Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

@Enoch111 @Taken @Renniks @GISMYS_7 @Backlit @Riverwalker @BARNEY BRIGHT @TLHKAJ @HisLife @Ronald Nolette @post @Wynona @Iconoclast @CharismaticLady @MatthewG @Abaxvahl @BeyondET @RLT63 @Rightglory @Bible_Patrol @Jim B @Johann @Gilligan @Behold @Pierac @n2thelight @Eternally Grateful @Titus @marks @Ernest T. Bass

The Bondage Of A Man's Will​

Free-willians, in a respect, are correct that "there's no difference between self will and free will", and that respect is that both self will and free will lead to hell.
Now, instead of listening to themselves lie with things like "Free will is all through the scriptures", they need to listen to Apostolic testimony as shown below.

Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings such people under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Paul the Apostle wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again. Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14 - and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

Free-willians do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

Free-willians do have a self will, as described by Peter.

Free-willians gleefully separate themselves from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound enthusiastically in joy and love to God by God for God through God, as described by Paul.

The above mentioned Apostolic testimony verbatim:

• "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
• "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
• "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).

Saved by God's grace for God's glory!

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Anyone who teaches that man is not wicked and/or depraved from birth is teaching the doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1), and the balance of this post proves this out scripturally!

Anyone who teaches mankind is born totally wicked depraved sinners is spreading false teaching from false teachers like John Calvin.


Psalm 51:5 NKJV,
-Behold I was brought forth in inquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

Who's sin? The babies sin or David's mothers sin?
Calvinism misinterpretation directs the mind to think this is the babies sin, David.

This is impossible, therefore a perversion of this passage.

The only way one can sin is to understand right from wrong.
Babies have no understanding of morality or Gods law.
Therefore babies are born innocent.

"Behold I was brought forth in iniquity"
All David is saying here is that he was born into a sinful world. As the sins of his mother brought forth in sin.
David is not saying he is brought forth or born as inquity.
Born a sinner.

Babies have no knowledge of good or evil,
Deuteronomy 1:39,
- Moreover your little ones and your children who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.

Only those who can understand right from wrong are sinful, when they choose to transgress Gods law.

Romans 7:7,
- What shall we say then, is the law sin? Certainly not, on the contrary, I would not have known sin except through law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law said, You shall not covet.
Do babies and young children know the law of God?
Paul explains if God did not have a law, Paul would not no what sin is.

Therefore God does not hold babies accountable to His law because babies are without understanding, Deuteronomy 1:39.

If men like Kermos are correct in their doctrine of wicked depraved sinful babies.
Then the consequence of this doctrine logically leads to babies burning in hell.
Calvin taught babies will burn in hell.
All those aborted babies are being sent to hell by God according to this wicked doctrine.

This doctrine is also held by the Catholics.
This is why the catholic church began to water baptize babies, to save them from their sins.
Nonsense.
Babies are sinless according to Jesus!
Matthew 18:3,
- and Jesus said,
Assuredly, I say to you unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Notice Jesus compared those who are converted(forgiven of their sins) to innocent children.
We adults must be as innocent as children if we are to be in heaven with Jesus.

Jesus proves children are without sin.
No child that dies without understanding of right and wrong will be lost!

Cont.

In Hebrew, the grammatical inflection of a word can indicate the person (first person "I", "me"; second person "you"; third person "he", "she", "it"), the gender (masculine, feminine, common), and the number (singular, plural); additionally, noun and verb agreement is established grammatically by inflection of the noun and the verb.

In "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me" (Psalms 51:5), David's grammatical inflection defines David as the iniquitous person. "I was brought forth" comes from a single Hebrew word which is first person/common gender/singular; furthermore, "in iniquity" comes from another single Hebrew word which is common gender/singular. David applied the characteristic of "iniquity" to himself, and the common gender with first person makes this completely clear.

Your heart says that David said "I was brought into a world of iniquity" which is NOT what David wrote, truly David wrote "I was brought forth in iniquity".

The only sinless person of His own doings is the Lord Jesus Christ, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

David was not good because "No one is good except God alone " (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18),

You are nullifying the need for the Savior!

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

He did for a while. If he was made by God to sin, then God was powerless in His will to create man to sin. Because he did not sin for a while.



God concluded all was good, because it was. Your speaking of Adam being 'in control of roaming', is your own doctrine of being made to sin seeping in.

All was good so long as Adam was doing the will of God, which he did for a season.


Then he was disobeying God from the outset by obeying Him, when God is supposed to have created him to disobey.





God fulfilled His prophecy of what would happen to Adam if he sinned. God cut him off from His Spirit of life, so that Adam for the first time hid from the Lord.

True. What men do with the lightening of Christ is their choice. He lightens all men coming into the world, but not all men choose to see and walk in it.



True. Choosing to serve God is a work. Try doing so without resisting the devil.


Cute. There are free-willians, and no-free-willians. I choose the former.


