Help police! KJV is taking away my freedom of religion in USA reading another Bible versions!
- Thread starter tdickensheets
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
A List of Doctrines Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJB and Modern Translations):
#1. *** CENSORED ***
#2. The Doctrine of Fasting So As To Cast Out Persistent Demons is Removed:
Matthew 17:21 that tells us that casting out persistent or really strong devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, Matthew 17:21 is oddly removed in Modern Translations. Mark 9:29 mentions that you can pray to remove these kinds of devils, but it does not mention fasting. So the key doctrine of fasting so as to cast out really strong demons is gone. So the enemy wins if a person only adheres to the Modern Translations and they have a hate on for the KJV. For if you ever encountered strong demonic activity like this before, you know that fasting does actually help greatly, and not just prayer alone.
#3. The Full Version of the Doctrine on Having "No Condemnation" According to Romans 8:1 is Removed:
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Modern Translations leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The KJV says, as a part of having no Condemnation: We have to (a) Be in Christ Jesus, AND: (b) Walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants Christians today to justify sin instead of battling against it. So the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version on His holy Word to promote the idea that they do not need to worry about sin destroying their soul.
#4. The Doctrine of Psalms 12:7 that the Lord will Preserve His Words Forever is Altered.
Psalms 12:6 says the words of the Lord are pure words, and in Psalms 12:7, the Psalmist says that the Lord will preserve them forever. It's kind of funny or odd that those who are against a perfect Bible existing in our world language today (i.e. the KJV) just so happen to favor Modern translations that remove and alter this very verse. Some do not even believe there is a perfect Bible out there. So who decides what words in the Bible are the true words of God? Do they decide? Now, some may say the perfect Word exists in the original languages. But Habakkuk 2:2 says write the words plainly so that he that reads it may run. So it's not going to be some gobbledygook language that nobody can understand (like biblical Hebrew, and biblical Greek). In fact, all we have today are copies of the original languages. This is not the case with the KJV. Meaning, His Word is preserved forever. His Word moved with the times. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. His Word does not exist perfectly in some dead language, but His Word exists in the English (Which is the world language of today).
Note: My number #1 was removed by Admin because of a lack of freedom of speech here. Yet, the teaching is IN the Bible and is a major doctrine accepted by evangelical Christianity in regards to the nature of God. The very logo of this forum defends this doctrine. This is truly sad. Really sad indeed. Really makes me want to move on to another forum (But I am not sure there is one that is effective whereby people will see your message). I may have to start publishing a website and a series of books instead.
(Between the KJB and Modern Translations):
#1. *** CENSORED ***
#2. The Doctrine of Fasting So As To Cast Out Persistent Demons is Removed:
Matthew 17:21 that tells us that casting out persistent or really strong devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, Matthew 17:21 is oddly removed in Modern Translations. Mark 9:29 mentions that you can pray to remove these kinds of devils, but it does not mention fasting. So the key doctrine of fasting so as to cast out really strong demons is gone. So the enemy wins if a person only adheres to the Modern Translations and they have a hate on for the KJV. For if you ever encountered strong demonic activity like this before, you know that fasting does actually help greatly, and not just prayer alone.
#3. The Full Version of the Doctrine on Having "No Condemnation" According to Romans 8:1 is Removed:
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Modern Translations leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The KJV says, as a part of having no Condemnation: We have to (a) Be in Christ Jesus, AND: (b) Walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants Christians today to justify sin instead of battling against it. So the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version on His holy Word to promote the idea that they do not need to worry about sin destroying their soul.
#4. The Doctrine of Psalms 12:7 that the Lord will Preserve His Words Forever is Altered.
