How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Ritajanice]

2 Corinthians 41 Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," [1] made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.8 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair;9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body.12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.13 It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." [2] With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.15 All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You need to be so Poor you call out to God as the tax collector. And receive his grace gift if eternal Life based not on what you do or will do. But based on what he did on the cross
Jesus came to save you from Gods wrath from eternal Death. Then he will help you walk as Jesus did

He does not help you walk like Jesus so you can be saved he saves you so you can walk like jeaus

What amazes me is the years people come to my house to try to get me into the church, but once I accepted to reaching out for what was offered…the battle has been not people showing up to get me in the church but a fight to get me out of it. I mean full blown we changed our minds instead trying everything to prove I’m not in, but out. I wish you all (i mean the church) would make up your mind.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What amazes me is the years people come to my house to try to get me into the church, but once I accepted to reaching out for what was offered…the battle has been not people showing up to get me in the church but a fight to get me out of it. I mean full blown we changed our minds instead trying everything to prove I’m not in, but out. I wish you all (i mean the church) would make up your mind.

There is only one church. Not everyone who claims to be the church has the truth

The Pharisees thought they were ok. Jesus told them they were not ok. And they killed him for it

We are all on death row. Unless we are saved we will remain on death row. Many people proclaim we are free while we still walk within the prison complex thinking we are free. There will come a day when we are called to the judge and our sentence will be fulfilled.

Unless we receive the gift of eternal life based on Christ dying for us. In substitution. The lamb of God

If you or I are still on death row. We can walk as good as we can and humble ourselves all day we are still on death row.

That’s what becoming poor in spirit
Means. To come To Our end. Like the tax collector

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Sister it is certainly free in the beginning...the bible explicitly SAYS so....a FREE gift. A newborn didn't have to pay any price to be born. But then we begin to count the cost of following Him. We start to grow as children grow and eventually grow up....we begin learning lessons and experiencing the Father's discipline etc, realizing and facing reality that "life" in this world isn't a bed of roses like it was when we were just infants...realizing that there is a cost involved in being His when He begins the testing and proving of our faith. If we didn't receive faith in the beginning there would be nothing to test and prove would there.

When I think of free.
I think of: whom the Lord makes free is free indeed.

And Paul asking them did I lord it over any of you…did I overcharge you with much sorrow…did I make charge of the gospel unto you what had freely been given to me…did I make gain or profit off of you as those you admire being you into bondage under them? To me he isn’t talking only about money but overcharging people admission. As lording it over them. Where the religious leaders wanted lordship over them, bringing them into enslavement, bondage, captivity to them. And you will never please the outer man saying always it is never enough.

Which is an example also of Jesus Christ saying not to be Lords over God’s House but helpers of the Faith. When we say no cost …it will cost our own image to obtain His. It is in His likeness that makes free, not our own image being built up. So, what is truly loss but gained twice in return?

 

[Jim B]

But logically? If Jesus wanted everyone to be in his kingdom, he would not place conditions on it would he? I mean, I think we are on the same page because, as you say, many people reject him.

Or were you speaking of what Jesus desires? If that is what you meant then I agree. I think Jesus would desire that all people everywhere would accept him.

For God so loved the world...

I'm certain that God wishes that all people would turn to Him, accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf, join His family, and have eternal life.

 

[Jim B]

There is only one church. Not everyone who claims to be the church has the truth

The Pharisees thought they were ok. Jesus told them they were not ok. And they killed him for it

We are all on death row. Unless we are saved we will remain on death row. Many people proclaim we are free while we still walk within the prison complex thinking we are free. There will come a day when we are called to the judge and our sentence will be fulfilled.

Unless we receive the gift of eternal life based on Christ dying for us. In substitution. The lamb of God

If you or I are still on death row. We can walk as good as we can and humble ourselves all day we are still on death row.

That’s what becoming poor in spirit
Means. To come To Our end. Like the tax collector

I agree with your thoughts, basically. However, those of us who have accepted Christ as our Savior are not on death row. Our lives have been redeemed!

 

[ChristisGod]

For God so loved the world...