Exactly. Now you have it.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



Exactly again.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

True. God doesn't predetermine who, but only judges what who do.


Only because all men have sinned, and so all men need a Saviour from our sinning.


True. I suppose you could say the door of our soul we choose to open to Jesus has hinges. By choosing to let Him in, we get some holy oil for our hinges. ;)


The old, "what about them never heard?" Ever met one?

Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.

The love and mercy of God ensures all men do hear. Your no-free-willianism is descending into vain philosophy now.


True. For the good and not the evil. And yet all men have sinned against Him. Your Cavin foolishly tried to explain why.

Far down in your post, you asked if I have ever met anyone who had not heard the Gospel of Christ, and to answer, yes. For example, a muslim named Hamid. Now, back to you, Gilligan.

We Christians believe the Christ of us Christians for the Christ says "No one is good except God alone " (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18).

In response to your senseless opening paragraph (which evilly leavens your whole post) , an evil Adam DID sin, just because Adam didn't sin immediately after being formed from the dust does not make Adam good prior to the moment that he sank his teeth into the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The Timeline Of Adam Eating The Fruit - Marking Chronological Milestones​

I'm going to do an exercise in chronological time dilation with "she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6), and I'm going to use present tense for illustrative purposes. The actions of Adam and Eve may not be the precisely accurate, but it serves for illustrative purposes.
TIME MARK ALEPH: Eve takes of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK BEYT: Eve swings her arm toward her mouth as her mouth is opening to take a eat.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK GIMAL: Eve bites and eats the fruit.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK DALET: Eve extends her hand containing the fruit toward Adam's hand.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK HEY: Adam receives the fruit in his hand, and Eve withdraws her hand.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK VAV: Adam swings his hand with the fruit in it 25% of the way to his mouth.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK ZAYIN: Adam continues swinging his hand with the fruit in it, and now he has it 50% of the way to his mouth, and Adam is fully aware of God's command not to eat of the fruit (Genesis 2:16-17).

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK CHET: Adam gets the forbidden fruit to 75% of the way to his mouth, and he starts opening his mouth in preparation to eat the forbidden fruit.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK TET: Adam now has the forbidden fruit threee millimeters from his mouth, but the fruit has not touched his lips, teeth, nor tongue.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK YUD: Adam starts contracting his muscles to close his mouth around the forbidden fruit in order to eat the fruit, but his mouth is still not in contact with the fruit.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK KAPH: Adam's mouth comes in contact with the fruit and he bites and he eats the forbidden fruit in disobedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17).

• The "Adam is evil" sudden contrajuxtaposition of the "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23), and Adam becomes aware that he is evil, that is, aware of his flesh (Genesis 3:7).

From TIME MARK VAV up to and including TIME MARK YUD, the precept of man defines Adam as good because he had not actually eaten the forbidden fruit, yet the intent to eat of the fruit was in his heart.

Of benefit, the Word of God says wrong desire of the heart is sufficient for sin to occur (Matthew 5:28).

This chronological time dilation illustration represents a valuable spiritual truth. Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because if Adam had been good then Adam would have obeyed God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A couple of intructional points from the creation account are:

• left to his own devices, man defies God
• man fell out of ignorance about being evil in his flesh

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Was that an exercise of free will, or did God program Adam to listen to Eve? Do you see how absurd your reasoning is becoming?

Well, since you repeated your questions which were addressed in the post to which you replied, then I interpret that you embed your heart's thoughts into your questions which I now treat your implicit statements.

As I mentioned, I am focused on the scriptural fact that man cannot free-will choose toward God, and in this instance of Adam, it is clearly evident that Adam chose not, for there is no mention of "choose" nor it's conjugates; in fact, Adam's action was away from or against God.

Thus says the LORD God "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’" (Genesis 3:17).

Your heart adulterates this Word of God into "Because you have free-will listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’" (the word of Enoch111).

Additionally, your thoughts that you express above opposes Apostolic testimony for Paul clearly proclaims no will of Adam participated in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because the Apostle conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Not possible, since your teaching is not Scripture's.

When I say mantra, I'm speaking of anything repeated for sake of repetition, that no longer has any bearing on the argument at hand.

I.e. your repeated words are old hat mantra to me, that are become meaningless, since I've already corrected them several times. I no longer bother.


I don't respect someone's words, just because they do it with poignant awe. Babylon the Great has plenty of poignant awe in her heresies.




Christians are the ones most eligible to teach false doctrine, especially that of Christ, because Christians are the ones that most care about it in the first place. And Christians do ignorantly or willingly teach false doctrine all the time, such as yourself. I've sincerely believed and taught false doctrine over the years, until I was corrected.

It's not so much that a Christian has never believed a false tradition and taught it themselves, but that we must be correctable when the time comes.

You're not correctable. You avoid specific challenges, such as the first one I made to your argument, and just write around and over it with your own repeated mantra.


As you've done once again here. Your a copy and paste repeater, rather than an honest debater.

