Nothing much left to say

[QuantumBit]

Hello @QuantumBit Are you an alien from another planet? Because you have to tell us if you are.

Hi I.O.U:

I am not an alien from another planet... lol.

 

[QuantumBit]

Ah there we go. The Church unfortunately has a terrible habit of reinventing text, rewording text or coming up with fabulous interpretations to try and gloss over or patch up the areas that don't follow the established dogma and it's concept of god.

Amen to that.

GNB - "except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad.[a] You must not eat the fruit of that tree; if you do, you will die the same day."

I believe that Adam and his wife died on that very day. It was a literal death and it was within twenty-four hours.

It's worth also pointing out another assumption being made which is that you're suggesting that Adam and Eve were immortal before they ate from the tree, for otherwise how could they "begin to die" after eating from the tree? If they were mortal then they were always on the process of dying like any human.

Adam and Eve? Remember, Eve did not show up until after the fall. Other than that, good point.

If you could furnish us with scripture that confirms this immortality assumption that would be useful, otherwise it's just one more made up fantasy of this already questionable dogma.

The answer is in the Book of Revelation...

Revelation 22:2
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

The Tree of Life is for healing, which is a one-time thing. It is the last stage of the Born-Again process. All it takes is to eat it once and immortality is granted permanently.

Remember, death is eliminated in the New Heavens and New Earth. Therefore, there is no need to keep eating from a tree to stay alive.

There are some clues though . .

Genesis 3:22

“See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, to prevent his putting out his hand and taking also from the tree of life, eating, and living forever — ” 23 therefore Adonai, God, sent him out of the garden of ‘Eden to cultivate the ground from which he was taken."

So, it's pretty black and white clear there, Adam and Eve were NOT immortal and they would have had to eat from the "tree of life" in order to live forever.

You forgot the most important thing. Adam and his wife *became mortal* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. They lost their immortality at that point.

So, the point of the verse you posted is to prevent them from becoming immortal again after disobeying God.

First the "Tree Of Life" as I have explained elsewhere is an allegorical term for the Philosopher's Stone or Elixir Of Life. It has 100s of names and is referred to in just about every religion and every major form of mythology from Greek to Norse.

The Philosopher's Stone is Masculine. The Tree of Life is Feminine.

You are missing the Feminine Stone so to speak. The 'Flask'.

A "White Stone" and a "Red Stone" which confer different properties and benefits, the white healing, the red immortality. And again please dispense with childish remarks about rocks for the Stone is not a rock, it is a substance that can be powder or liquid or waxy.

If we view the White Philosopher's Stone through the lens of the Bible, we find that this is the closest match...

Revelation 2:17
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

The White Stone is the Seed of Abraham, as in sperm. It is a euphemism for the Heavenly Seed of the Glorified Body. It combines with the fruit of the Tree of Life to complete the fertilization process. The Fruit is the 'flask' to place the Stone in.

The Red Stone is the Seed of the Serpent. It is a euphemism for the Earthly Seed of all Males on the planet. It combines with the Forbidden Fruit to produce the body of corruption.

John 6:52-53
52 At this, the Judeans disputed with one another, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Then Yeshua said to them, “Yes, indeed! I tell you that unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life — that is, I will raise him up on the Last Day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Here again the words of Genesis are reeiterated. You have to EAT something and DRINK something to gain real life, immortality.
You have EAT The "Tree Of Life". If you don't then there is no life in you. Clearly Jesus doesn't condone canibalism. He's not suggesting we eat his actual flesh and drink his actual blood. He's referring to the White and Red Stones. White = flesh, Red = blood.

Close, but it is not the White and Red Stones together. See my previous posts.

The final thing we should note from the non-literal, allegorical tale of Adam and Eve is that it paints a picture of a god that wants slaves. He created man as a slave to tend the garden, even though he had no such need of any slave if he is the all-powerful entity the Church paints him as.

