What does it mean to be born again?

[marks]

The only thing I can attest is that I never have.

Perhaps a question should be, what exactly does it mean to walk in the Spirit.

I believe it can be defined by in the fruit of the Spirit, and in the meaning of Love. The state of the mind and heart being loving, joyful, peaceful/peaceable, and so forth, and the nature of our actions being love, Charity. Christian love. If we are walking this way, we are enduring through trials and not sinning. We are caring for the needs of those within our reach. We are working out our salvation directly as the Spirit works within us.

I don't want to overreach in my description, because we all have our own unique relationship with God. But I believe these will be common to all. How can you say you are walking in the Spirit if you aren't trusting God and loving others?

Beyond this, God will set each of us differently within His body, some to teach, some to heal, some to give, and so on.

What does it mean to you to walk in the Spirit? How do you think of this?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Oh yes we are seated in heavenly places. There is a mystery to that.......need to at least partially grasp how the Lord and heavenly realm exists outside of the realm of time though.

Grasping a concept? Or living in resurrection life? And since you believe that, when you read "you are poor, naked, wretched, and blind" you don't believe that could possibly be you since you surmise you are above all that? Or do you remain open to be corrected by the Lord? Are you rich and have need of nothing? Being seated with Christ gives a person a view that is certainly not blind. But the blind one will claim to be somewhere he/she is not since being blind means you can't see where you are anyway.

So when you read about the blind...do you identify with that? Or only the super spiritual stuff?

I find that once you've swallowed a lie (or half-truth)...it blocks any further truth from going in.

 

[Behold]

When someone reads Paul in a way that makes them think that Jesus was a heretic

This is your 6th post where you have deflected my question, and not told us why you believe that Jesus does not keep you saved..
= "Salvation can be lost"....."i can lose my Salvation".

I understand why you are trying to hide your Cross Denying Legalistic Belief System, as once all these members realize it, and i think this 6x time you've tried to hide it from them...., is going to nearly be enough..... but, i'll let you do it a few more times to make sure they can see you, as i know you to be.

Here is your game.

Paul teaching... ""And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.'"
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his ministers also disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.""

See that Episkopos? Those verses teache that this deceiver will speak "christianese" and sound like a bible teacher. preacher, , and yet, you can discern them and see them as being deceptive, because they will teach God's "gift of righteousness"" as self effort, and never will they give Christ the credit for Keeping them saved.

Episkopos....>HERE (HEAR)>..this false Gospel sounds like truth, but denies the Power of God, that is the Cross.

This heretic will agree that ... "oh YES< Christ is the savior, and he saved me, BUT.....>BUT.....>>BUT"..

See that?

That is.....BUT here is what you have to do NOW, to stay saved.. Here is the self effort you have to DO, to DO, DO < DO< DO, so that YOU are the SAVIOR..... = SELF Saving.. = LEGALISM.

See that? That is CROSS REJECTION< pretending to be Truth., and that is the Devil's gospel., as you well know, Episkopos.

 

[marks]

Again, this makes no sense to me, the Mary's and the wise virgins collapse at His feet as dead?....not putting off the body?
This is where misunderstanding abounds, this is what I would call fancy, poetic "waffling" with words, not using the scriptures, confusion and "mysticism" Scott, as if you "know something that others are not"
I notice @marks "liked" this.

I really liked these word pictures, they were very expressive to me. There are those who don't know God who argue with those who do, arguing that you can't know Him that way now, you have to wait until this life ends. But those who know Him now, they know that joy, and we never were supposed to wait, until our lives have emptied themselves of strength and promise, we are to take ahold of Him now with all the joy of the bride. And live!

And I'm not saying this of anyone, that's not what I'm saying. I found it very expressive.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

This is your 6th post where you have deflected my question, and not told us why you believe that Jesus does not keep you saved..
= "Salvation can be lost"....."i can lose my Salvation".

I understand why you are trying to hide your Cross Denying Legalistic Belief System, as once all these members realize it, and i think this 6x time you've tried to hide it from them...., is going to nearly be enough..... but, i'll let you do it a few more times to make sure they can see you, as i know you to be.

Here is your game.

Paul teaching... ""And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.'"
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his ministers also disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.""

See that Episkopos? Those verses teache that this deceiver will speak "christianese" and sound like a bible teacher. preacher, , and yet, you can discern them and see them as being deceptive, because they will teach God's "gift of righteousness"" as self effort, and never will they give Christ the credit for Keeping them saved.

Episkopos....>HERE (HEAR)>..this false Gospel sounds like truth, but denies the Power of God, that is the Cross.

