Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?
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The WORD "BAPTISM" MEANS TO "WASH."
There is only ONE BAPTISM which is circumscribed in Scripture, Ephesians 4:5. And, this is that we read about in Titus 3:5.
In another part of the Bible, the same idea is found in Hebrews 9:22. The word "purge" here means to "cleanse."
Many Christians believe "water baptism" is essential for salvation. NO! Not according to the above and by Peter, who was moved by the Holy Spirit as he penned 1 Peter 3:20-22.
The baptism of Jesus is different from our baptism, seeing He was sinless and therefore no sins to be washed/cleansed.
To God Be The Glory
There is only ONE BAPTISM which is circumscribed in Scripture, Ephesians 4:5. And, this is that we read about in Titus 3:5.
In another part of the Bible, the same idea is found in Hebrews 9:22. The word "purge" here means to "cleanse."
Many Christians believe "water baptism" is essential for salvation. NO! Not according to the above and by Peter, who was moved by the Holy Spirit as he penned 1 Peter 3:20-22.
The baptism of Jesus is different from our baptism, seeing He was sinless and therefore no sins to be washed/cleansed.
To God Be The Glory
Not sure what point you're trying to make. 1 Peter 3:20-1 says just the opposite of your above statement, the baptism DOES save us. Water baptism is 100% essential to salvation.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The greek word means to plung, to immerse. To place into
wash is a secondary defenition of it (speaking of the ceremonial washings of the jewish temple and the items in the temple
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
It says in like manner of the waters of the flood which saved noah and his family. Baptism resembles that thing that does save us also
it does not remove sin. Peter made this clear.
You will not be saved by allowing a sinner to dunk you in water.
@DJT_47,
If water baptism is essential for salvation, why didn't Jesus baptize any? Paul did in 1 Corinthians 1:14; 16; but only a handful.
14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
To God Be The Glory
If water baptism is essential for salvation, why didn't Jesus baptize any? Paul did in 1 Corinthians 1:14; 16; but only a handful.
14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
To God Be The Glory
The chances of becoming truly born again without being water baptised are non !
Well what is water baptism ? well it's that your Christian parents etc have just made a commitment to bring you under the roof of Christianity.
Outside of that is pagan.
The dude on the cross was water baptised most likely, that's why he said what he did.
The funky dude that got water baptised after reading the Bible ? So what ! He was not Saved by it ? but he made the start of such a journey into Christianity, he had a little faith ? and sadly this poor bastard he was not related under the roof of the Church due to parents or relations ?
So this poor funky dude had no relations, he was a bastard to the body of Christ ? but this is the way that they outside of the body of Christ can come into it.
But we who have parents under the roof of the Church would water baptise their baby, because such is a blessing, now who can say it's not ! as such a Baby is under guidance of the Church and all within as one in Christ.
It does not mean that the Child is Saved ! as only Christ can Save !
Most Priest are not Saved, they are only religious and go through such religiously, just like a Jew Priest or any Islamic religion does.
But Christians are called to a higher order than only religious duty and if not so be it a repentant Sinner ? hopefully ! that's better than a just a lost poor pagan Bastard.
Water baptism welcomes one into the Church body as one.
If a Parent does not water baptise their child, they are under a deception.
Look at all of them Jews who did not turn away from water baptism when John was a hand, so who did not get baptised then or called such out as wrong ? No one !
So most likely the dude on the cross with Jesus was water baptised, it goes without saying because he had faith in Jesus.
Very unlikely that one would have faith in Jesus back in the day and not of been water baptised.
Well what is water baptism ? well it's that your Christian parents etc have just made a commitment to bring you under the roof of Christianity.
Outside of that is pagan.
The dude on the cross was water baptised most likely, that's why he said what he did.
The funky dude that got water baptised after reading the Bible ? So what ! He was not Saved by it ? but he made the start of such a journey into Christianity, he had a little faith ? and sadly this poor bastard he was not related under the roof of the Church due to parents or relations ?
So this poor funky dude had no relations, he was a bastard to the body of Christ ? but this is the way that they outside of the body of Christ can come into it.
But we who have parents under the roof of the Church would water baptise their baby, because such is a blessing, now who can say it's not ! as such a Baby is under guidance of the Church and all within as one in Christ.
It does not mean that the Child is Saved ! as only Christ can Save !
