How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus died unto sin once...not us.

But we are to reckon ourselves as if we were dead as well.

Romans chapter 6 explains it perfectly.

Unless you have a private interpretation…

 

[ChristisGod]

My question specifically was whether you agree with the interpretation of the passages as I wrote in that post.

I find it meaningful to early establish if we agree on what the Bible says, so we can work through difference views of text. If we can reach agreement whether a passage teaches this thing or that thing, we've gained, we can build on that.

I'm also always very intrigued when someone avoids a direct question, when seemingly participating in a discussion. Was it that you misunderstood my question?

Much love!

Exactly

 

[Episkopos]

But we are to reckon ourselves as if we were dead as well.

Romans chapter 6 explains it perfectly.

Unless you have a private interpretation…

I always hate to bring up the reading skills issue...but I answered you...that you read the verse wrong. Do you see that? or do you choose to change the meaning of the words to fit your ideas??? Are you doubling down on a misreading here?

Go back and look at the verse you posted. And go from there. Build on the issue line by line. But understand the line you are building on.

 

[amigo de christo]

The question is...HOW is that accomplished?


And all Protestants follow Luther...otherwise they wouldn't be Protestant. I think that people can't be honest about what they really believe. They avoid the truth because it makes them sound...like Luther ...who is the church father of ALL Protestants.

Can you say...REFORM!!!!

Try telling that to either bread of life or illuminator . I dont follow luther , nor do i follow the RCC .
as in reform . ITS TIME TO REFORM ALL RIGHT . UNDER CHRIST and not wayward men .
I claim neither protestant , baptists , RCC , JW , or any other denonmination .
But i do claim CHRIST .

 

[Episkopos]

Try telling that to either bread of life or illuminator . I dont follow luther , nor do i follow the RCC .
as in reform . ITS TIME TO REFORM ALL RIGHT . UNDER CHRIST and not wayward men .
I claim neither protestant , baptists , RCC , JW , or any other denonmination .
But i do claim CHRIST .

This thread is NOT ABOUT YOU. I don't care what you have a religious bent for. I thought you were going away...

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I always hate to bring up the reading skills issue...

Please explain it and just come out with the answer then.

If you’re truly a skilled reader superior to me then clear it up…

Then I’ll see where your “skillful” reading is leading you to…

 

[amigo de christo]

This thread is NOT ABOUT YOU. I don't care what you have a religious bent for. I thought you were going away...

I think you should make a thread about what you see as REFORM . just a thought .
I would like to hear what you think reform means and how it should apply . Okay i am out now .

 

[Episkopos]

Please explain it and just come out with the answer then.

If you’re truly a skilled reader superior to me than clear it up…

Then I’ll see where your “skillful” reading is leading you to…

You presented this verse...

“Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more (Jesus); death hath no more dominion over him(Jesus). For in that he died, he died unto sin once (Jesus): but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God (Jesus).” (Romans 6:9-10)

Then you said...

We die unto sin once. (this is not true)

We live unto God. (We can do this after many trials and tribulations in a permanent way)

The next verse then speaks of likewise reckoning ourselves to be dead to sin and alive to God. What it doesn't say is that we are exactly like Jesus. No one starts out at the full stature of Christ. No one dies once to sin.

You might be the only one here that believes that a believer is instantly forever dead to sin. Even the easy-believism people....who are many here...don't reckon that's possible.

So you might have to clarify somewhat what you think Paul is saying...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

PS. Luther wrote a letter on August 1, 1521 stating "If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are in this world we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness but, as Peter says, we look for a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells (2 Peter 3:13). It is enough that by the riches of God’s glory we have come to know the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day (cited in Hendrix, Martin Luther, 121-122).

That’s just…hideous.

 

[Episkopos]

That’s just…hideous.

It's like the religious Trump supporters. Oh, he's a man of God, that cheats lies and swindles..sure. But God uses imperfect people...downright sinners...to accomplish the purity of His designs...and such.

The same goes for Luther. An OBVIOUS renegade monk....but who strikes a chord in the hearts of the carnal minds of those who want an easy gospel they can stomach in their sinful ways. Of course its popular...but there is nary a saint among them.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What it doesn't say is that we are exactly like Jesus.

