I don't believe Marks has ever made that claim. I know someone else who has.
What does it mean to be born again?
- Thread starter Episkopos
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Yet when you observe the interactions that is what it sounds like, Christ in me, who knew no sin, me in Christ, therefore I am sinless, not catering to the flesh?
It almost is as if we don't have any will/choice to be obedient to the Divine Imperatives....For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
So, God works IN me through the Spirit, and I am passive, unable to make choices, the "will" is bound?
That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of spirit is spirit.
Put on the new man, that was created in God's Own pattern, in righteousness and true holiness.
That which is born of God sins not.
Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
We are born of the Spirit and therefore we are spirit. Being Spirit, we live in the spirit realm. We are seated in the heavenlies with Christ.
The unrenewed mind works according to the fleshy mind being unrenewed, and therefore is not living by faith. The renewed mind lives according to the new creation, righteous, holy.
Putting on the new man is living according to the new creation. Our minds are renewed in the knowledge of the one who created us . . . why? Because learning about Him teaches us about ourselves.
When we walk in the Spirit, we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Not walking in the Spirit is not walking in faith. That which is not of faith is sin.
In answer to your question, I find of myself that I do not walk consistently in the Spirit, rather I find times I've returned to fleshy thinking, and it's subsequent fleshy acting. But as my faith is being strengthened, I find this more consistent than it was, which is, I think, the mark of a true Christian. That He is increasing in our lives, as we are decreasing. As the outer man decays, the inner man is being restored.
Much love!
Last edited:
I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Co 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is absolutely a true and trustworthy passage
I've seen this work out very clearly in myself. I'm like a lab rat in a test tube of sanctification. The way I was born, the way I was raised, I have mental illness which pushes relentlessly towards sinful thoughts and acts. This is a real corruption of the flesh!! And the fact is, I've never been able to control these things! But in Christ this IS controlled, and requires no effort from me.
Do we have choice? To me, it's a moot point, because I choose godliness, and that is exactly what God is instilling into me. My greatest heartfelt desire is to know Him more. My second greatest is for Him to complete this "working in", the repair of both my ability and my will.
Much love!
Thank you for being brutally honest with me, that is my experience as well, still have "leaven" This Forum is a dangerous place for those who are still struggling and dare not "confess" their shortcomings.
By the GRACE of God there goes I.
Thank you for the continual reminder of the Scriptures I know, and my "commentaries" are not "reasoning away" the infallible Scriptures.
Some here have short memories in trying to understand me and as you may have noticed, now I'm SHARING my thoughts and not my commentaries--Afrikaans/English style.
I want to say more, but don't want to waste your time.
Thanks
J.
I unfortunately haven't been able to keep up with the thread very well, but sure, I'll say Amen to that. And that treasure in us is PERFECT, RIGHTEOUS AND HOLY, since it's created after the image of He who created us. That is what is sanctifying and saving us...the spirit of Christ within our vessel.
It's a perfect seed so to speak, which needs to grow as it were. And yes, we grow by paying the price. Extra oil for our lamps has to be bought. We pay a price to increase in truth also. ( eg, "Buy the truth but sell it not.") And Jesus spoke about those building a tower needing to make sure they count the cost to finish it.
I'd really like to hear more about fully surrendering and about tearing down before building up, if you get the unction. Think that must be about tearing down and overcoming the flesh nature.
Thank you brother, and praise Jesus for you and your honesty.
I think I was a bit harsh with Scott.
Load shedding's here in SA daily, 1:09 AM in the morning, that's how hungry I am for God's word and a good, edifying conversation.
But now off to bed.
If you can, let me know what to read on sound secondary sources, biblical sources with my Bible.
Shalom to you and family dear brother
J.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Don't misunderstand. You and me, if we are "sinless in word, thought, and deed" are not the measure of salvation, not the measure of whether we are saved or not. Thank God! No, but it is Jesus. That's the point.
That is why I elaborated about God being "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Thus, even if we sin after we are saved, what is that to Him? Nothing--just as it is written. To the contrary, it is people who look at things different yesterday, today, and tomorrow--but hopefully not forever, for to do so is to depart from the way of God, never to attain "forever." But if we believe we have attained "Him in us"--we are not the measure, but He is the measure of our salvation according to the way of God rather than men. Our salvation is not of men, but of God.
So, to answer your "straightforward question"--who is it that you mean to address--the old me which the world sees who carries the marks of sin until he passes from this world, or the new me whom God alone sees, this son of God?
Do you see the problem? Lowly men and blind judge one another and argue to the grief of the Holy Spirit, steeling from themselves and from God, all that He has preferred for "we who are alive and remain." Is one who says "I will wait to open the door", qualified to say "for me, to live is Christ" having only allowed "the promise" of salvation through the door when Jesus nocks? He is not. Therefore, it is as they say according to their own measure: They shall wait then until they pass.
Last edited:
Praise our great God and Savior Christ Jesus and to Abba our highest eulogy!
I am tired Scott, hence me misunderstanding and you are going to have to keep on reminding this Afrikaner/English kainos man of these wonderful truths! [That I know]
Yes, yes, you are correct! Praise God, and I really treasure you and Marks in helping me NOT to lean on my own understanding.