I'll try one last time: Your conclusion that men have no free will, begins with the fact that Scripture does not specifically say men have free will. The same conclusion can be made for men having free will, since no Scripture specifically says men do not have free will.

If you fail to acknowledge this simple point, then you show no honesty in the debate, but only continue down the road of copy and paste doctrinal mantra and false accusation.

We engage in discussion of spiritual matters, so your interjection of mantra expresses explicitly your condition.

A mantra is part of an eastern religion ritual involving doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). A mantra is not Christian. You wickedly used mantra in the antichrist sense to refer to the Word of God which follows. You do not bear the fruit of Godly sorrow for the way you treated the Word of God.

Christians are in awe of the works of God and poignantly the Word of God.

Christians do not adulterate the Word of God nor do Christians nullify the works of God.

You deceive yourself that your words are greater than Lord Jesus Christ's words again because the Word of God eliminates any and all potential for free-willian philosophy with:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage), yet you adulterate the Word of God into "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (the word of Gilligan).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation, yet you adulterate the Word of God into "you chose me to get yourself out of the world and into the Kingdom of God" (the word of Gilligan) - compare your words to the Lord Jesus explaining that without the intervention of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, you cannot even perceive the Kingdom of God righteously, much less King Jesus, with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time, yet you adulterate the Word of God into "What I say to you I say to you and only you" (the word of Gilligan).

Christians are in awe of the works of God and the Word of God. I am in awe of the works of God and the Word of God.

Christians do not adulterate the Word of God. You adulterate the Word of God into some strange beast such that it is no longer the Word of God but truly the word of Gilligan Free-willian philosophy.

You add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is a grievous sin.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Gilligan]

Far down in your post, you asked if I have ever met anyone who had not heard the Gospel of Christ, and to answer, yes. For example, a muslim named Hamid. Now, back to you, Gilligan.

It's not possible for any Mulsim reading the Koran, to not have heard of Jesus Christ the Son of God. Muhammed teaches Jesus as a great prophet, and condemns anyone for believing He is the Son of God.

just because Adam didn't sin immediately after being formed from the dust

So, you finally agree Adam was not sinning right off the bat, as he should have been if God created him to sin. If the devil your preach were indeed the creator of man to sin, and prophesied Adam to sin, then you can b3e sure Adam would have sinned right away.

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The children of the devil do exactly what the devil tells them to do, when he wills it.

does not make Adam good prior to the moment that he sank his teeth into the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

First you say man has no free will, and now you say man can be doing neither good nor evil, but something in between: A teacher of the gray.

(Adam is not a woodchuck. He ate the fruit, not the tree.)

The Timeline Of Adam Eating The Fruit - Marking Chronological Milestones​

However long it takes to name all creatures and get married, with at least one good night's sleep in the marriage bed, probably took some days at least.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

All creatures, including men and women are created good. Word of God. (Gen 1)

• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

All men doing evil, are evil. Word of God. (1 Sam 24)

TIME MARK BEYT: Eve swings her arm toward her mouth as her mouth is opening to take a eat.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

Once again, your error is a carnal minded reading of Scripture. The moment Adam allowed the serpent into the garden, that he was told to keep, is when Adam had lust in his own heart, which Eve showed her lust by deceit:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

• The "Adam is evil" sudden contrajuxtaposition of the "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

So soon as we sin against God, we do evil in sight of God and are judged and condemned as evil by God. (Gen 2)

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Unrighteous works of the flesh proceed from spiritual uncleanness of lust for the world.

Adam becomes aware that he is evil, that is,

Ture. When man sin, he now knows what it is to sin, and the cost of sinning against God. Spiritual death separated from the Spirit of Life.

aware of his flesh (Genesis 3:7).

Now we have some sort of fable in the garden, like Adam and Eve were just spirit sprites twinkling around, unaware of their own natural bodies.

Both Adam and Eve were well aware of the flesh, when they were made flesh in their own marriage bed.

From TIME MARK VAV up to and including TIME MARK YUD, the precept of man defines Adam as good because he had not actually eaten the forbidden fruit,

Not doing evil, is doing good. It's always good not to do evil.

yet the intent to eat of the fruit was in his heart.

Yes, at some point before eating the fruit, Adam was lusting to do so. I say it's proven when he allows the serpent into the garden.

Of benefit, the Word of God says wrong desire of the heart is sufficient for sin to occur (Matthew 5:28).

Exactly. Now you are finally argue correctly from Scripture. Your personal opinion that Adam began to lust at the moment God commanded him not to eat of that true, is possible, but unproven, and based entirely upon your own false doctrine of no free will.

In any case, He was not lusting before that, and so was not created with lust for sin in his heart by God. Christ is not the tempter nor the devil, and the god of this world cannot create or make anything but a lie.

Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

I agree. He must have been lusting to allow the serpent in to tempt Eve.

Eve was apparently still good and pure of heart, until the devil's seduction, when she apparently for the first time lusted to do evil.

because if Adam had been good

When Adam was good, before he lusted.

then Adam would have obeyed God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

He outwardly obeyed it, until he ate it.

