Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Eternally Grateful]

You make no sense. Being baptized into Christ means being immersed in water.

No it does not
Baptized (immersed) into Christ means just that. Baptised into christ

Baptised into water means just that;. Baptised into water

The baptism in Acts 2:38 is identical to the baptism of John in Luke 3:16, Mark1:4, Mat 3:6, John 1:26, in water, in the Jordan River and, for the same reason, the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, except in Acts 2:38, you're baptized in the name of Jesus Christ putting you into Christ. This is what baptism means: One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Only those who received remission of sin in Acts 2 where baptized.

The rest did not repent, and thus where never given the gift of the spirit.

study up greek language

 

[DJT_47]

No it does not
Baptized (immersed) into Christ means just that. Baptised into christ

Baptised into water means just that;. Baptised into water


Only those who received remission of sin in Acts 2 where baptized.

The rest did not repent, and thus where never given the gift of the spirit.

study up greek language

Goodbye. You make no sense

 

[David in NJ]

No it does not
Baptized (immersed) into Christ means just that. Baptised into christ

Baptised into water means just that;. Baptised into water


Only those who received remission of sin in Acts 2 where baptized.

The rest did not repent, and thus where never given the gift of the spirit.

study up greek language

If water baptism could wash away sins then there would be no need for Christ to die on the Cross.

There would be no need for John the Baptist to say, by the HOLY SPIRIT, = "Behold the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world"

 

[Marymog]

Hi @Titus,

I THINK this is a quote from you. If not from you then from @Bible Highlighter:

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): "We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."

Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned..."

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to "...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ's sentence." For this "heresy" Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council's decree "Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River."

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Catholic church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lets start with the Council of Toulouse. The Council of Toulouse was a local council held by a local church and was not an Ecumenical Council possessing binding authority over the entire Catholic Church. The council addressed the problem of Albigensian heretics (aka Cathars) who mistranslated the Latin Scriptures to support their pernicious heresies.

The Council of Tarragona ratified the findings of the Toulouse Council. When the heretical Albigensian problem was resolved, the limited edict for those LOCAL CHURCHES was no longer needed.

Here is the TRUTH about Wycliff: He had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture. Both the Church and the secular authorities condemned it and did their best to prevent it from being used to teach false doctrine and morals. A fact usually ignored by Protestant historians that many English versions of the Scriptures existed before Wycliff (see Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham, chapter 11).

Tyndale was an English priest who desperately desired to make his own English translation of the Bible. If a new English translation of Scripture was needed, Tyndale would not have been the man chosen to do it. He was known as only a mediocre scholar and had gained a reputation as a priest of unorthodox opinions and a violent temper. He was infamous for insulting the clergy, from the pope down to the friars and monks, and had a genuine contempt for Church authority. In fact, he was first tried for heresy in 1522, three years before his translation of the New Testament was printed. His own bishop in London would not support him in this cause. Finding no support for his translation from his bishop, he left England and came to Worms, where he fell under the influence of Martin Luther. In 1525 Tyndale produced a translation of the New Testament that was swarming with textual corruption. He willfully mistranslated entire passages of Sacred Scripture in order to condemn orthodox Catholic doctrine and support the new Lutheran ideas. The Bishop of London claimed that he could count over 2,000 errors in his translation of the New Testament.

The secular authorities condemned it as well. Anglicans are among the many today who laud Tyndale as the “father of the English Bible.” But it was their own founder, King Henry VIII, who in 1531 declared that “the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people.”

So troublesome did Tyndale’s Bible prove to be that in 1543—after his break with Rome—Henry again decreed that “all manner of books of the Old and New Testament in English, being of the crafty, false, and untrue translation of Tyndale . . . shall be clearly and utterly abolished, extinguished, and forbidden to be kept or used in this realm.”

Ultimately, it was the secular authorities that proved to be the end for Tyndale. He was arrested and tried (and sentenced to die) in the court of the Holy Roman Emperor in 1536. His translation of the Bible was heretical because it contained heretical ideas—not because the act of translation was heretical in and of itself. In fact, the Catholic Church would produce a translation of the Bible into English a few years later (The Douay-Reims version, whose New Testament was released in 1582 and whose Old Testament was released in 1609).

Sooooooo there is YOUR Christian history based on FACTS instead of a few cherry-picked lines from history.

Your Welcome.....Mary

 

[Marymog]

You said: "so that you will know the Truth on how to be saved"

Please share with us - 'how we are to be saved'....

David...........Do you do what He told you to do (Luke 22:19)? What is your answer to Paul's question in 1 Corinthians 10:16?

 

[David in NJ]

David...........Do you do what He told you to do (Luke 22:19)? What is your answer to Paul's question in 1 Corinthians 10:16?

i need to know your thoughts as you have said: "so that you will know the Truth on how to be saved"

Please share = "how to be saved"

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Goodbye. You make no sense

I never will

nor will the bible make sense to you

as long as you reject what the word baptise mean and stop thinking it always means water

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If water baptism could wash away sins then there would be no need for Christ to die on the Cross.