This heretic will agree that ... "oh YES< Christ is the savior, and he saved me, BUT.....>BUT.....>>BUT"..

See that?

That is.....BUT here is what you have to do NOW, to stay saved.. Here is the self effort you have to DO, to DO, DO < DO< DO, so that YOU are the SAVIOR..... = SELF Saving.. = LEGALISM.

See that? That is CROSS REJECTION< pretending to be Truth., and that is the Devil's gospel., as you well know, Episkopos.

On the menu today from Behold: Some cross avoidance...some blah blah blah...another dash of cross avoidance...then finally bring a fleshly simmer.

The gospel of Christ a devil's gospel? But Paul had it right? Or was it Luther interpreting Paul that had it right.

Regardless, you are looking for what props up sinful flesh. When the flesh is seen as good...then the truth can be seen as evil.

 

[Johann]

Being born again is a pre-requisite to oneness with God. The same goes for seeing the kingdom and entering in. Always a pre-requisite.

But what of the cost of entering into the kingdom walk in Zion, and oneness with the Father?

We need to look to Jesus and what He taught concerning this...

Matt. 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hides, and for joy thereof goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field.

Matt. 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Can anyone give Jesus an amen?

OK...can everyone just continue to ignore Jesus?

And I'm not saying this of anyone, that's not what I'm saying. I found it very expressive.

Much love!

And now it make sense to me as well. Thank you brother..
J.

 

[marks]

As I said, I have great hope in His promises. We hope for what we don’t yet have. We don’t hope for what we already have.

While we may not be currently seeing in our lives the results, the outworking of His promises, yet we right now have His promises.

You seem to have adjusted slightly. Im pretty sure you would say you didn’t though.

Actually, I see changes in myself, but what are you referring to?

But before you were saying, why don’t you believe?? As if hoping in His promises means a lack of trust and only believing you already have all His promises is trusting.

Hoping in His promises sounds like you are looking for Him to fulfill His promises in some future time, but what about this?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness. Which is what I want, a godly life. He's given me everything that pertains.

Specifically, He's given to us exceeding great and precious promises. A promise is a "self commitment", that is, God, Who is not a man, that He should lie, has committed Himself, to the end that we might be partakers of the divine nature, that we will have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

He has called us to glory and virtue, so He's given us this commitment of Himself. We apprehend this in our knowing Him better, knowing Jesus, believing in His power, and His mercy, and His love.

The point I want to emphasize, He has already given this. Trusting His promises is our pathway to partake of the divine nature, having escaped corruption. One of those promises is that He has freed us from sin. Another is that when we see Him, we will be like Him. And there are so many more.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

On the menu today from Behold: Some cross avoidance...

That is the 7th post where you have dodged my question, 7x, and decided to not tell these members why you do not believe that Jesus keeps you saved, Episkopos.

You believe that you can lose your salvation.

7x you have not told them why..

I understand why you wont tell them, and that is what they are learning.

 

[marks]

So Scott, we don't watch, endure and wait?

Not to be alive in Christ, and to live in the victory and fruitfulness and joyfulness of that life. Why would we wait for that? Why not apprehend by trusting Jesus for the full victorious life?

It's so very different from fleshy life, and we can be so very used to fleshy thinking, that we may need training from God. That's the word He uses, training. And His analogies are athletics. Lot's of practice and falls before mastery. But how much do you want this?

We have to be willing to practice the discipline of believing even when our senses, our logic, tells us differently.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

As to endurance this is biblically correct, and you seem to protract the "waiting" with the "coming" in real time.
it also appears to me you spend a great deal in the gospels, not reading the epistles?

Yes, biblically correct. But to "what" end is the common understanding and therefore many error; since Christ has clarified it is not "what" but "who", saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End."

I am not sure what you mean by "protract...in real time."

I read all the scriptures.

Again, this makes no sense to me, the Mary's and the wise virgins collapse at His feet as dead?....not putting off the body?
This is where misunderstanding abounds, this is what I would call fancy, poetic "waffling" with words, not using the scriptures, confusion and "mysticism" Scott, as if you "know something that others are not"
I notice @marks "liked" this.
Our Bible is a Jewish book, Messiah was a Jew, and, from reading through this waffling it is very apparent you read the red letters only, and not the Pauline epistles brother, no offense.

No, "not putting off the body", but rather dead to the body/flesh before the Bridegroom. But do not misunderstand parables--it is not "fancy...mysticism", but the way of God.

