sin linked to human choice reflects Gen. 4:7.

Paul uses the term "dwells" several times in this chapter (cf. Rom. 7:17,18,20). The sin nature is not destroyed or removed at salvation, but made potentially inoperative. Its continuing powerlessness depends on our cooperation with the indwelling Spirit (cf. Rom. 8:9,11). God has provided for believers all that is necessary to combat personified (literary) and personal (Satan and the demonic) evil. It is the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. As we accept God's free gift of salvation, so too, we must accept God's gift of the effective deterrent of the Holy Spirit. Salvation and the Christian life are a daily process that begins and ends with believers' daily decisions. God has provided all that we need: the Spirit (Romans 8), spiritual armor (Eph. 6:11), revelation (Eph. 6:17), and prayer (Eph. 6:18).

The battle is fierce (Romans 7), but the battle is won (Romans 8).

 

[Lizbeth]

What is foundational-is Christ Jesus, Him crucified, Him resurrected
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.


Rom_15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

1Co_3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1Co_3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Co_3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Eph_1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph_2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Heb_1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Heb_4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb_6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb_9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1Pe_1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

--so your "foundation" is to solidify "sinless perfectionism"--this is how you interpret the Scriptures--good news Paul never claimed what you claim.--and you quote the very scripture to another sister-proving that Paul "did not yet arrived"-but you have.
Maybe the Wesleyan Movement is still strong here-with their "second blessings"

I am really not interested in your opinions, not being facetious.

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Not that (ouch hoti). To guard against a misunderstanding as in Joh_6:26; Joh_12:6; 2Co_1:24; Php_4:11, Php_4:17.

I have already obtained (ēdē elabon). Rather, “I did already obtain,” constative second aorist active indicative of lambanō, summing up all his previous experiences as a single event.

Or am already made perfect (ē ēdē teteleiōmai). Perfect passive indicative (state of completion) of teleioō, old verb from teleios and that from telos (end).

Paul pointedly denies that he has reached a spiritual impasse of non- development. Certainly he knew nothing of so-called sudden absolute perfection by any single experience. Paul has made great progress in Christlikeness, but the goal is still before him, not behind him.

--Diametrically opposed to what your "foundation" is-sinless perfection already obtained-no need for further striving and sanctification.

But I press on (diōkō de). He is not discouraged, but encouraged. He keeps up the chase (real idea in diōkō, as in 1Co_14:1; Rom_9:30; 1Ti_6:11).


If so be that (ei kai). “I follow after.” The condition (third class, ei̇̇katalabō, second aorist active subjunctive of katalambanō) is really a sort of purpose clause or aim. There are plenty of examples in the Koiné[28928]š of the use of ei and the subjunctive as here (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1017), “if I also may lay hold of that for which (Ephesians' hōi, purpose expressed by epi) I was laid hold of (katelēmphthēn, first aorist passive of the same verb katalambanō) by Christ Jesus.” His conversion was the beginning, not the end of the chase.

--but in your case-"I have arrived"-no need for Conditional Clauses.
Well done, stay in your lane.
:)

Shalom, and have a blessed journey.

Brother, I don't know how you can think that I think that I have arrived. Something must have been misunderstood. I only said we should AIM for perfection. I believe we certainly should aim not to sin, rather than aiming to sin sometimes. We shouldn't set a bar that is any lower than the one Jesus set....the plumbline of His word, and His perfect example.

Jesus Christ Himself is the cornerstone, perfectly square.....but His teachings and the teachings of the apostles and prophets are also part of the foundation and line up perfectly with that square, so that the rest of the building will not be built askew. Hebrews 6 says that repentance from dead works, aka, sin, is foundational ( as are baptisms), and that we are to leave those elementary things, as it were, and go on to perfection. Doesn't mean we are sinlessly perfect, but that we have established the plumbline of sinless perfection in our hearts that we may always be aiming for that. If we sometimes err along the way, we have an Advocate, and we need to repent in order have a clean slate again. There is more I'd like to try and communicate but I don't always have the right words for these things.

 

[Johann]

Brother, I don't know how you can think that I think that I have arrived. Something must have been misunderstood. I only said we should AIM for perfection. I believe we certainly should aim not to sin, rather than aiming to sin sometimes. We shouldn't set a bar that is any lower than the one Jesus set....the plumbline of His word, and His perfect example.

Jesus Christ Himself is the cornerstone, perfectly square.....but His teachings and the teachings of the apostles and prophets are also part of the foundation and line up perfectly with that square, so that the rest of the building will not be built askew. Hebrews 6 says that repentance from dead works, aka, sin, is foundational ( as are baptisms), and that we are to leave those elementary things, as it were, and go on to perfection. Doesn't mean we are sinlessly perfect, but that we have established the plumbline of sinless perfection in our hearts that we may always be aiming for that. If we sometimes err along the way, we have an Advocate, and we need to repent in order have a clean slate again. There is more I'd like to try and communicate but I don't always have the right words for these things.

Then I extend my heartfelt apologies-for this misunderstanding, I really thought you advocate sinless perfection.
All good?
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

I will never get why you and "amigo" equate the word of God to condemnation. God is love.

Ephesians 2:3-5, "All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else, but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved.

Colossians 2:2, "I want their hearts to be encouraged and united in love, so that they may have all the riches of assured understanding and have the knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ"

2 Thessalonians 1:3, "We must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing."

1 John 3:10, "The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love a brother or sister."

1 John 4:7-8, "Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

1 John 4:12, "No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us, and his love is perfected in us."

1 John 4:16, "So we have known and believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them."

1 John 4:21, "The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also."

I do not see the judgement and condemnation that you and "amigo" spout in any of your posts! You freely accuse your brothers and sisters in Christ, which is the exact opposite of the above verses.

? Do you mean like you are here accusing me of accusing? You'll have to point out specifically where you see me accusing someone, brother. I just try to bring and share what the word of God says as best I can.

 

[Lizbeth]

I think that Jesus can manage His own flock without your help! Do you think that Jesus is not sovereign or do you think that He is powerless?

You didn't ask me but I'll tell you what I think. I think all the parts of the body are needed, as the word says. Remember JESUS going into the temple and turning their tables upside down and driving out all the money changers with a whip? Yeah. He sure did accuse them right and proper, didnt' He. Well, that needs to happen again.