How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[amigo de christo]

Being perfect to me is being without sin.

It is also the requirment that God gave for eternal life by our own works.

So what I mean is us being perfect to show us we are his. that is a hard request.

Be perfect as he is perfect? Jesus told the Pharisees what they had to do if they wanted to earn salvation like they thought they did.

He told those same pharisees this , YE shall die in your SINS , for if ye BELEIVE NOT that I AM HE you will die in your sins .
POINT TO CHRIST to the final breath .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This has me scratching my head. Over what is easy and what is hard. One reason I haven’t gone to fellowship dinners in a while. This confused me. Christians fellowshipping during a meal where the topic at the table was others they knew who have not accepted Christ. To literally seeing gloating and pride that “they have chosen Christ” unlike “those they knew who have not.” Gloating over when they will be proved wrong. And to be perfectly ok with others outcome as long as it doesn’t mean them…I guess you are right that it is impossible to be perfect or perfected in Him. That is what we sell “I’m just a sinner” “yet saved”. That is what I mean by shooting our own selves in the foot. Was that what was happening around the dinner table: shooting their own selves in the foot? Claiming how no one can be perfected while discussing “our own salvation” status and others lack of it.

It is all so confusing to me. I can see why Christians are called hypocrites and they claim “No. we are just sinners saved by Grace.”

Sadly, This is a major issue in the church. The church has not really strayed that far from where Israel was in the time of Christ. It thinks it is special. it has arrived. Thank God I am not like the sinner (even though you are)

the pride of many who call itself the church is outlandish. and sad.

Jesus said I did not come to Judge, I came to save.. Yet the church thinks we are sent out to Judge..

I like what Paul said in romans 2. Even though it was written to the proud jews. I believe it fits much of the church today.

2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Be perfect as he is perfect? Jesus told the Pharisees what they had to do if they wanted to earn salvation like they thought they did.

They didn’t love anybody but themselves. (Or at least that seemed to be their continued motive behind every work.) …what he kept asking them. Where is your heart?

If out of every action and thought came forth their work. (The Pharisees)
Then out of every action and thought …what came forth out of Christ?

 

[amigo de christo]

And when HE , the HOLY SPIRIT , shall come he shall reprove the world of
SIN.
HE didnt say of sin because they follow not the social gospel
BUT rather HE said OF SIN because they BELIEVE NOT ON ME .
The social gospel is the enemy of Christ . It might preach good works
but it sure dont POINT TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST . the all inclusive delusion is a lie from hell .
I have come , as have others , to POINT TO CHRIST ALONE .
HE SHALL GET THE GLORY , THUS GOD GETS THE GLORY . GLORY IN GOD , IN HIS CHRIST and not in men and lies .
JESUS gets pointed too on my watch . HE ALONE is the only name whereby one may be saved ,
whereby one may be made the rigtheousenss of GOD , whereby one may be justified
HE ALONE . He who honors the SON , honors the FATHER . ALL else is vain and i will expose it .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Sadly, This is a major issue in the church. The church has not really strayed that far from where Israel was in the time of Christ. It thinks it is special. it has arrived. Thank God I am not like the sinner (even though you are)

the pride of many who call itself the church is outlandish. and sad.

Jesus said I did not come to Judge, I came to save.. Yet the church thinks we are sent out to Judge..

I like what Paul said in romans 2. Even though it was written to the proud jews. I believe it fits much of the church today.

2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Personally. I think you nailed it.
It is true I think. Being able to sit there and say “I do the same”.
BUT is that the point? To sit there and be content with doing the same? Is it only “to be alike” but is there no repentance and turning from it. I’m struggling to say what I really want to say. But stapling it (the body of Christ) to sinning, all being alike in kind and no movement otherwise …like a crutch or an excuse to stay there…what of let us move on?

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They didn’t love anybody but themselves. (Or at least that seemed to be their continued motive behind every work.) …what he kept asking them. Where is your heart?

If out of every action and thought came forth their work. (The Pharisees)
Then out of every action and thought …what came forth out of Christ?

yes.

Remember the one. who said he obeyed the law from birth. Jesus said your lacking one thing. go sell all you have.

Jesus was trying to show him he had not obeyed the law.. But the guy did nto get it. and went away said. Because he did not keep the first commandment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Personally. I think you nailed it.
It is true I think. Being able to sit there and say “I do the same”.
BUT is that the point? To sit there and be content with doing the same? Is it only “to be alike” but is there no repentance and turning from it. I’m struggling to say what I really want to say. But stapling it (the body of Christ) to sinning, all being alike in kind and no movement otherwise …like a crutch or an excuse to stay there…what of let us move on?

I see it as if we think we are sinless we deceive ourselves. We all have issues. We need to confess those issues to those God put in our lives. and to God.

so many churches have become so focused on sin, they can't confess it for fear of being outcast. or judged..

If a church is sitting there doing the same sins on the other hand, and glorying in it.. Then they are just as guilty of those who deny they have any sin and try to hide it..

 

[amigo de christo]

yes.

Remember the one. who said he obeyed the law from birth. Jesus said your lacking one thing. go sell all you have.

Jesus was trying to show him he had not obeyed the law.. But the guy did nto get it. and went away said. Because he did not keep the first commandment.

and come FOLLOW ME . its true the man never truly was keeping the law .
Sounds more like he was doing so for self righteousness .
But had he been doing so through faith , He would have long been sharing his riches with the poor
not heaping and a steaping . YEP , he was not keeping the law through faith
but rather was seeking it through self righteousness . and when SELF got in the way , HE FAILED .
HE couldnt give like that to the poor .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so many churches have become so focused on sin, they can't confess it for fear of being outcast. or judged..

That is the hardest confession (Imo) one that could cost you everything.

