How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[ChristisGod]

How do they believe when they have not seen? Unless it be a work of God and not of men?

Read Hebrews definition of faith and believe Gods word.

Hebrews 11:1-Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Romans 8:24- For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see?

2 Corinthians 5:7-For we walk by faith, not by sight.

John 20:29- Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


hope this helps !!!

 

[Episkopos]

2 levels of faith. who comes up with this stuff?

Maybe when you were younger and still teachable somebody should have explained to you that within the ONE bible....there were TWO testaments. Maybe someone should have taken your then young flexible mind and explained to you that within the GodHead was BOTH Father and Son.

You miss the dualities the way a one year old is unable to see 2 of something...maybe even younger than that. So you will remain stunted in your growth until you can put away simplistic notions that endlessly confuse the ways (plural) of God.

You either TRUST God or you do not..

On a human level...

there are no levels.. If you trust him, even in the faith of a mustard seed, he is faithful.

The mustard seed is about the faith OF Christ. No amount of human faith can change the landscape. That's what bulldozers are for. Also no amount of human faith can walk on water...walk in Zion..etc...

Like the man said, I believe lord. help me with my unbelief

Again this is about human faith. The faith of Christ doesn't require any help.

Why can't you see your dogmatic ideology obscures the truth? But that's what unbelief does...and a lack of understanding.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Not sure where you are going here.

You asked about the person who had little or no faith after they were supposedly saved. what would happen.

gold silver precious stone wood hay straw is the answer.

He would suffer loss of reward as it would be burned in the fire. but if he was saved, he himself will still be saved even as through fire.

that's what that passage is about..

Legion tormented by many demons is another example, his hiding in the cave cutting himself from torment… why do He come out of the cave unless it was revealed unto Legion who Christ is? Someone moved Legion out from the cave and it wasn’t what men had told Legion about God…if it had been what men had told Legion he would have hid in the cave forever out of fear Christ held no mercy for one such as him.

 

[Enoch111]

So, in a sense, you just admitted regeneration precedes faith-"New birth to take place Before a sinner believes?"-We can be born from above BEFORE we believe?

Please read what I said carefully. I said no such thing.

 

[ChristisGod]

Legion tormented by many demons is another example, his hiding in the cave cutting himself from torment… why do He come out of the cave unless it was revealed unto Legion who Christ is? Someone moved Legion out from the cave and it wasn’t what men had told Legion about God…if it had been what men had told Legion he would have hid in the cave forever out of fear Christ held no mercy for one such as him.

legion was not the person, they were the demons who recognized their Creator- Christ. They obeyed Christ and came out of the man from gadarenes. The man did not come to Jesus as he was possessed. Jesus came to him and delivered him from the demons. It was the demons who Jesus was talking to in the story read it below.

Mark 5
They went to the other side of the sea to the region of the Gadarenes. 2 When He had come out of the boat, immediately a man with an unclean spirit came out of the tombs and met Him. 3 He lived among the tombs. And no one could constrain him, not even with chains, 4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. But he had pulled the chains apart and broken the shackles to pieces. And no one could subdue him. 5 Always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.


6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran up and kneeled before Him, 7 and cried out with a loud voice, “What have You to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure You by God, do not torment me.” 8 For Jesus said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”


9 Then He asked him, “What is your name?”

He answered, “My name is Legion. For we are many.” 10 And he begged Him repeatedly not to send them away out of the country.


11 Now there was a great herd of swine feeding near the mountains. 12 All the demons pleaded with Him, asking, “Send us to the swine, so that we may enter them.” 13 At once, Jesus gave them leave. Then the unclean spirits came out and entered the swine. And the herd, numbering about two thousand, ran wildly down a steep hill into the sea and were drowned in the sea.

 

[Lizbeth]

There will be an endless conflict of human faith and the faith OF Christ until one realizes that faith indeed exists on more than one level. In Him we go from faith to faith.

Without understanding the 2 levels of faith we won't understand the 2 levels of righteousness...and the purpose of there being 2 testaments.

In understanding we are to be adult. A house can be built with more than one floor. Here in Quebec we call that (a 2 storey house) a "cottage"....as opposed to a single storey house we call a "bungalow". Have you ever noticed that with a bungalow...its always the same storey???!! ;)

Ha-ha, funny. :) But does this mean you aren't denying the first level of faith then, and are no longer trying to build a second storey without the first storey? The first level of faith, as you are calling it, IS OF GOD too, not of our own. I believe we follow the same pattern as the Israelites under the Law, being tutored as children/servants on the way to growing and maturing, and that is what I seem to observe, except that we are no longer under the curse of the Law. Big difference. It's the same pattern, but not entirely identical in the details....new covenant is a new paradigm.

 

[ChristisGod]

Please read what I said carefully. I said no such thing.

Exactly

 

[Enoch111]

It seems to me that being born again is closely associated with those who received Jesus.

And receiving Jesus means believing on Him and receiving Him as Lord and Savior. So first comes the believing, and then comes the New Birth. There can be no regeneration without the gift of the Holy Spirit, and there can be no such gift without FIRST there being repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hebrews 11:1-Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

See I could suggest ..Faith is confidence in what eternally grateful hopes for but has not seen …my coming to the Lord… the assurance of what he doesn’t see as being formed in me which is Christ. See, that is confidence, hope …in “if our gospel be hidden it is hidden from those perishing” and Paul’s constant …hope, confidence not in them but Christ as the one who is faithful … to give us what we ask for. listen to that promise that even though it is not seen —hidden—and we don’t see it “his being formed in another”
there is confidence in Him and hope of “his being formed” because God loves and desires “Fruit” which glorifies the Father and the Son. What is confidence, hope which never allows that unseen and hidden to be seen “you are my joy with me in the presence of Christ.”