I apologize if I was short with you, my brother, this is a whole new learning/yielding daily act. The Lord Christ Jesus used you and Marks today in a powerful way, and I thank God for brothers such as yourself.
I am learning Scott, be patient, keep on correcting since I don't want to sit in the slough of despondency, I am a fool for Christ's sake, but have discernment to discern truth from error.
What a glorious day it was/is
God bless you and family
J.
Correct. But at the same time -- as Paul makes it clear -- "the flesh" is at war with the Spirit. Therefore Paul says that "the flesh" must be mortified or crucified. Which also means that there are times when the Christian will walk according to the flesh. Which means that no one is sinlessly perfect. Therefore Paul exhorts us to examine ourselves, and John tells us that is we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Furthermore we also make God a liar.
Unless we are willing to present ALL Gospel truth and Bible truth, we will not only deceive ourselves but we will mislead others.
Not so fast. There is a husk around the seed of Christ that needs to be broken...otherwise the promotion of that filtered condition leads to adding sin upon sin. Iniquity is adding in the flesh to what is of the Spirit. So people can say...see how holy I am...and yet they are filthy.
The outer man needs to be broken at the cross for the life contained in the seed to come out.
In Hebrew the word for " my bones" (atsmotay) also means "self". When we are crucified with Christ, our bones (self) come out of joint (See Ps. 22:14).
"I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels."
Now in Hebrews it says...
Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The joints and marrow being disconnected is by crucifixion. The LXX makes that clearer (in Job) by translating (atsmotay) "my bones" in the statement about having soul and spirit being separated. Unfortunately the modern translations obscure the Heb. 4:12 reference in Job.
You are not seeing that the husk of the outer man stops the life from coming out. That's why Paul gloried in the cross and its power over the flesh.
You are not making the distinction between the perfection that is IN Christ and what is in you. By claiming that the perfection is in you...makes you a liar. Is the perfection found in Lizbeth? No. The perfection is found only in Christ. You would have to understand the difference between going somewhere to visit someone and someone coming to visit you. A person can visit you and you still have NO IDEA where that person lives. That is the case with MOST of Christendom.
God receives our sacrifice when we offer up our lives (outer man) to be dealt with by the cross. We are to offer up ourselves as a living sacrifice to God. He chooses whether we are ready to be translated into the higher walk...or not. We must persevere...asking, seeking, and knocking...NEVER faltering. As we do this we learn humility and the fear of the Lord. We are totally dependent on Him to take us in.
Now, compare that to the buffoonery found on this thread among those who claim this and that but are spiritually dead (or at least asleep).
Last edited:
I have studied Romans 7 and to this day there is a debate that in this passage it is talking about Paul, the unregenerate man, others, Paul the born from above, personally, I think this was Paul the born from above describing the believers struggle, as I can identify with this, I might be incorrect..
Correct, we must examine ourselves daily, to see IF we are in the faith and to WORK out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
Shalom to you and family.
J.
That's right! The flesh needs to go to the cross for the life to come out. See, people's errors don't always overlap so that one person can correct the other :)...and yet still be missing the main thing.
Most believers will never walk in the Spirit.
They will claim they are fully saved with an intact flesh. Some will go so far as the Gnostic notion that they are no longer responsible for their own actions.
Only when a person is IN Christ do they partake of the perfection found IN Christ. In Him is no sin.
You may be an expert on sin in the flesh...but not the walk that is in Christ...so naturally you don't believe in the power of grace.
But at least your errors don't line up perfectly with the errors of others that claim to be perfect even as they sin.
There is a sort of balance to being carnal. At least the flesh of others will correct your own flesh. So then we can't all agree on the same errors.
But there IS truth to consider...but just not among such as these.
He says, Put to death your members (body parts) that are on the earth, just after telling us we have already died, and our life is hid with Christ in God.
And the body parts - members - are equated with the sinfulness resident in them.
This is where the meaning of death being separation is important. We put to death our members on the earth, that is, we separate ourselves from them. No matter how much my body, my flesh, want to sin in such and such way, no matter the forces it brings to bear against me in trying to gain it's own way, That's not me! I don't have to yield! Deny it, it will go away eventually.
And I think the point is also, so long as we live in this flesh it will always oppose us. It remains contrary to us with it's appetites that have no regard for God, and in fact are inflamed by His prohibitions.
I think the simplest thing to say about this is that we will find ourselves in contrary circumstances, either by conditions within, or without, and regardless, we are to endure by trusting in Christ to carry us through, and to work it to our good. That our lives are according to the will of God even if it is painful. We endure, and that also works His good in us.
Much love!
I don't see any other way to interpret it according to the grammar in which he speaks, and according to the statements he makes. Sin is in the flesh, we are in the Spirit, we have power over our flesh because of Christ. To the extent that we will be actively trusting in this truth, we will walk in it. Momentary lapses snowball in our minds because we think them important, condemning voices cause us to doubt, and we are already in the fleshy mind.
As quickly as we return to trusting in the fulness of our reconciliation in Christ, and giving over to Him any concerns we have, the more quickly we return to walking in His Spirit.
Much love!
- Status
Similar threads