As for the language--I am not offended. However, whether Hebrew or Greek, this the words are not, but are spirit. For this reason the scribes and Pharisees being knowledgeable in their own language, did not understand. It is rather the Spirit who leads unto all truth.

 

[Johann]

Not to be alive in Christ, and to live in the victory and fruitfulness and joyfulness of that life. Why would we wait for that? Why not apprehend by trusting Jesus for the full victorious life?

It's so very different from fleshy life, and we can be so very used to fleshy thinking, that we may need training from God. That's the word He uses, training. And His analogies are athletics. Lot's of practice and falls before mastery. But how much do you want this?

We have to be willing to practice the discipline of believing even when our senses, our logic, tells us differently.

Much love!

Again, you are speaking truth to my heart, especially the training and athletics analogy, and the practice and falls before mastery.

We have to be willing to practice the discipline of believing even when our senses, our logic, tells us differently.

You hit the nail on the head with the logic, mine analytical, I love this... of believing, even when our senses tells us differently.

How much do I want it? Right now brother.
Shalom
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What does it mean to you to walk in the Spirit? How do you think of this?

I have no inkling about it because it’s so far out of the realm of my experience. So I go by the many verses, both old and new, having to do with the Holy Spirit coming on a man, to a man, into a man,resting on a man, a man walking in, walking by, full of, anointing of, etc. There are a tremendous amount of these verses. I looked them up about a month or so ago and posted a lot of them in a thread of mine. There are a LOT of them.

And OT and NT, there’s an extremely visible recurring thing in all the biblical examples. And that recurring thing is not as another poster said - you might not even know and it’s not like anything special has to happen when you are in the Spirit. In fact, there’s not one example in all those verses, in the entire Bible, that is as that poster says it is or can be.

 

[Johann]

No, "not putting off the body", but rather dead to the body/flesh before the Bridegroom. But do not misunderstand parables--it is not "fancy...mysticism", but the way of God.

Now this makes absolute sense to me

As for the language--I am not offended. However, whether Hebrew or Greek, this the words are not, but are spirit. For this reason the scribes and Pharisees being knowledgeable in their own language, did not understand. It is rather the Spirit who leads unto all truth

Forgive me for being too hasty Scott, I see with clarity where you are coming from, biblically sound and correct.
I speak before I think and think before I speak in many ways.
All good
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Paul teaching... ""And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.'"
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his ministers also disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.""

See that Episkopos? Those verses teache that this deceiver will speak "christianese" and sound like a bible teacher. preacher, , and yet, you can discern them and see them as being deceptive, because they will teach God's "gift of righteousness"" as self effort, and never will they give Christ the credit for Keeping them saved.

This was the most astounding part.

 

[marks]

Again, you are speaking truth to my heart, especially the training and athletics analogy, and the practice and falls before mastery.

We have to be willing to practice the discipline of believing even when our senses, our logic, tells us differently.

You hit the nail on the head with the logic, mine analytical, I love this... of believing, even when our senses tells us differently.

How much do I want it? Right now brother.
Shalom
J.

You've been reconciled to God in Christ and nothing you do can or will ever change that because it's not up to you. You didn't birth yourself, and you can't unbirth yourself. And God has promised that nothing will every take you away from Him.

Christ has brought you peace with God, so maybe just take a moment and enjoy in God's presence that peace you have with Him through Christ, the cross, always the cross, never you. In Christ.

So enjoy that moment, tell Him something you have in your heart, that is just to say to Him. Sit in silence, knowing He loves you, listening, waiting. Nothing keeps you away from Him, all has been reconciled. And His grand purpose in creating you is that you will have a life loving Him and receiving His love.

Let sweet communion begin!

And whenever you perceive that you've slipped out of communion, remind yourself of these things.

The troubles and afflictions are there to keep us in this sweet spot, as we give up on trying to control our own lives and just focus on getting closer to Him.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

You've been reconciled to God in Christ and nothing you do can or will ever change that because it's not up to you. You didn't birth yourself, and you can't unbirth yourself. And God has promised that nothing will every take you away from Him.

Christ has brought you peace with God, so maybe just take a moment and enjoy in God's presence that peace you have with Him through Christ, the cross, always the cross, never you. In Christ.

I love to hear the blessed "Preaching of the Cross".

Just so beautiful.

 

[ScottA]

I disagree that I was walking in the Spirit in those moments. He was in me, He was leading me, but no, I was not walking in the Spirit. I also disagree with your assertion that one can be walking in the Spirit and not know it. But then, it appears that you and marks are the ones who know how to walk in the Spirit and know what it means and know how to do it and that you two walk in the Spirit, not sinning. So I think it’s you who should be answering questions. I don’t claim to be, or ever have, walked in the Spirit so I’m not the one who should be answering questions. The only thing I can attest is that I never have.