Romans 8:24- For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see?

Who will deliver us from our enemies?
Even God can make your enemies to be at peace with you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Mark 5
They went to the other side of the sea to the region of the Gadarenes. 2 When He had come out of the boat, immediately a man with an unclean spirit came out of the tombs and met Him. 3 He lived among the tombs. And no one could constrain him, not even with chains, 4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. But he had pulled the chains apart and broken the shackles to pieces. And no one could subdue him. 5 Always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.

Then He didn’t heal all the others who had demons? Any possessed? Never casting torment out —like perfect love does—those torments of a body delivered from its torment? Why did he bother with legion to come out of the cave? Why put those demons in the swine to their own running headlong down the hill to drown themselves? Sounds similar to drowning yourself in religions confusion. It runs itself headlong down the hill and into the lake to be drowned. Poor swines.

Isaiah 65:4-5 Which remain among the graves, (not legion he came running out of it, shown as one clothed and sitting in his right mind) and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; [5] Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

 

[ChristisGod]

Then He didn’t heal all the others who had demons? Any possessed? Never casting torment out —like perfect love does—those torments of a body delivered from its torment? Why did he bother with legion to come out of the cave? Why put those demons in the swine to their own running headlong down the hill to drown themselves? Sounds similar to drowning in religions confusion. It runs itself headlong down the hill and into the lake to be drowned. Poor swines.

he didn't heal everyone just the same as He didn't save everyone.

btw- asking questions all of the time is not defending the faith its skepticism.

if that were the case I could ask you 100's of questions all the time and the one who asks the most questions would be right.

And why ask a question the bible doesn't specifically answer ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How do they believe when they have not seen? Unless it be a work of God and not of men?

Amen!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wait ..what …what Fire?

1 Corinthians 3:13
each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

 

[ChristisGod]

1 Corinthians 3:13
each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

yes indeed.

I like how Jude puts it in Jude 1:23. Its very graphic.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

he didn't heal everyone just the same as He didn't save everyone.

btw- asking questions all of the time is not defending the faith its skepticism.

if that were the case I could ask you 100's of questions all the time and the one who asks the most questions would be right.

hope this helps !!!

Ok.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe when you were younger and still teachable somebody should have explained to you that within the ONE bible....there were TWO testaments. Maybe someone should have taken your then young flexible mind and explained to you that within the GodHead was BOTH Father and Son.

You miss the dualities the way a one year old is unable to see 2 of something...maybe even younger than that. So you will remain stunted in your growth until you can put away simplistic notions that endlessly confuse the ways (plural) of God.

On a human level...

or maybe if you got out of thinking you are right, and stop trying to determine why other people think they way you do. you would see the truth

Faith is an assurance of something or in someone. It comes by hearing, and hearing by the word. it is based on the hope of things not seen.

yes there were two testaments, But salvation has been by grace through faith since adam.. There has NEVR been more than one way to heaven.

The mustard seed is about the faith OF Christ. No amount of human faith can change the landscape. That's what bulldozers are for. Also no amount of human faith can walk on water...walk in Zion..etc...

lol. Jesus said if THEY had faith of a mustard seed, THEY could move a mountain.. Look at the people in the OT who had faith. look what they did..

Again this is about human faith. The faith of Christ doesn't require any help.

Why can't you see your dogmatic ideology obscures the truth? But that's what unbelief does...and a lack of understanding.

I see truth, Your the one who has idiology. because you reject the truth of the gospel.. Your to focused on self to even look to Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

See I could suggest ..Faith is confidence in what eternally grateful hopes for but has not seen …my coming to the Lord… the assurance of what he doesn’t see as being formed in me which is Christ. See, that is confidence, hope …in “if our gospel be hidden it is hidden from those perishing” and Paul’s constant …hope, confidence not in them but Christ as the one who is faithful … to give us what we ask for. listen to that promise that even though it is not seen —hidden—and we don’t see it “his being formed in another”
there is confidence in Him and hope of “his being formed” because God loves and desires “Fruit” which glorifies the Father and the Son. What is confidence, hope which never allows that unseen and hidden to be seen “you are my joy with me in the presence of Christ.”

Who will deliver us from our enemies?
Even God can make your enemies to be at peace with you.

true, But God does not promise to deliver us from our enemies in this lifetime

If he does. great, If he does not Great..

 

[ChristisGod]

And I will throw this one out free of charge.

Both Jesus and the Pharisees asked questions.

One was to teach truth and the other to set a trap.

Most of the times on forums its not to teach and build up others its to prove the other person wrong. So one must examine their motives for asking a question. Are we being like Jesus or the Pharisees ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

true, But God does not promise to deliver us from our enemies in this lifetime

If he does. great, If he does not Great..

Maybe not but whether it is seen or not seen … not as those who have no hope. confidence, hope and faith in that which is not yet seen. Wait for His appearing. Loving His appearance.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe not but whether it is seen or not seen … confidence, hope and faith in that which is not yet seen. Wait for His appearing. Loving His appearance.

true,

But we also need to make sure we will be raised by him when he appears.. I believe many will think they are saved, but will not be, and will be scrambling when they meet him to show why they think they deserve to be in heaven in desperation because they missed the ressurection..