Psalms 12:6 says the words of the Lord are pure words, and in Psalms 12:7, the Psalmist says that the Lord will preserve them forever. It's kind of funny or odd that those who are against a perfect Bible existing in our world language today (i.e. the KJV) just so happen to favor Modern translations that remove and alter this very verse. Some do not even believe there is a perfect Bible out there. So who decides what words in the Bible are the true words of God? Do they decide? Now, some may say the perfect Word exists in the original languages. But Habakkuk 2:2 says write the words plainly so that he that reads it may run. So it's not going to be some gobbledygook language that nobody can understand (like biblical Hebrew, and biblical Greek). In fact, all we have today are copies of the original languages. This is not the case with the KJV. Meaning, His Word is preserved forever. His Word moved with the times. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. His Word does not exist perfectly in some dead language, but His Word exists in the English (Which is the world language of today).
Note: My number #1 was removed by Admin because of a lack of freedom of speech here. Yet, the teaching is IN the Bible and is a major doctrine accepted by evangelical Christianity in regards to the nature of God. The very logo of this forum defends this doctrine. This is truly sad. Really sad indeed. Really makes me want to move on to another forum (But I am not sure there is one that is effective whereby people will see your message). I may have to start publishing a website and a series of books instead.
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
#5. In Genesis 3:16, the ESV (Which is one of the most popular Modern Translations) Doctrinally Changes the Nature of the Truth in the KJV by Saying that Eve's (the wife's) Desire is Contrary To Her Husband.
#6. 2 Corinthians 3:12, and Habakkuk 2:2 is Altered by Modern Translations To Eliminate That God Uses Plainness of Speech.
This is important to understand because Modern Translation folk tend to prefer to look to the original languages to understand God's Word as their one and only go to source. This is not the plainness of speech that God employs. While God can speak in metaphor, or parables, He also speaks in plainness of speech, too. This has to be applicable to our life today in some way. Surely it is not a coincidence that these two key verses are eliminated in their favored Modern Translations (that influences their way of thinking).
#7. Philippians 2:7 Changes Doctrine by Removing an Aspect of the Deity of Christ During His Earthly Ministry.
Philippians 2:6-7 says correctly,
6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Philippians 2:6-7).
King James correctly says that Christ made himself of no reputation.
Various different Modern Translations say that He “emptied himself,” and the NLT says that, “he gave up his divine privileges;” (Philippians 2:7). This is false and it is a denial of the deity of Christ. God cannot cease to become God. God cannot cut out an aspect of who He is at His core in having divine power and yet still be God. That would be a contradiction. The Modern Translations are teaching a gnostic heresy in denying that Jesus has power as God. Granted, Jesus had grown in wisdom (See: Luke 2:52), but I believe this was not an elimination of His divine powers as God, but it was a suppression of them (See: John 17:5, Habakkuk 2:14). For Jesus needed to be a like figure or type of Adam; For Adam also was limited in knowledge when He was in a right relationship with God before the Fall (See: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47). However, Jesus clearly had power as God as a man before the cross. For...
Jesus had power as God:
(during his earthly ministry):
Anyways, these are just a few of the red flags in Modern Translations.
But there are so many red flags in Modern Translations, it would make one think they were in a Russian airport.
#6. 2 Corinthians 3:12, and Habakkuk 2:2 is Altered by Modern Translations To Eliminate That God Uses Plainness of Speech.
This is important to understand because Modern Translation folk tend to prefer to look to the original languages to understand God's Word as their one and only go to source. This is not the plainness of speech that God employs. While God can speak in metaphor, or parables, He also speaks in plainness of speech, too. This has to be applicable to our life today in some way. Surely it is not a coincidence that these two key verses are eliminated in their favored Modern Translations (that influences their way of thinking).
#7. Philippians 2:7 Changes Doctrine by Removing an Aspect of the Deity of Christ During His Earthly Ministry.
Philippians 2:6-7 says correctly,
6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Philippians 2:6-7).
King James correctly says that Christ made himself of no reputation.