God created Man to 'till the ground'. This is symbolic of taking the Dust of the Earth and creating Life. God was looking for Genetic Engineers to help him create Life. This is a HUGE responsibility, reserved only for the most trustworthy. A test was initiated, and Man failed.

As someone that is into Alchemy, I am surprised you do not see this aspect to the story.

God punished them for seeking to better themselves.

No. The Tree of Life would have accomplished that. Adam and his wife wanted to play God without first educating themselves by partaking of the other Trees in the Garden. The 'food' was information.

The 'knowledge' of the Forbidden Fruit was the knowledge of Death and Hell and what happens to the Saved vs. the Unsaved (Good and Evil). They were not ready for that.

God was not some 'dictator', but a Father figure who needed his children to learn the basics first before proceeding to the 'final exam' of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

 

[QuantumBit]

The serpent told the TRUTH.

No. The Serpent lied.

The Serpent said that Ishshah would *not* 'surely die'. She did, and so did the First Adam.

The phrase 'surely die' is another way of saying 'Second Death', which is what the First Adam and Ishshah experienced on that very day.

 

[2bme]

Hi I.O.U:

I am not an alien from another planet... lol.

Here have a YouTube clip:

 

[marksman]

Stop believing.

So not believing in God will make us better Christians?

 

[marksman]

How can human beings achieve peace with each other while retaining their personal beliefs? If their personal beliefs vary from one person to another; how can peace be achievable (It's not happening now) With all the laws that are made to protect the rights of belief systems, there's still conflict. Unless everyone believes the same thing I can't see how people can ever create a peaceful society.

Stalin got everyone to believe the same thing. Obey me or you're dead. His belief system murdered millions.

 

[2bme]

Stalin got everyone to believe the same thing. Obey me or you're dead. His belief system murdered millions.

That's right his belief system, and many others did the same thing's with their beliefs. This is what we have learnt to do when we believe something. Get everyone to follow whatever it is we believe no matter the cost.

 

[2bme]

So not believing in God will make us better Christians?

Better humans. Don't know about being better Christian's, unless being a better Christian to you is being the best human being you can be, then yes.

 

[BeyondET]

Everything I think of talking about sounds contrived and laboured(Well put some energy into it!) Let me be flat out honest with the people on this forum. Your rat-bags(Are they carry bags made from rats?) Your faith in Jesus makes you think your privileged and entitled to step on each other(Literally)

And someone who doesn't believe in Jesus is privileged and entitled to step on those who do.

That's hypocritical rather you have a faith or not.

 

[Lapidem]

You're asking questions Lapidem yet it appears you are not open to answers because you have already decided what the case is.

If you read my words carefully you'll see that I am making the other poster ask questions of himself.

Yes I already know that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegorical tale that is really iterating the secrets of the "Tree Of Life"/Philosopher's Stone. I'm asking the poster about Cain and Able to iterate that the story is patently allegorical. For otherwise where did all the people come from if not via endless bouts of incest? Are we condoning incest in Christianity now? I know that Christians like to invent things when there's something in the Bible that is a clear problem or an error. In respect of the question of unrestrained incest Christians invent the concept of there being lots of other people that god created other than Adam and Eve.

The story is allegorical not literal. The sooner people realise this the sooner they will see the true message.

 

[quietthinker]

If you read my words carefully you'll see that I am making the other poster ask questions of himself.

Yes I already know that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegorical tale that is really iterating the secrets of the "Tree Of Life"/Philosopher's Stone. I'm asking the poster about Cain and Able to iterate that the story is patently allegorical. For otherwise where did all the people come from if not via endless bouts of incest? Are we condoning incest in Christianity now? I know that Christians like to invent things when there's something in the Bible that is a clear problem or an error. In respect of the question of unrestrained incest Christians invent the concept of there being lots of other people that god created other than Adam and Eve.

The story is allegorical not literal. The sooner people realise this the sooner they will see the true message.