Since @Johann is concerned for you and posting to @marks and I, please allow me to clarify--as we too are not without concern:

We (people) are not the measure of the Spirit in which we may walk in partially or fully as it may seem, or even walking or not walking in Him. But rather, all things are manifest in the spirit, and it is only the knowing that is in part or in full. Indeed, we come to this knowledge of what is true, most in part and few in full--which is no indication as to whether we are walking in the spirit. The idea of walking in the spirit, is a word from the Spirit to the spirit, only a word of encouragement. This is the word of encouragement that Peter needed when walking on the water, and did not get, for it was not yet given in full measure. We need only receive the word of encouragement when we are ready. Relax.

As for walking or being in the Spirit (or in the spirit), we are all in the Spirit--that is the nature of our being created in His "image." You don't have to fully understand the reality of just what it is to be created in or as an image--but rather understand that even if we only believe in part--we shall come to the fulness thereof. That is the promise. So marvel before its revealing, but do not be confused or discouraged--for we are all in the Spirit perfectly placed until that day. Just walk.

 

[Behold]

This was the most astounding part.

God's love sent His only Begotten Virgin born SON down here so that by Jesus's SHED BLOOD....and horrible death, our sins are paid for, and by this one time Sacrifice of Christ on The Cross, we are allowed to come home to GOD and God's family.

And when these heretics, take that Holy Bible, and try to chop down the Cross of Christ by twisting the Word and word of God, in their devil led effort to replace Jesus with Their WORKS and WATER false gospel........ it is the CROSS that shines HOT on their LIES and makes them appear as they are...
.= reveals them, as Deceivers.

See, God is NOT Mocked, and a person will be uncovered by The Cross if they are trying to deny what Jesus has done for us, by substituting their gospel of SELF EFFORT.. in place of God's GRACE.= ""That is the GIFT of Salvation. and The GIFT of Righteousness"

 

[stunnedbygrace]

While we may not be currently seeing in our lives the results, the outworking of His promises, yet we right now have His promises.

Actually, I see changes in myself, but what are you referring to?



Hoping in His promises sounds like you are looking for Him to fulfill His promises in some future time, but what about this?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness. Which is what I want, a godly life. He's given me everything that pertains.

Specifically, He's given to us exceeding great and precious promises. A promise is a "self commitment", that is, God, Who is not a man, that He should lie, has committed Himself, to the end that we might be partakers of the divine nature, that we will have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

He has called us to glory and virtue, so He's given us this commitment of Himself. We apprehend this in our knowing Him better, knowing Jesus, believing in His power, and His mercy, and His love.

The point I want to emphasize, He has already given this. Trusting His promises is our pathway to partake of the divine nature, having escaped corruption. One of those promises is that He has freed us from sin. Another is that when we see Him, we will be like Him. And there are so many more.

Much love!

Oh my gosh, it just strikes me as insanely futile suddenly. I’m not going to argue with you about which promises you say you have already attained to or how much more trusting and believing you are than me since you walk in the Spirit all the time. It’s just insane. It’s like a silly game where you try to look good to others by claiming your great spirituality to win points in the game.
Even the other posters avowal that you could be walking in the Spirit and not even know it is ridiculous and is without a single biblical support. It’s what got me started laughing and now I just can’t take either of you seriously right now.

and then came behold. And it undid me. I can’t take you guys seriously any more.

 

[marks]

In fact, there’s not one example in all those verses, in the entire Bible, that is as that poster says it is or can be.

Unselfconsciousness, that was what I understood her to be meaning. It's just not what a person is thinking about. Focused on washing the dishes, humming a hymn, at peace in the heart, may be just as much walking in the Spirit as preaching the sermon that leads 3,000 to Christ.

Walking in the Spirit is what we should be doing as we are doing everything, including the mundane. And as to the other end of the spectrum, how spectacular? Not all are prophets, not all speak in tongues, and so forth. Some are, and some do, but not all, and we all have our own gifts and ministries.

I see a difference in how the Bible talks about the Spirit being upon, with, and in a person, for instance Sampson was a man upon whom the Spirit came, and he performed great feats, and the Spirit left him again between times. I think we need to differentiate what God intends for us as "the normal Christian life".

I see it portrayed in the fruit of the Spirit, "in love serve one another", this kind of real love in the heart, just like the real gratitude in the heart when we are afflicted, these are to me signs we are walking in the Spirit.

Much love!