Inwardly lusting is a matter of speculation, which at least did not occur before commanded not to.

A couple of intructional points from the creation account are:

• left to his own devices, man defies God

Every time.

• man fell out of ignorance about being evil in his flesh

This is some sort of weird version of being created with sin in the flesh.

All men are no longer ignorant of what it is to do evil, once they do it. Lust is speculation about it with desire to do so.

 

[Gilligan]

We engage in discussion of spiritual matters, so your interjection of mantra expresses explicitly your condition.

True. I don't participate in the mantra making of repeating myself just to be heard.

A mantra is part of an eastern religion ritual involving doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). A mantra is not Christian.

My definition of it applies across all religions and philosophies of men.

Jesus also rebukes mantra making:

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

A habit of people that continually read their own ideas into Scripture, is to not really think about their own ideas in light of Scripture, when repeating them to others.

It's the inevitable result of losing disciplined reading of Scripture, as well as not ensuring our teaching does not contradict any Scripture.

You wickedly used mantra in the antichrist sense to refer to the Word of God which follows. You do not bear the fruit of Godly sorrow for the way you treated the Word of God.

I do not at all agree your word is God's word.

If you think being corrected is wicked, then you need to start a blog of your own and just start writing.

Christians are in awe of the works of God and poignantly the Word of God.

Christians do not adulterate the Word of God nor do Christians nullify the works of God.

You deceive yourself that your words are greater than Lord Jesus Christ's words again because the Word of God eliminates any and all potential for free-willian philosophy with:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage), yet you adulterate the Word of God into "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (the word of Gilligan).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation, yet you adulterate the Word of God into "you chose me to get yourself out of the world and into the Kingdom of God" (the word of Gilligan) - compare your words to the Lord Jesus explaining that without the intervention of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, you cannot even perceive the Kingdom of God righteously, much less King Jesus, with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time, yet you adulterate the Word of God into "What I say to you I say to you and only you" (the word of Gilligan).

Christians are in awe of the works of God and the Word of God. I am in awe of the works of God and the Word of God.

Christians do not adulterate the Word of God. You adulterate the Word of God into some strange beast such that it is no longer the Word of God but truly the word of Gilligan Free-willian philosophy.

You add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is a grievous sin.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Once last pasted mantra, hopefully.

 

[Gilligan]

More proof of free will, is that God does impart will upon any man:

Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land.

Any man can be of a willing heart for the Lord, because all men are made the same with freedom of will to do so.

Some do, some don't, and anyone trying to come up with some reason for it, is foolishly trying to answer a question that God Himself can't answer.

 

[marks]

The Word of God declares "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which is absolutely exclusionary.

Context . . . Context . . . Context.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Let's just look at how your history.

(1) you ignore Philippians 2:12 relation to Philippians 2:13 where God works the will of believers to obey, (2) you think "good" fruit by you is caused by you, yet we Christians know our good fruit is caused by God because it is fruit of the Spirit, (3) you confuse what scripture states such as in Hebrews 3:12, and (4) you didn't know why the Old Testament was written., and there is some about perseverance of the saints by God in the post, too.

The contradiction illuminated between "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God Jesus Christ, John 6:29) contrasted against "this is you working the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass) exhibits your traditions of men fail (Matthew 15:9).

This post preludes the examination of your post in 5 segments:

• SEGMENT 1: your heart adulterates Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) into the words of Ernest T. Bass "you of the office of an Apostle did not choose Me, but I chose you for the office of an Apostle only".
• SEGMENT 2: Commands show who is of who or what, and people in Old Testament times were unable to keep the commandments for the Apostle Peter declared "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10).
• SEGMENT 3: God works believers repentance.
• SEGMENT 4: the first state of being for people is opposition against God.
• SEGMENT 5: you wickedly call God "insane", "cruel", "sadistic", and "evil" - EVEN "EVIL" - yet God loves the children of God soooooo much that God exclusively saves us incapable wretches from the wrath of God.

You are shown that "free-will" is scripturally a misnomer for autonomous will which is properly identified as "self-will" in scripture, and the Spiritual implications are explicit.

You are shown that Lord Jesus' use of "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and in "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you" (John 14:16-17) are to all believers in all time (SEGMENT 1 OF 5 redux); additionally, you are shown to adulterate the words of Christ with "he shall teach you (Apostles) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (the word of Ernest T. Bass) which truly is "the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you" (John 14:26), and a Christian does not do the shameful, unchristian thing of changing the words of Christ!

You call God many evil names. Commands show who is of who or what (SEGMENT 2 OF 5 redux), and man is not saved by the works of man, but man is saved by the works of God.

Now, you adulterate "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18) into your heart's new unbiblical scripture of "Well then, God has granted to offer to the Gentiles also the opportunity for repentance that leads to life." (the word of Ernest T. Bass) (SEGMENT 3 OF 5 redux), and your heart's illegal redefinition of the word granted is exposed.