To answer your question re the wives of the brothers Cain and Able. The human was not genetically corrupted as it is today so taking their sisters as wives would not pose a problem with their offspring as it does today.

I do not see the story as allegorical. No doubt there are many more factors however, what is relevant for us to know has been recorded by Moses. He no doubt got his information from the oral tradition.

 

[Lapidem]

Totally wrong. Living is a sustaining process! Dying is not.

Living (in human form) is the situation whereby a human life form has enough of the required energy/fuel it needs to perform it's bodily functions which include renewing every cell in the body periodically.

Dying (in human form) is the situation whereby a human life form does not have enough of the required energy/fuel it needs to perform it's bodily functions which results in the renewing of body cells happening very infrequently such that the body gradually decays, ages and perishes.

John 6:53
"Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

Without the right fuel (which you MUST eat and drink) you have no life in you, hence you are dying.

Your billions of Christians are all dying because they do not have the fuel, they are not eating or drinking that which their body needs.
Jesus could not be clearer.

But that path is difficult.

It is the narrow path that very few find. It requires tremendous study and research to unravel the deliberate cryptic clues that have been left by Jesus and every other alchemist before and after him. It's known as Ariadne's Thread. None of them were permitted to reveal the whole secret, the entirety of the majestry by which a man may come to the Stone and thereby transform himself to become immortal.
Each left written works that explained part of the puzzle. Only those with "eyes to see" can begin to unravel that puzzle and that's only the beginning of a long process or reading and studying numerous different works to fit all the jigsaw pieces together. The Bible is but one piece of that jigsaw.

Meanwhile, billions of indoctrinated people have instead accepted the wide path of the silly dogma peddled by the churches, the more easily swallowed comfort blanket path. Immortality. The notion that all can gain it by just muttering a few words is laughable but so many fall for those lies. The path is long and difficult fraught with wrong turns and challenges and very few indeed reach its end. Those that do are transformed by the great prize they have created with their efforts. St Germain, Thomas Acquinas, Paracelsus, Bacon, Valentine, many many more and of course Jesus.

Seek and you will find. Empty your cup.

 

[Lapidem]

To answer your question re the wives of the brothers Cain and Able. The human was not genetically corrupted as it is today so taking their sisters as wives would not pose a problem with their offspring as it does today.

As I said, Christians make excuses. You're saying that full on incest, sex between brother and sister was just fine and dandy and nothing taboo or forbidden, back then. :-) Bit like your god murdering men, women, children, babies and unborn babies was somehow ok and acceptable back then. So the entirety of the human race is just the product of incest yes?

Sorry. It doesn't wash.

 

[2bme]

And someone who doesn't believe in Jesus is privileged and entitled to step on those who do.

That's hypocritical rather you have a faith or not.

I have been pondering over your reply for a while now, thinking of so many ways I could answer. But my mind is really shouting one thing at me. I hope I'll die tonight after I fall asleep, I so hope I do.

 

[Lapidem]

Amen to that.



I believe that Adam and his wife died on that very day. It was a literal death and it was within twenty-four hours.



Adam and Eve? Remember, Eve did not show up until after the fall. Other than that, good point.



The answer is in the Book of Revelation...

Revelation 22:2
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

The Tree of Life is for healing, which is a one-time thing. It is the last stage of the Born-Again process. All it takes is to eat it once and immortality is granted permanently.

Remember, death is eliminated in the New Heavens and New Earth. Therefore, there is no need to keep eating from a tree to stay alive.



You forgot the most important thing. Adam and his wife *became mortal* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. They lost their immortality at that point.

So, the point of the verse you posted is to prevent them from becoming immortal again after disobeying God.



The Philosopher's Stone is Masculine. The Tree of Life is Feminine.

You are missing the Feminine Stone so to speak. The 'Flask'.



If we view the White Philosopher's Stone through the lens of the Bible, we find that this is the closest match...

