How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?
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Revelation 22:11 KJV
11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Matthew 13:19-23 KJV
19) When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20) But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21) Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22) He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23) But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
I don't mind looking at this. The assertion is, Four Souls, Four Conditions, Four destinies:
Unjust
Filthy
Righteous
Holy
And these are the same as the four soils,
Rocky
Shallow
Thorny
Good
Rocky / Unjust - the devil eats the word before it gets in - cast into the lake of fire
Shallow / filthy - happy to have the word, but unwilling to suffer - cast into outer darkness
Thorny / Righteous - Cares of the world make the word unfruitful - live among the "saved of the nations"
Good / Holy - Receives the word and bears fruit - lives in the holy city
Revelation 22:11 KJV
11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Let him be unjust, let him be filthy, these are both Active Voice verbs, what the person does. Let him be righteous, and let him be holy, are both Passive Voice verbs, what is done to the person.
Revelation 22:11 speaks in two ways about 4 things, keep doing what you are doing (active), that is, being unjust, and being filthy, keep receiving what you are receiving (passive), being righteous, and being holy.
Faith without works is dead, therefore, the only soil that showed living faith is the fourth soil, the good soil, that was fruitful. In the parable, 1 fruitful soil is contrasted to 3 unfruitful soils. I'm not seeing "righteousness" in the thorny soil, only that the cares of this world prevent the word from bearing fruit.
In Revelation 22, the unjust and filthy are not receiving righteousness or holiness, but are doing what they themselves do. It reminds me of those who will say to Him, Lord! Lord! Did we not do all these great works in your Name? Jesus will declare their works to be iniquity, Depart, you workers of iniquity! The did it for themselves, not for Him. It's what they did.
I'm going to stop here to meditate a bit.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
While pondering for a bit , always remember BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS .
the ol man gonna sound this out till me final and last breath .
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Amen
J.
You seriously not going to tell me you are going to meditate on 4 possible eternal destinations?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and many false ones have crept in and teach another gospel WHICH DOES DENY THE LORD
and many do follow their pernscious ways . But not the lambs . For lambs FOLLOW CHRIST WHO SAVED THEM .
Now lift those hands up my friend , its LORD praising time .
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Hey John, good too see you on here!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
I like John
Thanks, since my surgery in November, I haven't felt physically like doing much but I am much improved now. The cold weather slowed down my recovery but Spring is here and so am I. I cannot tolerate the cold, but I am looking forward to those 90+ degree days of summer. My wife will be in with the AC, but I will as much as possible be out in that warm sun. A few years back I hated Oklahoma summer, but my body has changed becoming sensitive to the cold. Give God the glory!
Jud_1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Are crept in (pareiseduēsan). Second aorist passive indicative of pareisduō (̇nō), late (Hippocrates, Plutarch, etc.) compound of para (beside) and eis (in) and duō to sink or plunge, so to slip in secretly as if by a side door, here only in N.T.
Set forth (progegrammenoi). Perfect passive participle of prographō, to write of beforehand, for which verb see Gal_3:1; Rom_15:4.
Unto this condemnation (eis touto to krima). See 2Pe_2:3 for krima and ekpalai. Palai here apparently alludes to Jud_1:14, Jud_1:15 (Enoch).
Ungodly men (asebeis). Keynote of the Epistle (Mayor), in Jud_1:15 again as in 2Pe_2:5; 2Pe_3:7.
Turning (metatithentes). Present active participle of metatithēmi, to change, for which verb see Gal_1:6. For the change of “grace” (charita) into “lasciviousness” (eis aselgeian) see 1Pe_2:16; 1Pe_4:3; 2Pe_2:19; 2Pe_3:16.
Our only Master and Lord (ton monon despotēn kai kurion hēmōn). For the force of the one article for one person see note on 2Pe_1:1. For despotēn of Christ see 2Pe_2:1.
Denying (arnoumenoi). So 2Pe_2:1. See also Mat_10:33; 1Ti_5:8; Tit_1:16; 1Jn_2:22.
Robertson
crept: Mat_13:25; Act_15:24; Gal_2:4; Eph_4:14; 2Ti_3:6; 2Pe_2:1-2
who: Rom_9:21-22; 1Pe_2:8; 2Pe_2:3
ungodly: Jud_1:15; 2Sa_22:5; Psa_1:1; 1Pe_4:18; 2Pe_2:5-6, 2Pe_3:7
turning: Rom_6:1-2; Gal_5:13; Tit_2:11-12; Heb_12:15-16; 1Pe_2:16; 2Pe_2:10, 2Pe_2:18-22
denying: Tit_1:15-16; 2Pe_2:1; 1Jn_2:22
only: Psa_62:2; Joh_17:3; 1Ti_6:15-16; Rev_15:4
Certain men, as the King James Version has it, had crept in unawares. The Greek (pareisduein, G3921) is a very expressive word. It is used of the spacious and seductive words of a clever pleader seeping gradually into the minds of a judge and jury; it is used of an outlaw slipping secretly back into the country from which he has been expelled; it is used of the slow and subtle entry of innovations into the life of state, which in the end undermine and break down the ancestral laws. It always indicates a stealthy insinuation of something evil into a society or situation.
J.
More like, I want the fullness of everything I've just looked at have a chance to percolate in my mind. I don't mind considering whether such a thing is true or not.
I think there is a better understanding in two destinies in Revelation 22:11, based either on what we do of ourselves, or what God has done for us.