I'm certain that God wishes that all people would turn to Him, accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf, join His family, and have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people.

 

[Lizbeth]

When I think of free.
I think of: whom the Lord makes free is free indeed.

And Paul asking them did I lord it over any of you…did I overcharge you with much sorrow…did I make charge of the gospel unto you what had freely been given to me…did I make gain or profit off of you as those you admire being you into bondage under them? To me he isn’t talking only about money but overcharging people admission. As lording it over them. Where the religious leaders wanted lordship over them, bringing them into enslavement, bondage, captivity to them. And you will never please the outer man saying always it is never enough.

Which is an example also of Jesus Christ saying not to be Lords over God’s House but helpers of the Faith. When we say no cost …it will cost our own image to obtain His. It is in His likeness that makes free, not our own image being built up. So, what is truly loss but gained twice in return?

I guess you missed the point and have started down another trail of thought.

 

[Johann]

But isn't certainty assured in God's faithfulness? John says we "have" eternal life, which is a certainty even while it remains a hope, which rests on God's faithfulness.

In other words, the sentence "I have eternal life" is just as certain and just as true whether it has been actualized or whether it stands as a hope for the future, because God never fails to keep his promise.

Right?

Why make it difficult?
We HAVE NOW--Present, Perfect==eternal life-are you familiar with the morphologies in the Greek text?
What is a Perfect in Koine Greek?
And it is ALREADY actualized now for the believer-a present reality.

My apologies for coming back late-load shedding in SA.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I guess you missed the point and have started down another trail.

At what point can you be considered adopted in to Faith of Christ?

 

[Lizbeth]

At what point can you be considered adopted in to Faith of Christ?

We received the spirit of adoption when we first came to faith in Him (with a faith not of our own that no one may boast - that faith was a free gift). His Spirit that we received at that point IS that spirit (of adoption).

 

[Johann]

So you are placing the new birth prior to belief in the gospel ?

I 'think" he holds to Reformed Theology.

 

[Johann]

We received the spirit of adoption when we first came to faith in Him (with a faith not of our own that no one may boast - that faith was a free gift). His Spirit that we received at that point IS that spirit (of adoption).

Well said-with a faith not of our own-so that NO one may boast.

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8

New International Version

​

Life Through the Spirit​

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory

 

[Johann]

Romans 8​

​

New International Version​

​

​

Life Through the Spirit​

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory

Welcome to the Forum @Ritajanice -what do you make of this chapter?

 

[Ritajanice]

Hello Johann, thank you for the welcome, I am finding this chapter very interesting and LOVE reading your replies, it’s wonderful to be among Brothers and Sisters in the Lord,....Sorry, I don’t know how to quote you.

 

[Johann]

Hello Johann, thank you for the welcome, I am finding this chapter very interesting and LOVE reading your replies, it’s wonderful to be among Brothers and Sisters in the Lord,....Sorry, I don’t know how to quote you.

Highlight a portion of my post-or the whole-press enter on your computer, tablet, and "reply" -should work just fine.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Hello Johann,

Highlight-press enter-then reply, as here--

 

[Johann]

thank you for the welcome,

See how it works?

I am finding this chapter very interesting

Me too--I am more of a hermeneutical kind of person, systematic theology-no scholar-and simply love to look up words and their meanings in the Koine Greek and Hebrew.
Stay strong in Christ Jesus
Shalom to you and family.
J.

 

[Johann]

Sorry, I don’t know how to quote you.

Here is what I'm doing--

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
Rom 6:7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.--is freed = has been justified, cleared from the claims of sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
Rom 6:9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
Rom 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
Rom 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
Rom 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Being . . . free = Having, then, been set free. Greek. eleutheroo. Only here, Rom_6:22; Rom_8:2, Rom_8:21. Joh_8:32, Joh_8:36. Gal_1:5, Gal_1:1.

became the servants = were made bond-servants or enslaved.

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Rom 6:21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
ESV

I find this helpful and we can unpack this chapter even further, but we have godly brothers and sisters who will be more than willing to assist you.

Shalom-hope this was helpful.
Johann.