Various different Modern Translations say that He “emptied himself,” and the NLT says that, “he gave up his divine privileges;” (Philippians 2:7). This is false and it is a denial of the deity of Christ. God cannot cease to become God. God cannot cut out an aspect of who He is at His core in having divine power and yet still be God. That would be a contradiction. The Modern Translations are teaching a gnostic heresy in denying that Jesus has power as God. Granted, Jesus had grown in wisdom (See: Luke 2:52), but I believe this was not an elimination of His divine powers as God, but it was a suppression of them (See: John 17:5, Habakkuk 2:14). For Jesus needed to be a like figure or type of Adam; For Adam also was limited in knowledge when He was in a right relationship with God before the Fall (See: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47). However, Jesus clearly had power as God as a man before the cross. For...
Jesus had power as God:
(during his earthly ministry):
#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
So Modern Translations are wrong. In fact, many Christians today think Jesus gave up His divine powers; This is because of the wrong teaching (or wrong doctrine) behind Modern Translations.
Anyways, these are just a few of the red flags in Modern Translations.
But there are so many red flags in Modern Translations, it would make one think they were in a Russian airport.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
#8. Modern Bibles falsely teach Jesus had faith.
Hebrews 12:2 (NRSV)
“looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.”
The King James Bible correctly renders Hebrews 12:2.
Hebrews 12:2 (KJB)
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
Jesus is the author or the creator of our faith because He is God. God or Jesus gave us the words of eternal life so as to believe in Him. He created the faith for us to believe in Him, and to trust in Him for salvation and to trust in His words. Jesus is not the pioneer of our faith. That’s a false teaching from Modern Bibles that were influenced by Westcott, Hort, and Catholicism. Granted, if you believe in Westcott, Hort, and or Catholicism, I mean no offense. I just disagree with their beliefs, and I consider them to be unbiblical.
#9. The False Belief that Jesus is a second created god is taught in Modern Bibles:
Modern Bibles wrongfully teach the demi-god Jesus viewpoint in that they wrongfully imply the Eternal second PERSON of the Trinity (the Living Word) had a beginning point in time in being a created being. In John 1:18, in the King James Bible, it correctly says: “the only begotten Son,” but this is changed in corrupted Modern bibles to say: "The only begotten God" (LSV) (BLB) (AMP) (NAS1977) (NAS1995). In Micah 5:2, in the King James Bible, it correctly says of the Living Word (or the Messiah) is: “from everlasting,” but this is changed in the corrupted Modern bibles to: “from ancient times” or “from ancient days” or “distant past.” (Suggesting that the second person of the Trinity did not exist from eternity’s past but had a beginning).
Hebrews 12:2 (NRSV)
“looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.”
The King James Bible correctly renders Hebrews 12:2.
Hebrews 12:2 (KJB)
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
Jesus is the author or the creator of our faith because He is God. God or Jesus gave us the words of eternal life so as to believe in Him. He created the faith for us to believe in Him, and to trust in Him for salvation and to trust in His words. Jesus is not the pioneer of our faith. That’s a false teaching from Modern Bibles that were influenced by Westcott, Hort, and Catholicism. Granted, if you believe in Westcott, Hort, and or Catholicism, I mean no offense. I just disagree with their beliefs, and I consider them to be unbiblical.
#9. The False Belief that Jesus is a second created god is taught in Modern Bibles:
Modern Bibles wrongfully teach the demi-god Jesus viewpoint in that they wrongfully imply the Eternal second PERSON of the Trinity (the Living Word) had a beginning point in time in being a created being. In John 1:18, in the King James Bible, it correctly says: “the only begotten Son,” but this is changed in corrupted Modern bibles to say: "The only begotten God" (LSV) (BLB) (AMP) (NAS1977) (NAS1995). In Micah 5:2, in the King James Bible, it correctly says of the Living Word (or the Messiah) is: “from everlasting,” but this is changed in the corrupted Modern bibles to: “from ancient times” or “from ancient days” or “distant past.” (Suggesting that the second person of the Trinity did not exist from eternity’s past but had a beginning).
Dropship
Well-Known Member
I like the KJV for it's fearlessness, whereas most modern translations have a touch of wimpy pol-correctness about them, so I mostly use the 'dynamic duo' of the KJV and NIV..:)
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I am actually Core KJB, and not KJV Only.Dear KJV only!!