You wickedly adulterate "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (the Word of God Jesus Christ, John 3:5) into your strange fire of "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one obeys water baptism ritual to cause oneself to be born of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (the word of Ernest T. Bass), and Lord Jesus says being "born of the Spirit" is exclusively under God's Sovereign control.

You blame God for men's actions, yet self-willed men are accountable for their own actions a.k.a. sin and "Man Opening The Door To Salvation - The Free-willian Philosophy Explained" (SEGMENT 5 OF 5 redux) which explains the blood at the cross established a spot in Heaven for an individual who never heard the Gospel, but that spot will remain vacant for all eternity - the god of the free-willians was unable to keep the spot occupied.

Your heart wickedly converts "If it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.'” (The Apostle Paul, Romans 7:7) into your adulterated "If the law had not been, I would have known sin for it is senseless for God to issue the Law. For I would have known with the ability to obey what it is to not covet when the law had said, “You shall not covet.'" (the word of Ernest T. Bass) (SEGMENT 2 OF 5 redux), and your exhibit unbelief in "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (the Apostle Peter, Acts 15:10).

You claim "No one is good except man and God alone" (the word of Ernest T. Bass), yet the True Word of God says "No one is good except God alone " (Mark 10:18), so you argue there is no need for the Savior Jesus because you say man is good enough so you nullify the cross in your heart (Matthew 15:16-19).

In your heart, you adulterate "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9) into your self-willed shout (2 Peter 2:9-10) of "The heart is not deceitful above all things, and not desperately wicked" (the word of Ernest T. Bass).

I quoted Psalm 58:3 to you repeatedly, but you blindly blew past it, and now you adulterate "The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth" (Psalm 58:3) into your unscriptural thoughts of "The wicked are NOT estranged from the womb; these who speak lies DO NOT go astray from birth" (the word of Ernest T. Bass) based upon your closing paragraph, and ALL PEOPLE ARE EVIL AT BIRTH EXCEPT FOR CHRIST WHO was the only sinless person of His own doings for it is written of the Lord Jesus Christ, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21). SEE THAT CHRIST "KNEW NO SIN" - this means that your free-willian philosophy is delusion.

Way back here in January 2023, it is recorded that you wrote "The Bible does say men are sinful, wicked but no verse says man is born sinful, wicked" (the word of Ernest T. Bass), but then from January into March 2023 you were shown "The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth" (Psalm 58:3) which reveals the spiritual truth that is opposite of your hearts treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) contriving that man is inherently good with your adulterated scripture of your unscriptural thoughts of "The wicked are NOT estranged from the womb; these who speak lies DO NOT go astray from birth" (the word of Ernest T. Bass), which is in accord with the doctrine of demons (1 Timothy 4:1) you persist in saying that Psalm 58:3 does not say what Psalm 58:3 does say.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

I just read this post, we won't be conversing any longer I don't think.

Much love!

 

[Titus]

RSV ROM 11:32 For God has consigned/sugkleio ALL men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all.

NKJV Romans 11:32,
This passage very well refutes calvinism.
Calvinism teaches only a certain few were chosen by God to be saved, that God only predestined some to be saved. The rest God predestined for hell.
Paul says God wants ALL to be saved, therefore Hillsage contradicts Paul.

Romans 11:32,
- For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on  ALL.
Calvinism has God withholding mercy from many. Only mercy for some never ALL.

 

[Kermos]

It's not possible for any Mulsim reading the Koran, to not have heard of Jesus Christ the Son of God. Muhammed teaches Jesus as a great prophet, and condemns anyone for believing He is the Son of God.

You said it yourself, the Quran does not teach the Gospel of Christ.

So, you finally agree Adam was not sinning right off the bat, as he should have been if God created him to sin. If the devil your preach were indeed the creator of man to sin, and prophesied Adam to sin, then you can b3e sure Adam would have sinned right away.

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The children of the devil do exactly what the devil tells them to do, when he wills it.


Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

First you say man has no free will, and now you say man can be doing neither good nor evil, but something in between: A teacher of the gray.

(Adam is not a woodchuck. He ate the fruit, not the tree.)


However long it takes to name all creatures and get married, with at least one good night's sleep in the marriage bed, probably took some days at least.


All creatures, including men and women are created good. Word of God. (Gen 1)


All men doing evil, are evil. Word of God. (1 Sam 24)


Once again, your error is a carnal minded reading of Scripture. The moment Adam allowed the serpent into the garden, that he was told to keep, is when Adam had lust in his own heart, which Eve showed her lust by deceit:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

So soon as we sin against God, we do evil in sight of God and are judged and condemned as evil by God. (Gen 2)

So, according to you, "The moment Adam allowed the serpent into the garden, that he was told to keep, is when Adam had lust in his own heart", and you acknowledge that lust is sin because you immediately segue into "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart, but you don't stop there!