I believe God is going to, one day, make an end of sin, and the one who is unjust, or filthy, will no longer have opportunity to be unjust, or filthy.
There is another distinction I'm noticing. The first two, He who is unjust, he who is filthy, these are verbs, He who is being unjust, he who is being filthy, let him be so still.
And the second two, righteous, holy, these are nouns. The righteous one, let him continue to be being made righteous, the holy one, let him continue to be being made holy.
The one is doing what is wrong, the second has become what is right.
Much love!
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I think this is why Epi so often calls you a religious posturing person.
But not the lambs. Only those whose evil He exposed.
Do you seriously believe the God didn’t reveal to the lambs their evil?
This is where the posturing part comes in.
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Exactly. :)
Was the "good" Samaritan a saint? or did he simply (but righteously) care for others as himself?
The saint must hate his wife, mother, father , brother, sister... in comparison to Christ.
There is NO indicator that to love one's neighbour one must love the Lord more. The saint has a higher purpose. The righteous are far more common.
Righteousness in the weedy soil? The righteous are scarcely saved. They care for people...the second commandment...the "royal law". But the cares are all on the temporal plane. They don't love God more than all. They don't know God. These, from an eternal perspective, lack the requisite CLEAVING to God of the first commandment.
Amen! This understanding opens up a lot of possibilities...to be able to be righteous or holy without falling into the trap of self-righteousness and false judgment.
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While you meditate on this--
Let him do unrighteousness still (adikēsatō eti). First aorist (constative) active imperative of adikeō, viewed here as a whole.
Verb
Tense: Present
Voice: Active
Mood: Participle
Case: Nominative (subject; predicate nominative)
Number: Singular
Gender: Masculine
--to be unjust still--
Verb
Tense: Aorist
Voice: Active
Mood: iMperative
Person: third [he/she/it]
Number: Singular
soil--to soil. Same morphology
δικαιοσυνην
G1343
N-ASF
δικαιοσύνη
equity
ποιησατω
G4160
V-AAM-3S
ποιέω
to make
δικαιωθητω
G1344
V-APM-3S
δικαιόω
just
The language is probably ironical, with a reminder of Dan_12:10, in no sense a commendation of their lost estate. Charles rejects this verse as not like John. It is the hopelessness of the final state of the wicked which is here pictured.
So as to “Let him be made filthy still” (rupanthētō eti). First aorist (constative) passive imperative of rupainō, old verb, to make foul or filthy (from rupos, filth, 1Pe_3:21, as is ruparos, filthy), here only in N.T.
The use of eti is not perfectly clear, whether “still” or “yet more.” It is the time when Christ has shut the door to those outside who are now without hope (Mat_25:10; Luk_13:25).
Ruparos occurs elsewhere in N.T. only in Jas_2:2, and ruparia (filthiness) only in Jas_1:21. So then “the righteous” (ho dikaios) is to do righteousness still (dikaiosunēn poiēsatō eti, first constative aorist active imperative of poieō) and “the holy” (ho hagios) to be made holy still (hagiasthētō eti, first constative aorist passive imperative of hagiazō). The states of both the evil and the good are now fixed forever. There is no word here about a “second chance” hereafter.
Robertson
What Greek bible are you using--I like the word parsing--and is it available on e Sword?
I am no scholar, just trying to assist, no pride, concerned, but no pride.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
the good Samaritan was not like the self righteous jew.. who went around telling everyone how great they were. how they were Gods chosen. Gods people. etc etc.
God also said a husband must love his wife. Honor his parents, and love even his enemy.
Hating them will not make them righteous in Christ.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
his point was the lambs did not hate on Jesus, Just the ones who he exposed as evil
This is why people look to you and epi as false accusers.. you either have an issue reading. Your selectively read. or you do it on purpose.. but you continually show a total inabilitly to read what people say.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
More nonsense . One cannot love their neighbor as commands without first and foremost loving God with their mind, soul, heart and all their strength. Once that is in place then there can be loving others as Christ loved others . You should read the B Attitudes sometime .
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Also hate in the context Jesus used it means to love less. We love God more and as a result we are able to love others . It’s why it’s the first and most important commandment which all others stem from .
I hate to say this, not because I am "a holy Joe" but I am in full agreement with you here--scriptures is clear-not to even fellowship with them, and their "strange fire"/eish zarah.
Lev 10:1 And Nadav and Avihu, the bnei Aharon, each took his censer, and put eish therein, and put ketoret (incense) thereon, and offered eish zarah (strange, unauthorized fire) before Hashem, which He commanded them not.
Lev 10:2 And there went out eish (fire) from the presence of Hashem, and devoured them, and they died before Hashem.
Read Acts 5-
3) "But rather reprove them" (mallon de kai elegchete) But rather even reprove them," or speak out in disapprovement of them. It is not enough to avoid and refrain from former sins of the flesh; a Christian must also reprove them or speak out against them, by word of testimony and by a consistent moral and ethical walk.
Sins of the flesh must not be silently condoned by true believers, but openly rebuked and spoken against, that unbelievers may be convicted of their grave sins as against God, 1Co_14:24; 2Ti_4:2, Tit_1:9; Tit_1:13; Tit_2:15.
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You are missing the distinction between doing what is right in a temporal perspective and being a disciple of Christ. These would seem to be at odds with each other...until you realize that they are in completely different categories.
Notice this...
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Eph. 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Rather than getting all dogmatic and only looking at one side of the equation...look at the difference between the righteous and the holy.
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