 

[amigo de christo]

I see it as if we think we are sinless we deceive ourselves. We all have issues. We need to confess those issues to those God put in our lives. and to God.

so many churches have become so focused on sin, they can't confess it for fear of being outcast. or judged..

If a church is sitting there doing the same sins on the other hand, and glorying in it.. Then they are just as guilty of those who deny they have any sin and try to hide it..

Yea rather most churches have become focused on over looking sin . And that has become their downfall .
Leaders were always supposed to be grave . Most sermons i hear , MOST , focus on
accepting sin or at least closing the eye to it . Either way that wont bode well .
IF we love we would correct those we love . Leaven is more dangerous than folks realize .
AND paul had to rebuke a church for allowing it and not rather correcting it .
PS , if any church casts out one for confessing their sin , Then they got the problem .
BUT if we also just allow it within those walls , THEN WE GOT the problem .
I say we follow the biblical pattern IN ALL things . IT IS the only pattern that works .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is the hardest confession (Imo) one that could cost you everything.

if we hide our sins and deny them, we most likely will be hardened by them, and think they are not really sins. and we will not find healing.

we have to be open. Paul said (I believe) confess our sins to one another for healing,,I wonder if this is why many Christians are so judgmental. Because thjey are forced to see their own sin. instead of confessing it, They hide it, and look to people who do more "severe" sins in their mind, and lie to themselves by saying, At least I am not like that person..

 

[amigo de christo]

if we hide our sins and deny them, we most likely will be hardened by them, and think they are not really sins. and we will not find healing.

we have to be open. Paul said (I believe) confess our sins to one another for healing,,I wonder if this is why many Christians are so judgmental. Because thjey are forced to see their own sin. instead of confessing it, They hide it, and look to people who do more "severe" sins in their mind, and lie to themselves by saying, At least I am not like that person..

YOU might be BIG TIME right on this one . That might very well be the reason why many are so judgmental .
THEY are hiding their own sins and feel like they make up for it by attacking others .
No . we must simply keep the original pattern . WE must confess our errors and pray to be healed .
And we must do all to help the others . correction is a big key as well as is all sound doctrine .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

YOU might be BIG TIME right on this one . That might very well be the reason why many are so judgmental .
THEY are hiding their own sins and feel like they make up for it by attacking others .
No . we must simply keep the original pattern . WE must confess our errors and pray to be healed .
And we must do all to help the others . correction is a big key as well as is all sound doctrine .

sadly, and as you witness here in this very chatroom.

If we go around confessing our sin, and acknowledging it. We are seeing as loving our sin and denying the power of God.

 

[amigo de christo]

sadly, and as you witness here in this very chatroom.

If we go around confessing our sin, and acknowledging it. We are seeing as loving our sin and denying the power of God.

We should confess it . AND REPENT OF IT , forsake it .

 

[amigo de christo]

We should also teach the POWER of CHRIST and not allow folks to believe they must live forever in bondage to sin .
THIS ALSO IS A HUGE problem in the church .
Too many leaders are just teaching the people , OH YE CANT STOP SINNING , OH GOD understands .
THIS IS A HUGE problem too . WE need to return to the original pattern in the bible FOR ALL THINGS .

 

[ChristisGod]

We should also teach the POWER of CHRIST and not allow folks to believe they must live forever in bondage to sin .
THIS ALSO IS A HUGE problem in the church .
Too many leaders are just teaching the people , OH YE CANT STOP SINNING , OH GOD understands .
THIS IS A HUGE problem too . WE need to return to the original pattern in the bible FOR ALL THINGS .

Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound ? May it NEVER be. Romans 6:1. 1 John has allot to say about continuing in sin as does Paul in his letters. I can list them if anyone disagrees.


Jesus teaching

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Luke 11:28
Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it

John 8:31
If you hold to My teaching you are truly My disciples

John 13:17
If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

John 13:34-35
I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

John 14:15
If you love Me you will keep My commandments

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you

John 15:17
This is My command to you: Love one another.

John the disciple whom Jesus loved teaching:

1 John 2
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

1 John 2
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

1 John 2
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

1 John 3
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

1 John 4
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith

Paul's teaching:

Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound ? May it NEVER be !

Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Colossians 3
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Ephesians 2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we would live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age; 13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works. 15 Say these things and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one despise you.

 

[Episkopos]

but can anyone be perfect?

If our perfection is the only proof that we have achieved the Hier calling and are saved.

Then we are in serious trouble.

That's the point! In Him is no sin. All the excuses are just religious mumbo-jumbo. When the standard is so high you better be sure that you are not claiming to be more than you are.

If a king with 10,000 is to meet another king with 20,000...doesn't he try to make conditions of peace knowing that he is doubly overmatched?

So we have to know the standard we are up against. Otherwise we will have started something but stopped short after we commenced and were unable to finish.

Unless we surrender early...we will be defeated by the standard we are claiming...and cast away to be with the hypocrites. Our religious certainty will be exposed for what it is...fables.

 

[ChristisGod]

continued :
Peters Teaching

1 Peter 1
Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

1 Peter 4
As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

That's the point! In Him is no sin. And the rest is religious mumbo-jumbo. When the standard is so high you better be sure that you are not claiming to be more than you are.

If a king with 10,000 is to meet another king with 20,000...doesn't he try to make conditions of peace knowing that he is doubly overmatched?

So we have to know the standard we are up against. Otherwise we will have started something but stopped short after we commenced and were unable to finish.

Unless we surrender early...we will be defeated by the standard we are claiming...and cast away to be with the hypocrites.

still no scripture only your opinions which are not Scripture nor inspired. Please let us know when you are willing to discuss the Bible not your opinions. Thanks !

hope this helps !!!