I believe the KJB to be the inerrant Word of God in 1600’s English, but I believe it is a MUST to read Modern Translations to update the archaic language in the King James Bible.
If the King James Bible is indeed the inerrant Word of God for today (and I believe it is), then it would be God’s Word (or His words) that have an authority over us and not any one particular group (Especially KJV Only believers or even Core KJB type Christians). Only God and His words have the true ultimate authority.Are you God? No!Do you have an authority over me?? No!
Legalism in theology is defined as:Are you forcing me read KJV only! That's called legalism!!
“In Christian theology, legalism (or nomism) is a pejorative term applied to the idea that "by doing good works or by obeying the law, a person earns and merits salvation."
Source:
Legalism (theology) - Wikipedia
While there are some KJV Onlyists who do make the KJB issue an initial salvation issue (Which is a minority viewpoint even amongst KJV Onlyists), I am not one of those kind of believers who thinks this way. The gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 can be found in most Modern Translations. But I believe that when it comes to living out our faith, that is a different matter. While I do not hold to Free Grace Theology (Seeing I believe we are saved initially by God’s grace without works - Ephesians 2:8-9, and then we continue in God’s plan of salvation by entering the Sanctification of the Spirit - See 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8-9), most KJV Only Christians are for Free Grace or Faith Alone (Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism). So KJB Onlyists are against Legalism. I also do not believe in Legalism as the term is described, either. I do not believe we merit (GAIN) salvation by good works, but we gain salvation by God’s grace when we are initially saved. I believe salvation is later maintained or continued by a life of holiness in the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:13). You may call that legalism, and many may agree with you, but I call it simply believing the Bible (See also Luke 10:25-28). In fact, grace gives us the ability to do the work (See: 1 Corinthians 15:10). It is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure. So if we do any good works in our life (of which we should do), then it is the LORD who gets the glory and praise and not ourselves.
Are you attending a KJV Only church who really hammers this issue a lot?
Do you live in a really small town that emphasizes this belief by some odd chance?
From my experience of talking online for approximately 12 years, and in living in different cities: I don’t really see the KJV Only position or the Core KJB position being a major oppressive belief here in the United States (or anywhere on the planet for that matter). KJV Only is a minority viewpoint. As of the date of this writing: Core KJB (a term I coined) is even less in numbers than the KJV Only position.
I don’t think this is an open and shut case as you claim. It’s not a reality that KJV Onlyism is an oppressive major belief anywhere on planet Earth.
As for whether or not the King James Bible is the perfect inerrant Word of God:
Well, we should always be ready to listen on a particular topic involving the Bible. Why? Well, the Bible says:
“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” (Proverbs 18:13).
Most who have a “hate on” for the KJB (or the KJB being the perfect Word) are not really listening or they are quick to dismiss any of the points or reasons given by KJB advocates. At least that has been my experience so far. They really do not deeply pray about this matter and or consider if it could potentially be true. They just immediately dismiss it without giving it a second thought.
Anyways, whether you are convinced or not, I still love you in Christ.
I hope that what I said here helps.
May the Lord Jesus bless you and your family;
And please be well.
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Adventageous
Member
Adventageous
Member
#3, here we go:
Let's now consider the NWT Matthew 18:11, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:
Matthew 18:11 NWT - 11 ——
NWT Notation on Matthew 18:11 - "Matthew 18:11 Some manuscripts here include the words: “For the Son of man came to save what was lost,” but these words do not appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts. A similar statement is part of the inspired text at Lu 19:10. Some are of the opinion that an early copyist borrowed the expression from Luke’s account.—See App. A3." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/18/#v40018011
Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Luke 19:10 which does have the words, the NWT notation again false says, "... these words do not appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts ..."