There would be no need for John the Baptist to say, by the HOLY SPIRIT, = "Behold the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world"

sadly people have made a religious word out of a greek verb and made a religion out of it

 

[Jim B]

Ummmm.....So you do know your post supports "centralized leadership"?

If anyone teaches "contrary to what we have preached to you"........... means THEY (the Apostles) are THE centralized leadership and anyone that preaches AGAINST their leadership is accursed.

You do see that, don't you?

Is that seriously your interpretation? That does not mean that the apostles are the centralized leadership. That is nothing but self-justifying Catholic propaganda.

 

[David in NJ]

sadly people have made a religious word out of a greek verb and made a religion out of it

oh that fascinating mesmerizing allure of religion........none can escape it but by the power of the Holy Spirit of Truth

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You said: "so that you will know the Truth on how to be saved"

Please share with us - 'how we are to be saved'....

Let me know if you get an actual answer and not a beat around the bush side stepping the question.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yup CadyandZoe..........You are right. There is no record of The Apostles getting together to form a consensus. Well, except in Acts 15 at The Council of Jerusalem. But other than that......they never did.



Bible Study Mary

Did they form a consensus or did they discover a consensus? In my view, the council was not convened to decide an issue. The council was convened to hear testimony concerning God's opinion on a subject. Both Peter and Paul gave testimony concerning God's revelation concerning Gentiles. The question on the table was "do the Gentiles need to live Jewishly in order to be saved? They didn't put it to a vote. They heard witnesses as to what God was saying.

 

[Titus]

You are hiding from your churches history. The catholic church did try to prevent the common folks from reading the Bible,

Tyndale was an English priest who desperately desired to make his own English translation of the Bible. If a new English translation of Scripture was needed, Tyndale would not have been the man chosen to do it. He was known as only a mediocre scholar and had gained a reputation as a priest of unorthodox opinions and a violent temper. He was infamous for insulting the clergy, from the pope down to the friars and monks, and had a genuine contempt for Church authority

He should have had contempt for the "authority " of the corrupt catholic church.
God never gave the church any authority.
The church is subject to Christ. Matthew 28:18
Christ is its head, Colossians 1:18.

The catholic church never had any authority and never will.

Also you claim the catholic church was trying to protect the sacred Scriptures from being perverted by corrupt men.

He had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture. Both the Church and the secular authorities condemned it

The catholic bible is a perversion. It has added unbiblical uninspired writings from the apocryphal.
Which is Jewish fiction.

You need not worry of anyone perverting the word of God. Your church has been doing that for the longest of any sect. You should be concerned with your own church and its rewriting of the Bible.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hi CadyandZoe,

I don't understand your question: Did they come to start a new religion?

Help me out here. How do you define religion?

Sincerely, Mary

A religion is a cross between technology and magic. It answers to the question, "what technique or ritual must I perform that is guaranteed to induce the god to favor me with blessings such as good crops, good children, a good wife, a good job, etc. ?

The Catholic Religion is filled with rites, rituals, and incantations, which all need to be performed with perfection.

Jesus is the light of the world and among the enlightened ideas he promoted was the repudiation of religion. Contrary to Pagan beliefs, one can not gain God's favor through rituals, rites, incantations, sacraments, or spiritual formation. We have access to God via the Holy Spirit. Consider this passage from Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, which is an epistle to all those in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:13-18

But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16 and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. ​

Rather than entering through Jewish ritual, we now enter through the cross of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

No more sacrifices
No more rituals
No more rites
No more sacraments
No more accidentals or elements
No more magic spells or incantations.
No more hocus pocus [hoc est enim corpus]

The sacrifices of God are a humble spirit, an honest and contrite heart.

 

[Marymog]

A religion is a cross between technology and magic. It answers to the question, "what technique or ritual must I perform that is guaranteed to induce the god to favor me with blessings such as good crops, good children, a good wife, a good job, etc. ?

The Catholic Religion is filled with rites, rituals, and incantations, which all need to be performed with perfection.

Jesus is the light of the world and among the enlightened ideas he promoted was the repudiation of religion. Contrary to Pagan beliefs, one can not gain God's favor through rituals, rites, incantations, sacraments, or spiritual formation. We have access to God via the Holy Spirit. Consider this passage from Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, which is an epistle to all those in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:13-18

But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16 and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. ​

Rather than entering through Jewish ritual, we now enter through the cross of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

No more sacrifices
No more rituals
No more rites
No more sacraments
No more accidentals or elements
No more magic spells or incantations.
No more hocus pocus [hoc est enim corpus]

The sacrifices of God are a humble spirit, an honest and contrite heart.

Interesting...........

 

[Titus]

Hi @Titus,

I THINK this is a quote from you. If not from you then from @Bible Highlighter:

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): "We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."

Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned..."

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to "...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ's sentence." For this "heresy" Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council's decree "Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River."

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Catholic church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lets start with the Council of Toulouse. The Council of Toulouse was a local council held by a local church and was not an Ecumenical Council possessing binding authority over the entire Catholic Church. The council addressed the problem of Albigensian heretics (aka Cathars) who mistranslated the Latin Scriptures to support their pernicious heresies.