Most Priest are not Saved, they are only religious and go through such religiously, just like a Jew Priest or any Islamic religion does.
But Christians are called to a higher order than only religious duty and if not so be it a repentant Sinner ? hopefully ! that's better than a just a lost poor pagan Bastard.
Water baptism welcomes one into the Church body as one.
If a Parent does not water baptise their child, they are under a deception.
Look at all of them Jews who did not turn away from water baptism when John was a hand, so who did not get baptised then or called such out as wrong ? No one !
So most likely the dude on the cross with Jesus was water baptised, it goes without saying because he had faith in Jesus.
Very unlikely that one would have faith in Jesus back in the day and not of been water baptised.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Mary, perhaps you didn't know that the "official" Bible was a Latin Translation (Vulgate) and unavailable to the laity. In fact, it was against the Law for the laity to own a Bible, let alone the fact that Bibles were hand copies and very expensive.
One could argue that the Reformation gave Christians back their Bible, but bear this in mind also, gaining back the Bible was a team effort. Not only was the Bible translated into the common tongue, the Bible was given wide distribution by means of the Gutenberg press.
With regard to "unity" we must always remember, that the Bible doesn't recommend unity for its own sake. Rather, the Ecclesia must always be united around a love of the truth, especially the truth of the Gospel. And what better way to foster unity around the truth of the Gospel than to put the Bible into the hands of faithful believers all around the world.
I take issue with the Catholic apology, which is critical of wide spread distribution of the Bible, arguing that Christians benefit from an "official" exegesis and that multiple exegesis is the cause of division among Christians. This explanation for the presence of division is too simplistic, unaware of the motives of sinners, who break fellowship for any number of reasons.
The Catholic apologist seems unaware of the fact that the Bible is a record of the inspired and accurate revelation from God and as such, the Bible is beneficial for correction, including division. The more the Bible becomes widespread and available, the more the Bible is able to teach, admonish, exhort and correct.
The problem in America is not the fact that she as a Bible in every home; the problem is that the Bible remains on the shelf.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
when a church or organization wants to keep the bible out of peoples hands. Its because they have something to hide.
if someone is seriously seeking the truth.. having a bible in their hand, spo they can study to shew themselves approved.. so they can test each spirit. is not only encouraged, but it is required.
Otherwise. you blindly follow some man or men.. and have no way to test if what they say is true or not.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Yes, without a Bible, the faithful wouldn't be able to have discussions like this and help each other think things through. :) Independence is liberty and with liberty comes human flourishing. :)
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
If you find it helpful to your studies, I offer this video that I created.
Title: A Deep Dive Into Baptism
Is that joy on the faces? That's what I felt when I was baptized. :)
Title: A Deep Dive Into Baptism
Is that joy on the faces? That's what I felt when I was baptized. :)
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Great post! The reason that the RCC wants their people to stay out of the Bible is so that they can "interpret it" for them, thereby justifying their teachings, whether or not those teachings agree with the Bible. This is very similar to the OT priesthood, a separate group of men who "ran the show" the way they wanted. Even though the Bible says that Christians are all part of the body, with Jesus as the head, the Catholic denomination clearly ignores that.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Verse that supports this bold claim, please.
Marymog
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- Mar 7, 2017
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Hello CadyandZoe,
I am a history buff and would like to refute some of your statements using the facts of history:
Perhaps you didn't know Latin was spoken throughout the Roman Empire from Britain to Persia? With the collapse of the Roman Empire came the loss of a single unifying language. As a variety of local dialects sprang up across Europe, Asia Minor and North Africa Latin became the language of the schools and professions such as law and medicine and the Christian Church. During this period few people could read, but those who could learned to read and write in Latin first. The average person couldn’t read, so there was nothing for the Church to discourage, and until the invention of the printing press, copies of the Bible were relatively rare. This made Latin the language of the literate. THAT is why your Christian forefathers and The Church made the Latin Bible the "official" translation. By the time the Protestant Reformation came around there were already popular translations of the Bible, or portions of it, in English, French, German, Spanish, Italian and other European languages.
The Catholic Church was never opposed people reading the Bible. What it opposed was people reading interpretations the Bible apart from the teaching authority of the Church, which would lead to the kinds of problems we have today with thousands of denominations interpreting Scripture differently.