The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:
Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), L*, Theta*; pc, fam 1,13, a, ff1, sin, pal, sa, bo-pt, mae
So when the WTS/JW notation says, "Some manuscripts here include the words ...", they are attempting to negate the vast extant literature which has the text in it:
"... D, E, F, G, H, I, K, L-c, M, N, S, U, V, W, X, Y
Theta-c, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY
Old Latin: a, aur, b, (c), d, f, ff2, g1, l, n, q, r1,2, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Curetonian, Harclean
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Armenian, Ethiopic
Also extant in 0?, 047, 055, 0211, 0233?, 0248? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, page 68
Theta-c, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY
Old Latin: a, aur, b, (c), d, f, ff2, g1, l, n, q, r1,2, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Curetonian, Harclean
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Armenian, Ethiopic
Also extant in 0?, 047, 055, 0211, 0233?, 0248? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, page 68
Additionally:
"... TAITIAN, Diatessaron (I 10:85)
TERTULLIAN, On Modesty (I 4:83), "The Lord had come of course, to save that which 'had perished'." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 40
TERTULLIAN, On Modesty (I 4:83), "The Lord had come of course, to save that which 'had perished'." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 40
Also:
"... The entire verse is found in the Majority of all manuscripts, including D, E, F, G, H, I, K, M, N, S, U, V, W, X,Y, Sigma, Phi and Omega. It is the reading in the Old Latin copies a, aur, b, d, f, ff2, g1, l, n, q, r1 and r2.
It is also found in the Latin Vulgate, the Syriac Peshitta, Curetonian, Herclean, Coptic Boharic, Armenian, Georgian and Ethiopian ancient versions. It was also included in the Greek Diatessaron 160-175 A.D.
It is quoted by such early church writers as Hilary, Chrysostom, Chromatius and Augustine.
Westcott and Hort completely omitted the entire verse from their critical Greek text. And this is mainly because the verse is not found in Sinaiticus, or Vaticanus, and only a handful of other manuscripts. ...
... The entire verse is found in the following Bibles - the Anglo-Saxon Gospels circa 1000 A.D. - Mat 18:11 Soðlice mannes sunu cóm to gehælenne þt forwearð, Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1534, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishops? Bible 1568, the Douay-Rheims 1582, the Geneva Bible 1587, the Beza N.T. 1599, Mace N.T. 1729, Wesley's N.T. 1755, Haweis N.T. 1795, the Living Oracles 1835, The Revised N.T. 1862, The Emphatic Diaglott 1865, The Revised English Bible 1877, Darby 1898, Young's 1898, the Clarke N.T. 1913, Lamsa's Translation of the Syriac Peshitta 1933, The New Berkeley Version 1969, the Living Bible 1971, New Century Version, The Voice 2012, the Passion Translation 2017 and the NKJV 1982. ...
... Foreign Language Bibles that have the whole verse in their text are the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras 1569, Cipriano de Valera 1602, the Reina Valera 1909 - 2011, the Italian Diodati 1569, La Nuova Diodati 1991 and the Nuova Riveduta 2006, the French Martin 1744, Ostervald 1998 and French Louis Second 2007, Luther's German bible 1545 and the German Schlachter bible 2000, the Portuguese Almeida 1671 and 2009 and O Livro 2000, the Finnish Bible 1776 ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
Also:
"... Burgon (14) p 92, states that the verse is attested by every known uncial except Aleph, B, L and every known cursive except three. Also bearing witness to the verse are the Old Latin, Peshitta, Curetonian and Philoxenian Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopic, Georgian and Slavonic versions. Of the fathers citing the verse, Burgon lists: 2nd Century: Tertullian; 3rd Century: Origen; 4th Century: Ambrose, Augustine, Chrysostom, pope Damasus, Hilary, Jerome, Theodorus Heracl.
Burgon adds that the verse was read in the Universal Eastern Church on the day following Pentecost, from the beginning. Berry's Greek text also contains the verse. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
Adventageous
Member
#4.
Let's now consider the NWT Matthew 23:14, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:
Matthew 23:14 NWT - 14 ——
NWT Notation on Matthew 23:14 - "A few manuscripts add the words: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you devour widows’ houses and for a pretense offer long prayers; on this account you will receive judgment more abundantly.” However, the earliest and most important manuscripts do not include this verse. Similar words, though, can be found at Mr 12:40 and Lu 20:47 as part of the inspired text.—See App. A3." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/23/#v40023014
Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Mark 12:40 and Luke 20:47 which does have the words, the NWT notation again falsely says, "... the earliest and most important manuscripts do not include this verse ..."