You continue with "So soon as we sin against God, we do evil in sight of God and are judged and condemned as evil by God", and it is here that you convey that Adam was evil before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not only that you convey that he sinned before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Unrighteous works of the flesh proceed from spiritual uncleanness of lust for the world.


Ture. When man sin, he now knows what it is to sin, and the cost of sinning against God. Spiritual death separated from the Spirit of Life.


Now we have some sort of fable in the garden, like Adam and Eve were just spirit sprites twinkling around, unaware of their own natural bodies.

Both Adam and Eve were well aware of the flesh, when they were made flesh in their own marriage bed.



Not doing evil, is doing good. It's always good not to do evil.


Yes, at some point before eating the fruit, Adam was lusting to do so. I say it's proven when he allows the serpent into the garden.



Exactly. Now you are finally argue correctly from Scripture. Your personal opinion that Adam began to lust at the moment God commanded him not to eat of that true, is possible, but unproven, and based entirely upon your own false doctrine of no free will.

In any case, He was not lusting before that, and so was not created with lust for sin in his heart by God. Christ is not the tempter nor the devil, and the god of this world cannot create or make anything but a lie.

I agree. He must have been lusting to allow the serpent in to tempt Eve.

Eve was apparently still good and pure of heart, until the devil's seduction, when she apparently for the first time lusted to do evil.


When Adam was good, before he lusted.


He outwardly obeyed it, until he ate it.

Inwardly lusting is a matter of speculation, which at least did not occur before commanded not to.



Every time.

This is some sort of weird version of being created with sin in the flesh.

All men are no longer ignorant of what it is to do evil, once they do it. Lust is speculation about it with desire to do so.

An inherently good Adam would have assuredly and absolutely excluded eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

BECAUSE an inherently good Adam would have acted in the good way of obedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17)

WITH the good way being God's Way (John 14:6)

YET "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)

AND it is written "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (Genesis 1:31)

BEHOLD that God saw the whole package, the complete creation, the "all" that He had made, that it was very good

BUT God did not specify how the aggregate (all) that He had made was very good therein

AND God did not specify any constituents of creation as being inherently good therein

AND God creating "all that He had made" for God in Jesus Christ to come to earth to save evil man is very good

SO with certainty, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is very good

IN other words, if Adam was inherently good, then he could not have eaten from the tree the knowledge of good and evil

BECAUSE it would have been impossible for an inherently good Adam to disobey God's command of not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

SINCE an inherently good Adam would have been the embodiment of obedience of God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

AND an inherently good Adam would have unquestionably refrained from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil without him having the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22)

THEREFORE an inherently good Adam would have done the opposite of good by eating of the tree the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6)

SO an inherently good Adam would have unavoidably avoided eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

BUT there is none righteous, not one (Psalm 143:2, Romans 3:10)

AND there is none who does good, there is not even one (Psalm 53:3, Romans 3:12)

SO there was no inherently good Adam

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.[/COLOR]

 

[Kermos]

True. I don't participate in the mantra making of repeating myself just to be heard.


My definition of it applies across all religions and philosophies of men.

Jesus also rebukes mantra making:

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

A habit of people that continually read their own ideas into Scripture, is to not really think about their own ideas in light of Scripture, when repeating them to others.

It's the inevitable result of losing disciplined reading of Scripture, as well as not ensuring our teaching does not contradict any Scripture.


I do not at all agree your word is God's word.

If you think being corrected is wicked, then you need to start a blog of your own and just start writing.


Once last pasted mantra, hopefully.

Yikes, you continue practicing the lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23) of calling the Word of God an eastern religion ritual involving doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). A mantra is not Christian. You wickedly used mantra in the antichrist sense to refer to the Word of God which follows. You do not bear the fruit of Godly sorrow for the way you treated the Word of God.

No sign of repentance from you right down to your closing paragraph of "Once last pasted mantra, hopefully". In his evil heart (Jeremiah 17:9), man slaps and spits in God's face by calling the Word of God a mantra.

Christians are in awe of the works of God and poignantly the Word of God.

Christians do not adulterate the Word of God nor do Christians nullify the works of God.

You deceive yourself that your words are greater than Lord Jesus Christ's words again because the Word of God eliminates any and all potential for free-willian philosophy with:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage), yet you adulterate the Word of God into "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (the word of Gilligan).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation, yet you adulterate the Word of God into "you chose me to get yourself out of the world and into the Kingdom of God" (the word of Gilligan) - compare your words to the Lord Jesus explaining that without the intervention of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, you cannot even perceive the Kingdom of God righteously, much less King Jesus, with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time, yet you adulterate the Word of God into "What I say to you I say to you and only you" (the word of Gilligan).

Christians are in awe of the works of God and the Word of God. I am in awe of the works of God and the Word of God.

Christians do not adulterate the Word of God. You adulterate the Word of God into some strange beast such that it is no longer the Word of God but truly the word of Gilligan Free-willian philosophy.