With those historical FACTS in mind the answer to your statement is: No, one cannot "argue that the Reformation gave Christians back their Bible". Christianity was MOSTLY united before the Reformation. It is now MOSTLY divided since the Reformation. What the Reformation gave Christianity was division.
The bible was never taken from them or denied to the laity. Not only was the Bible translated into many common languages BEFORE the printing press, but the Bible was given wider distribution by means of the Gutenberg press. In FACT the bible was chained to the pulpit so that the laity COULD read it at will. Do you know WHY they chained it to the pulpit?
Mary
Marymog
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Hello,
You are right. The Church "must always be united around a love of the truth, especially the truth of the Gospel." Who's "truth of the Gospel" do you follow? The Baptist's? Lutheran's? Mormon's? Scripture makes it clear that we are to Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief. Those that rule over us are to Pay careful attention to themselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. Those that rule over us are to Hold fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. Who rules over you that has sound doctrine CadyandZoe?
Where does Scripture say that the best way to foster unity is to "put the Bible into the hands of faithful believers all around the world"? It doesn't say that anywhere, at any point or at any time. What it does say is that there "are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." Since the Reformation and the printing press we have "put the Bible into the hands of faithful believers all around the world". Is Christianity MORE divided or LESS divided since we have done that CadyandZoe? Can you now see how your theory that everyone should have the bible so we are more united does not work?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Yes, my ex-Catholic friends left Catholicism when they began to study their Bibles.
You must read a bit further to understand clearly what Paul meant. 1 Cor 3:4-6. In verse 6 it says Paul planted and Apollos watered and God gave the increase.
You must read a bit further to understand clearly what Paul meant. Read 1 Cor 3:4-6. There it says Paul planted, Apollos watered.
Behold
Well-Known Member
What caused Luther to run out of the "cult of Mary", basically screaming?
It was 2 things..
Its was Jerome's Translation of the Catholic Bible, that MISranslated "repentance " as 'penance", which Catholics have been doing ever since.
And this one..
Read carefully, how the "cult of mary" teaches that WATER deals with your sin.....and notice JEROME again..... as Luther knew that this heretic was making up his own bible ...
First lets look at the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia..
""""""Regeneration is a Biblico-dogmatic term closely connected with the ideas of justification, Divine sonship, and the deification of the soul through grace. Confining ourselves first to the Biblical use of this term, we find regeneration from God used in indissoluble connection with Water baptism, which St. Paul expressly calls "the laver of regeneration" . In His discourse with Nicodemus , the Saviour declares: "Unless a man be born again of WATER.... """"""
Catholic Doctrine...
""""" WATER Baptism is defined as the “Sacrament of regeneration by WATER in the word” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1213). The specific grace given by Water Baptism produces a regeneration, a rebirth, within the one baptized."""
It was 2 things..
Its was Jerome's Translation of the Catholic Bible, that MISranslated "repentance " as 'penance", which Catholics have been doing ever since.
And this one..
Read carefully, how the "cult of mary" teaches that WATER deals with your sin.....and notice JEROME again..... as Luther knew that this heretic was making up his own bible ...
First lets look at the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia..
""""""Regeneration is a Biblico-dogmatic term closely connected with the ideas of justification, Divine sonship, and the deification of the soul through grace. Confining ourselves first to the Biblical use of this term, we find regeneration from God used in indissoluble connection with Water baptism, which St. Paul expressly calls "the laver of regeneration" . In His discourse with Nicodemus , the Saviour declares: "Unless a man be born again of WATER.... """"""
Catholic Doctrine...
""""" WATER Baptism is defined as the “Sacrament of regeneration by WATER in the word” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1213). The specific grace given by Water Baptism produces a regeneration, a rebirth, within the one baptized."""
Jerome
“This much you must know, that WATER baptism forgives past sins"""
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Mary,
If what you say is true about Latin, then what explains the explosion of translations of the Bible after the Reformation? I think your view of history is a bit myopic.
And I think you need to rethink your argument concerning the presumed united church. Why is it called "The Reformation?" Isn't a fact that the seminal movement was an attempt to reform the Catholic church from within, as exemplified by the 95 theses? Martin Luther didn't set out to leave the Catholic Church. That was the furthest thing from his mind. Before Protestantism, the Catholic church was already divided. And it divided again over the Latin mass and many other issues down through history.
Keep in mind too that Catholics don't really baptize but rather pour water on people.