Revelation 2:17
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

The White Stone is the Seed of Abraham, as in sperm. It is a euphemism for the Heavenly Seed of the Glorified Body. It combines with the fruit of the Tree of Life to complete the fertilization process. The Fruit is the 'flask' to place the Stone in.

The Red Stone is the Seed of the Serpent. It is a euphemism for the Earthly Seed of all Males on the planet. It combines with the Forbidden Fruit to produce the body of corruption.



Close, but it is not the White and Red Stones together. See my previous posts.



God created Man to 'till the ground'. This is symbolic of taking the Dust of the Earth and creating Life. God was looking for Genetic Engineers to help him create Life. This is a HUGE responsibility, reserved only for the most trustworthy. A test was initiated, and Man failed.

As someone that is into Alchemy, I am surprised you do not see this aspect to the story.



No. The Tree of Life would have accomplished that. Adam and his wife wanted to play God without first educating themselves by partaking of the other Trees in the Garden. The 'food' was information.

The 'knowledge' of the Forbidden Fruit was the knowledge of Death and Hell and what happens to the Saved vs. the Unsaved (Good and Evil). They were not ready for that.

God was not some 'dictator', but a Father figure who needed his children to learn the basics first before proceeding to the 'final exam' of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Hi Quantum

Difficult to know where to start with your post. Everything you say contradicts the Bible. Therefore you must be using some special version of the Bible or some other source. Could you tell me what that is first so I can determine how best to reply. Thanks

 

[Wrangler]

To be kind. You are gifted with the eyes to see our short comings. Show us by example how better to reflect God’s glory.

What’s not to understand?

I would have to contradict my argument if I did that.

So, your argument, your moral imperative is to NOT be kind?! God bless! What observation would have to be made before you question the validity of your argument?

 

[Wrangler]

Living (in human form) is ...

Dying (in human form) is ...

Your idol again; just assert definitions to justify your ideology. Guess what? Antonyms are not synonyms. Living is not a form of dying.

Jesus and every other alchemist before and after him.

Your Strawman again. Numerous times I've asked what evidence proves that Jesus was an alchemist whose possession of a magic rock caused his resurrection. Crickets ... Crickets ... Crickets

When it comes to Christians, no amount of evidence is convincing. When it comes to your own made up fantasy, no evidence is needed. Double standard much.

 

[Wrangler]

YOU began dying the moment you came out of the womb and you have been on the process of dying ever since.

Typical nihilism of Atheism. Living is not even a possibility in your world view. What a horrible ideology. No wonder so few rational people embrace Atheism!

 

[Lapidem]

Your idol again; just assert definitions to justify your ideology. Guess what? Antonyms are not synonyms. Living is not a form of dying.

You couldn't be more ignorant and indeed wrong.

There is no beginning without an end, and there can be no end without a beginning. Simple truth.

Beginning and End seem like opposites but they are one and the same.

Your Strawman again. Numerous times I've asked what evidence proves that Jesus was an alchemist whose possession of a magic rock caused his resurrection. Crickets ... Crickets ... Crickets

Your childish derision exposes your position. There is no "magic" involved in anything I have spoken of. That's just an immature derision of your own making, an extension of your tantrums which are the result your frustration of being in the dark on these matters whilst others have the knowledge. Your pride and piousness as I have pointed out before blind your eyes. Your ego rules you. You won't learn something new because you can't face being in the position of the learner. Fair enough. Your choice.

And once again, the Tree Of Life, Philosopher's Stone is not a rock. You've now been told this at least 3 times, therefore your continual attempts to use the childish meme of "magic rock" are simply a deliberate and malicious attempt to provoke and taunt. As I warned you upthread, I have cast many pearls your way but once again you sneer and spit at them. So be it.

No more pearls will be thrown your way.

 

[Lapidem]

Typical nihilism of Atheism. Living is not even a possibility in your world view. What a horrible ideology. No wonder so few rational people embrace Atheism!

Poor show again. I am not an atheist. I simply do not conform to your childish and false view of god. Deal with it.