You add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is a grievous sin.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Titus]

This is taken from post # 1'622

Anyone who teaches that man is not wicked and/or depraved from birth is teaching the doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1), and the balance of this post proves this out scripturally!

Just the opposite is true.

Kermos tries to use Psalm 51:5 as a proof text for born with a sinful depraved nature, aka Total hereditary depravity.

First it needs to be known that this passage is Hebrew poetry.
Hebrew poetry abounds with bold and imaginative figures of speech; it is frequently characterized
by a freedom which departs from customary forms of expression.
It is therefore a mistake of great magnitude to extract statements from poetical literature and thus employ them as a foundation for doctrinal schemes.

This is also the error of JW, Armstrongites, etc. Who dip into old testament poetical books,
like Psalms and Job, for their doctrines of soul-sleeping and the annihilation of the wicked.

You must learn this next point if you are ever to understand the Scriptures!
One of the primary rules of Biblical interpretation suggests: The language of scripture may be regarded as figurative, if the literal interpretation will cause one passage to contradict another.

There are numerous passages in plain literal language, that affirm babies innocence.
Therefore Psalm 51:5 must not (as calvinist's do) be arrayed against these.

Let us consider the following,
The qualities of children are set forth as models for those who would aspire to enter the kingdom,
Matthew 18:3 ; 19:14
And for those already in the church,
1Corinthians 14:20.
The Lord was not suggesting that we emulate little, totally corrupt sinners!!!

The human spirit is not inherited from ones parents; it is given by God,
Ecclesiastes 12:7 ; Hebrews 12:9.
Therefore at birth it must be as pure as the source from which it comes!!!

Babies are not born with a sinful innate nature.

In a similar poetic language for example Job is denying that he had neglected his benevolent responsibilities affirmed that he had cared for the orphan and the widow FROM HIS MOTHERS WOMB!
Surely, no one believes that on day one of Job's existence that he was ministering to the needy!
In fact, the Hebrew parallelism of this verse, Job 31:18, clearly indicates that the word "womb" is used in the sense of youth.

This false doctrine of born with a sinful nature has a serious problem.
Jesus was conceived by and brought forth from a women, Luke 1:31.
If orginal sin is inherited from ones mother, Christ had it!
However calvinist teach this depravity is only inherted from the father.
Therefore Psalm 51:5 cannot prove it, for it only mentions the mother!

Fact: The doctrine of orginal sin is not biblical.
Therefore anyone who teaches it is teaching doctrines of demons.

It had its origins in post apostolic era.
Such men as Tertullian 160-220 ad
Cyprian 200-258 ad
And later popularized by Augustine and John Calvin.
If we are to be Bible believers only. We must reject this error.

 

[Kermos]

This is taken from post # 1'622

Just the opposite is true.

Kermos tries to use Psalm 51:5 as a proof text for born with a sinful depraved nature, aka Total hereditary depravity.

First it needs to be known that this passage is Hebrew poetry.
Hebrew poetry abounds with bold and imaginative figures of speech; it is frequently characterized
by a freedom which departs from customary forms of expression.
It is therefore a mistake of great magnitude to extract statements from poetical literature and thus employ them as a foundation for doctrinal schemes.

This is also the error of JW, Armstrongites, etc. Who dip into old testament poetical books,
like Psalms and Job, for their doctrines of soul-sleeping and the annihilation of the wicked.

You must learn this next point if you are ever to understand the Scriptures!
One of the primary rules of Biblical interpretation suggests: The language of scripture may be regarded as figurative, if the literal interpretation will cause one passage to contradict another.

There are numerous passages in plain literal language, that affirm babies innocence.
Therefore Psalm 51:5 must not (as calvinist's do) be arrayed against these.

Let us consider the following,
The qualities of children are set forth as models for those who would aspire to enter the kingdom,
Matthew 18:3 ; 19:14
And for those already in the church,
1Corinthians 14:20.
The Lord was not suggesting that we emulate little, totally corrupt sinners!!!

The human spirit is not inherited from ones parents; it is given by God,
Ecclesiastes 12:7 ; Hebrews 12:9.
Therefore at birth it must be as pure as the source from which it comes!!!

Babies are not born with a sinful innate nature.

In a similar poetic language for example Job is denying that he had neglected his benevolent responsibilities affirmed that he had cared for the orphan and the widow FROM HIS MOTHERS WOMB!
Surely, no one believes that on day one of Job's existence that he was ministering to the needy!
In fact, the Hebrew parallelism of this verse, Job 31:18, clearly indicates that the word "womb" is used in the sense of youth.

This false doctrine of born with a sinful nature has a serious problem.
Jesus was conceived by and brought forth from a women, Luke 1:31.
If orginal sin is inherited from ones mother, Christ had it!
However calvinist teach this depravity is only inherted from the father.
Therefore Psalm 51:5 cannot prove it, for it only mentions the mother!

Fact: The doctrine of orginal sin is not biblical.
Therefore anyone who teaches it is teaching doctrines of demons.