I didn’t say that.

No one starts out at the full stature of Christ.

I didn’t say that.

No one dies once to sin.

Eventually this happens.

If you believe.

You might be the only one here that believes that a believer is instantly forever dead to sin.

I didn’t say that either.

[ @Michiah-Imla restrains himself from returning a snide comment regarding reading skills]

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Luther severely physically abused his body and went somewhat insane before he decided - it’s impossible for me to stop sinning. And…at that point, he took a serious wrong turn. He didn’t cry to God or go to God for the solution but instead proclaimed there was no freedom from sin in this life, it was an impossibility. If he couldn’t achieve it, then it was impossible for anyone else. And I’ve heard that repeated in varying forms over and over in here.
But here’s the strangest part. He at least BASED what he proclaimed on a REALITY he saw in himself. It wasn’t based on a fantasy!

And so, he was just filled with “love” and free from his struggle - he wanted to reach the Jews so they could be as free as him! Until they refused to believe what he preached - then he wanted to murder them and burn down their houses. He literally instructed everyone to burn down their houses! And that is NOT love.
Wisdom is shown to be right by her results.

 

[Episkopos]

I didn’t say that.



I didn’t say that.



Eventually this happens.

If you believe.



I didn’t say that either.

[ @Michiah-Imla restrains himself from returning a snide comment regarding reading skills]

I'm inferring into your response as I see you inferring into the bible verses.

Are you saying that we can eventually die once to sin??? The reading skill issue is in the "once." That idea is that a sinner NEVER goes back to sin...not even once...NEVER. Just like Jesus who knew no sin EVER dies to sin ONCE.

The reason this is important is because there is a zoofull of interpretations here ...most of whom get shy when you ask them to clarify...since they KNOW they are presuming. They just hope that everyone else is as unsure as they are.

Some believe that they NEVER sin...since Jesus took their sins on His cross 2,000 years ago. So then they will tell you that they died ONCE to sin. When ???? 2,000 years ago.

But you say...eventually...meaning not once...

Can you see the distinction?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Luther

Poor guy…

That’s what happens when you try to do Spiritual things with the flesh…

 

[Episkopos]

Luther severely physically abused his body and went somewhat insane before he decided - it’s impossible for me to stop sinning. And…at that point, he took a serious wrong turn. He didn’t cry to God or go to God for the solution but instead proclaimed there was no freedom from sin in this life, it was an impossibility. If he couldn’t achieve it, then it was impossible for anyone else. And I’ve heard that repeated in varying forms over and over in here.
But here’s the strangest part. He at least BASED what he proclaimed on a REALITY he saw in himself. It wasn’t based on a fantasy!

The fantasy came when his mind broke and he became a Protestant! Throwing grace around like it was confetti. A fate much worse than death awaits someone like that.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

They just hope that everyone else is as unsure as they are.

Uh, yeah…

But you say...eventually...meaning not once...

It can mean once.

Try thinking on it…

 

[Episkopos]

Uh, yeah…



It can mean once.

Try thinking on it…

You need to have a convo with the person here who hasn't sinned for 2,000 years...

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You need to have a convo with the person here who hasn't sinned for 2,000 years...

“…it is abomination to fools to depart from evil.” (Proverbs 13:19)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I understand what you’re saying, I think.
Dead men don’t sin. They can’t. They’re dead.
Living men who sin who say they’re dead to sin are lying. Obviously. You can’t be dead to sin and yet sinning.
Paul said it - if we are those who died to sin, how on earth can we live in sin?? (Paraphrase)

 

[Episkopos]

I understand what you’re saying, I think.
Dead men don’t sin. They can’t. They’re dead.
Living men who sin who say they’re dead to sin are lying. Obviously. You can’t be dead to sin and yet sinning.
Paul said it - if we are those who died to sin, how on earth can we live in sin?? (Paraphrase)

The confusion comes in when you try to synthesize a doctrine or an understanding based on the bible while still walking in the power of the flesh.