The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:
Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), D, L, Z, Theta, pc, fam 1, a, aur, d, e, ff1, g1,2, q, Vulgate, sin, pal-ms, sa, bo-pt, mae, Arm-zoh.
So when the WTS/JW notation says, "A few manuscripts add the words ...", they are attempting to negate the vast extant literature which has the text in it:
"... E, F, G, H, K, M, O, S, U, V, W, Y
Gamma, Delta-gr, Theta-c, Pi, Sigma, Omega
0104
Cursives: MAJORITY, (fam 13)
Old Latin: b, c, f, ff2, h, l, r1,2, Vulgate-pt
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Curetonian, Harclean, Palestinean-mss
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Armenian-usc (apparently), Ethiopic
... Also extant in Phi, 047, 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, page 71
Gamma, Delta-gr, Theta-c, Pi, Sigma, Omega
0104
Cursives: MAJORITY, (fam 13)
Old Latin: b, c, f, ff2, h, l, r1,2, Vulgate-pt
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Curetonian, Harclean, Palestinean-mss
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Armenian-usc (apparently), Ethiopic
... Also extant in Phi, 047, 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, page 71
Moreover:
"... Patristic Evidentiary Support for the Genuineness of the above Passage - THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS 38 VOLUME SET DIGITAL VERSION
170 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Ante-Nicene Fathers - Volume 9 - The Diatessaron of Tatian. - The Diatessaron. - Section 40.
[32] And in the course of his teaching he said unto them, Guard yourselves from the [33] scribes, who desire to walk in robes, and love salutation in the marketplaces, and sitting in the highest places of the synagogues, and at feasts in the highest parts of [34] the rooms: and they broaden their amulets, and lengthen the cords of their cloaks, [35] and love that they should be called by men, My master, and DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, BECAUSE OF THEIR PROLONGING THEIR PRAYERS; THESE THEN SHALL RECEIVE GREATER JUDGEMENT.
170 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Ante-Nicene Fathers - Volume 9 - The Diatessaron of Tatian. - The Diatessaron. - Section 40.
[42] “WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! BECAUSE YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, BECAUSE OF YOUR PROLONGING YOUR PRAYERS; FOR THIS REASON YE SHALL RECEIVE GREATER JUDGMENT.”
347-407 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 10 - St. Chrysostom: Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew - The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom. - Homily LXX - Matthew 23:14.
“WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! FOR YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, AND FOR A PRETENSE MAKE LONG PRAYERS; THEREFORE YE SHALL RECEIVE GREATER DAMNATION.”
347-407 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 11 - Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans - The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Paul's Epistle to the Romans - Homily XXXII on Rom. 16:17, 18.
And Christ also blames them on this head: “YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES” (Matt 23:14), He says. And the Prophets accuse them of things of the kind. ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
170 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Ante-Nicene Fathers - Volume 9 - The Diatessaron of Tatian. - The Diatessaron. - Section 40.
[32] And in the course of his teaching he said unto them, Guard yourselves from the [33] scribes, who desire to walk in robes, and love salutation in the marketplaces, and sitting in the highest places of the synagogues, and at feasts in the highest parts of [34] the rooms: and they broaden their amulets, and lengthen the cords of their cloaks, [35] and love that they should be called by men, My master, and DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, BECAUSE OF THEIR PROLONGING THEIR PRAYERS; THESE THEN SHALL RECEIVE GREATER JUDGEMENT.
170 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Ante-Nicene Fathers - Volume 9 - The Diatessaron of Tatian. - The Diatessaron. - Section 40.
[42] “WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! BECAUSE YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, BECAUSE OF YOUR PROLONGING YOUR PRAYERS; FOR THIS REASON YE SHALL RECEIVE GREATER JUDGMENT.”
