A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

[Patrick1966]

Savior of all who believe.

That's not what it says nor what it means.

How is Jesus the "saviour of ALL people" if he doesn't actually save all people?

 

[Patrick1966]

This statement is an admission that Yahweh the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the Lord Jesus Christ is unknown to you. It's a good place to start, ignorance....one can only learn from there!

Your arrogance, pride, and vanity disallow you to acknowledge that your understanding is mistaken. I could again share scripture with you, but you are unmoved by God's word. So be it. Not my problem.

 

[Patrick1966]

Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit— just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in ALL.

 

[Patrick1966]

Why is God in people that he tortures forever?

 

[face2face]

Your arrogance, pride, and vanity disallow you to acknowledge that your understanding is mistaken. I could again share scripture with you, but you are unmoved by God's word. So be it. Not my problem.

No, its clear you take pagan imagery and overlay it on the Word....and that is your problem.

 

[face2face]

Why is God in people that he tortures forever?

An oxymoron...there is nothing in man of His to torture

 

[Patrick1966]

An oxymoron...there is nothing in man of His to torture

This reminds me of watching you and those that share your beliefs doing gymnastics to avoid the obvious truth.

 

[Patrick1966]

No, its clear you take pagan imagery and overlay it on the Word....and that is your problem.

No, you reject God's word and believe the lies of dark lord of this world. But that's ok, nobody is getting damned for not understanding how God works.

 

[face2face]

Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit— just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in ALL.

...in ALL who are those who have obtained that one baptism...correct

 

[face2face]

This reminds me of watching you and those that share your beliefs doing gymnastics to avoid the obvious truth

Ah you must believe you already have immortality lol.
Good luck with that belief....espeically while those true believers are still seeking it!

 

[Patrick1966]

...in ALL who are those who have obtained that one baptism...correct

Now you're changing the verse.

 

[face2face]

That's not what it says nor what it means.

How is Jesus the "saviour of ALL people" if he doesn't actually save all people?

Where does it say he is saviour of all people...here we go

 

[Patrick1966]

Ah you must believe you already have immortality lol.
Good luck with that belief....espeically while those true believers are still seeking it!

It sounds like you're hoping I'll be sent to eternal torture. Maybe God will let YOU be my torturer. Does that get you excited?

 

[face2face]

Now you're changing the verse.

No, you mentioned the conditions in your post...let me go back and get it!

"just as you were called to the one hope"

So true! those who were called...

Then Matthew 22:14 applies.

 

[Patrick1966]

Where does it say he is saviour of all people...here we go

1 Timothy 4:10 ESV
“For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. . . ”

Cue the gymnastics gif as he explains that ALL doesn't mean ALL.

 

[face2face]

It sounds like you're hoping I'll be sent to eternal torture. Maybe God will let YOU be my torturer. Does that get you excited?

Ignorance is a very unattractive quality in a person sorry.

 

[Patrick1966]

No, you mentioned the conditions in your post...let me go back and get it!

"just as you were called to the one hope"

So true! those who were called...

Then Matthew 22:14 applies.

You obviously don't believe this verse either.

1 Corinthians 15:28
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Patrick1966]

Ignorance is a very unattractive quality in a person sorry.

More insults and all for sharing the truth with you.

 

[face2face]

1 Timothy 4:10 ESV
“For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. . . ”

Cue the gymnastics gif as he explains that ALL doesn't mean ALL. View attachment 32088

No All means All - Jesus offers salvation to all men - no one should ever debate or question that truth - its fundamental to Christ being lifted up to draw ALL men to salvation; sadly not ALL men will allow themselves to be drawn to him. So you are right and you are wrong depending on whose perspective you are coming from.

But yes Paul, especially those who presently believe, toil and strive to obtain him will be saved while those out there yet to be called or may never be are yet to saved.

F2F

 

[face2face]

You obviously don't believe this verse either.

1 Corinthians 15:28
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

So you dont believe many are called and few are chosen then?
This has you in a bind!
The above verse is simply saying God will put all things in subjection to His Son when he comes and yes eventually God will be All and in All toward those who have been chosen.