The Council of Tarragona ratified the findings of the Toulouse Council. When the heretical Albigensian problem was resolved, the limited edict for those LOCAL CHURCHES was no longer needed.

Here is the TRUTH about Wycliff: He had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture. Both the Church and the secular authorities condemned it and did their best to prevent it from being used to teach false doctrine and morals. A fact usually ignored by Protestant historians that many English versions of the Scriptures existed before Wycliff (see Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham, chapter 11).

Tyndale was an English priest who desperately desired to make his own English translation of the Bible. If a new English translation of Scripture was needed, Tyndale would not have been the man chosen to do it. He was known as only a mediocre scholar and had gained a reputation as a priest of unorthodox opinions and a violent temper. He was infamous for insulting the clergy, from the pope down to the friars and monks, and had a genuine contempt for Church authority. In fact, he was first tried for heresy in 1522, three years before his translation of the New Testament was printed. His own bishop in London would not support him in this cause. Finding no support for his translation from his bishop, he left England and came to Worms, where he fell under the influence of Martin Luther. In 1525 Tyndale produced a translation of the New Testament that was swarming with textual corruption. He willfully mistranslated entire passages of Sacred Scripture in order to condemn orthodox Catholic doctrine and support the new Lutheran ideas. The Bishop of London claimed that he could count over 2,000 errors in his translation of the New Testament.

The secular authorities condemned it as well. Anglicans are among the many today who laud Tyndale as the “father of the English Bible.” But it was their own founder, King Henry VIII, who in 1531 declared that “the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people.”

So troublesome did Tyndale’s Bible prove to be that in 1543—after his break with Rome—Henry again decreed that “all manner of books of the Old and New Testament in English, being of the crafty, false, and untrue translation of Tyndale . . . shall be clearly and utterly abolished, extinguished, and forbidden to be kept or used in this realm.”

Ultimately, it was the secular authorities that proved to be the end for Tyndale. He was arrested and tried (and sentenced to die) in the court of the Holy Roman Emperor in 1536. His translation of the Bible was heretical because it contained heretical ideas—not because the act of translation was heretical in and of itself. In fact, the Catholic Church would produce a translation of the Bible into English a few years later (The Douay-Reims version, whose New Testament was released in 1582 and whose Old Testament was released in 1609).

Sooooooo there is YOUR Christian history based on FACTS instead of a few cherry-picked lines from history.

Your Welcome.....Mary

Books added. by the catholic church to Gods word,
Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch

 

[Marymog]

You are hiding from your churches history. The catholic church did try to prevent the common folks from reading the Bible,

You can't make up your own facts from history.

Historically we know that The Church tried to prevent "common folks" from twisting Scripture (2 Peter 3:16). Unfourtuantly the Protestant Revolution led men like you into thinking they could interpret Scripture on their own.

 

[Marymog]

He (Tyndale) should have had contempt for the "authority " of the corrupt catholic church.
God never gave the church any authority.
The church is subject to Christ. Matthew 28:18
Christ is its head, Colossians 1:18.

The catholic church never had any authority and never will.

Hebrews 13:17 destroys your theory......

 

[Marymog]

Books added. by the catholic church to Gods word,
Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch

Oh the lies your men have taught you.

The Catholic Church did not add books to the Bible. The label “unscriptural” was first applied by the Protestant Reformers of the 16th century. The truth is, portions of these books contradict elements of Protestant doctrine and the “reformers” therefore needed some excuse to eliminate them from the canon.

Here is a history lesson that your Protestant men never taught you and you have failed to teach yourself: The first-century Christians—including Jesus and the apostles—effectively considered these seven books canonical. They quoted from the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures that contained these seven books. More importantly, the deuterocanonicals are clearly alluded to in the New Testament.

The canon of the entire Bible was settled around the turn of the fourth century. Up until this time, there was disagreement over the canon, and some ten different canonical lists existed, none of which corresponded exactly to what the Bible now contains. Around this time there were no less than five instances when the canon was formally identified: the Synod of Rome (382), the Council of Hippo (393), the Council of Carthage (397), a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse (405), and the Second Council of Carthage (419). In every instance, the canon was identical to what Catholic Bibles contain today. In other words, from the end of the fourth century on, in practice Christians accepted the Catholic Church’s decision in this matter. By the time of the Reformation, Christians had been using the same 73 books in their Bibles (46 in the Old Testament, 27 in the New Testament)—and thus considering them inspired—for more than 1100 years. This practice changed with Martin Luther, who dropped the deuterocanonical books on nothing more than his own say-so. Protestantism as a whole has followed his lead in this regard.

 

[Marymog]

Did they form a consensus or did they discover a consensus? In my view, the council was not convened to decide an issue. The council was convened to hear testimony concerning God's opinion on a subject. Both Peter and Paul gave testimony concerning God's revelation concerning Gentiles. The question on the table was "do the Gentiles need to live Jewishly in order to be saved? They didn't put it to a vote. They heard witnesses as to what God was saying.

You should read Scripture before you give your OPINION on it:

But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter.

The reason the council was convened was to decide the issue of was It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.”

Keeping it real with Scripture instead of opinoin.....Mary