It had its origins in post apostolic era.
Such men as Tertullian 160-220 ad
Cyprian 200-258 ad
And later popularized by Augustine and John Calvin.
If we are to be Bible believers only. We must reject this error.

In the Holy Writ, Hebrew poetry exprsses symbolically that which is true; therefore, when the Psalmist wrote "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity" (Psalm 51:5), then David's poetical symbolism reveals that he wrote that he himself is evil for his entire life.

You desperately try to subtract from scripture, and it is written "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9).

In Hebrew, the grammatical inflection of a word can indicate the person (first person "I", "me"; second person "you"; third person "he", "she", "it"), the gender (masculine, feminine, common), and the number (singular, plural); additionally, noun and verb agreement is established grammatically by inflection of the noun and the verb.

In "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me" (Psalms 51:5), David's grammatical inflection defines David as the iniquitous person. "I was brought forth" comes from a single Hebrew word which is first person/common gender/singular; furthermore, "in iniquity" comes from another single Hebrew word which is common gender/singular. David applied the characteristic of "iniquity" to himself, and the common gender with first person makes this completely clear.

Your heart says that David said "I was brought into a world of iniquity" which is NOT what David wrote, truly David wrote "I was brought forth in iniquity".

The only sinless person of His own doings is the Lord Jesus Christ, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

David was not good because "No one is good except God alone" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18),

In your heart, you are nullifying the need for the Savior by claiming man is good, in fact, you think the opposite of Christ's sayings are true resulting in your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) being "Everyone is good even God alone" (the word of @Titus), yet the Christ says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Titus]

In the Holy Writ, Hebrew poetry exprsses symbolically that which is true; therefore, when the Psalmist wrote "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity" (Psalm 51:5), then David's poetical symbolism reveals that he wrote that he himself is evil for his entire life.

This is an assumption without scriptural evidence.
Of course a calvinist is going to claim David is saying he was born sinful.

But that is theology bias not Scriptural evidence.

Since you want this verse to prove babies are wicked reprobates that God is going to burn in hell according to your beliefs not mine.

You can also take Jobs account of taking care of the needy from the womb as literal.

I know you wont for you only take verses out of context when it fits your calvinist interpretation.

As long as you read the scriptures with TULIP colored glasses.
You will never see the Scriptures any different than what you believe now.

 

[Titus]

In your heart, you are nullifying the need for the Savior by claiming man is good

This is misrepresentation.
I dont believe men are all good, perfect spotless.
I believe babies are perfect, spotless without sin.

 

[Kermos]

Context . . . Context . . . Context.

Much love!

The Word of God declares "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which is absolutely exclusionary, yet you tried to change the "Context . . . Context . . . Context" into your non-exclusionary "you did choose Me, and I potentially chose you" (the word of marks based upon your quoted thoughts of "this is not an exclusionary statement").

And, the Word of God tells us Christians what the Christ says to us, of us, because the Christ says "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned in John 15:16 and John 15:19 are to all believers in all time,

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Titus]

You desperately try to subtract from scripture, and it is written "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9

Where does this passage say we are wicked babies from birth?
More presupposition from calvinist theology.

 

[Kermos]

This is an assumption without scriptural evidence.
Of course a calvinist is going to claim David is saying he was born sinful.

But that is theology bias not Scriptural evidence.

Since you want this verse to prove babies are wicked reprobates that God is going to burn in hell according to your beliefs not mine.

You can also take Jobs account of taking care of the needy from the womb as literal.

I know you wont for you only take verses out of context when it fits your calvinist interpretation.

As long as you read the scriptures with TULIP colored glasses.
You will never see the Scriptures any different than what you believe now.

You lie about it being an assumption because David literally states "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity" (Psalm 51:5). David's literally reveals that he himself is evil for his entire life.

You desperately try to subtract from scripture, and it is written "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9).

In Hebrew, the grammatical inflection of a word can indicate the person (first person "I", "me"; second person "you"; third person "he", "she", "it"), the gender (masculine, feminine, common), and the number (singular, plural); additionally, noun and verb agreement is established grammatically by inflection of the noun and the verb.

In "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me" (Psalms 51:5), David's grammatical inflection defines David as the iniquitous person. "I was brought forth" comes from a single Hebrew word which is first person/common gender/singular; furthermore, "in iniquity" comes from another single Hebrew word which is common gender/singular. David applied the characteristic of "iniquity" to himself, and the common gender with first person makes this completely clear.

Your heart says that David said "I was brought into a world of iniquity" which is NOT what David wrote, truly David wrote "I was brought forth in iniquity".

The only sinless person of His own doings is the Lord Jesus Christ, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

David was not good because "No one is good except God alone" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18),

In your heart, you are nullifying the need for the Savior by claiming man is good, in fact, you think the opposite of Christ's sayings are true resulting in your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) being "Everyone is good even God alone" (the word of @Titus), yet the Christ says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.