347-407 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 10 - St. Chrysostom: Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew - The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom. - Homily LXX - Matthew 23:14.
“WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! FOR YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, AND FOR A PRETENSE MAKE LONG PRAYERS; THEREFORE YE SHALL RECEIVE GREATER DAMNATION.”
347-407 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 11 - Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans - The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Paul's Epistle to the Romans - Homily XXXII on Rom. 16:17, 18.
And Christ also blames them on this head: “YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES” (Matt 23:14), He says. And the Prophets accuse them of things of the kind. ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
Adventageous
Member
I take this to mean, you are saying that any thread which slightly deviates from the OP in a few posts, will be closed? If so, there are many other threads which will also need your immediate attention.
#5
Let's now consider the NWT Mark 7:16, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:
Mark 7:16 NWT - 16 ——
NWT Notation on Mark 7:16 - "Some manuscripts here include the words “If anyone has ears to listen, let him listen,” but they do not appear in important early manuscripts. Therefore, these words are evidently not part of the original text of Mark. Similar words, though, can be found at Mr 4:9, 23 as part of the inspired Scriptures. Some scholars are of the opinion that a copyist introduced these words here as a natural comment following verse 14 by drawing from the wording at Mr 4:9, 23.—See App. A3." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/7/#v41007016
Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Mark 4:9,23 which does have the words, the NWT notation again falsely says, "... Some manuscripts ... but they do not appear in important early manuscripts ..."
"Important"? Who decided that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus were "important", or even "early" or even accurate or true?
The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:
Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), L, Delta*, 0274, 28, 2427
Yet, even in the Nestle/Aland footnotes, they specifically make mention of those texts that they know it to be in, though this is not all of the materials that it does exist in:
"... A, D, W
Theta
Ë1,13,
33
ï
latt sy ..." - Mark 7, New English Translation (NET) | The Bible App or NETBible: Mark 7
Theta
Ë1,13,
33
ï
latt sy ..." - Mark 7, New English Translation (NET) | The Bible App or NETBible: Mark 7
Peter Ruckman, cites:
"... Tatian's Diatessaron (180 AD) and the Gothic version of Ulfilas (320 AD) as the earliest authorities for this verse. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
Thomas Aquinas, cites in Catena Aurea:
"... Pseudo-Chrys., Vict. Ant. e Cat. in Marc.: Again He subjoins, “If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” For He had not clearly shewn them, what those things are which proceed out of a man, and defile a man; and on account of this saying, the Apostles thought that the foregoing discourse of the Lord implied some other deep thing. ..." - St. Thomas Aquinas: Catena Aurea - Gospel of Mark - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
It was more to do with what you were choosing to discuss !
Adventageous
Member
That the last era is total Tyranny?
#6.
Let's now consider the NWT Mark 9:44, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:
Mark 9:44 NWT - 44 ——
"... Some manuscripts read here “where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out,” but these words do not appear in important early manuscripts. Similar words do appear in verse 48, where there is no uncertainty regarding the text. Evidence suggests that a scribe or scribes repeated the words from verse 48 in verses 44 and 46.—See App. A3. ..." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/9/#v41009044
Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Mark 9:48 which does have the words, the NWT notation again falsely says, "... Some manuscripts ... but these words do not appear in important early manuscripts ..."
The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:
Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), C, L, W, Delta, Psi, pc, fam 1, sin, Coptic: sa, bo, fay, Arm-zoh,mss
So when the WTS/JW notation says, "... these words do not appear in important early manuscripts ...", they are attempting to negate the vast extant literature which has the text in it:
"... A, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, N, S, U, V, X, Y
Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 13
Old Latin: a, aur, b, c, d, ff2, g2, i, l, q, r1, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean
Gothic, Armenian-usc (apparently), Ethiopic
Also extant in 047?. 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257?, 0274 ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 79-80
Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 13
Old Latin: a, aur, b, c, d, ff2, g2, i, l, q, r1, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean
Gothic, Armenian-usc (apparently), Ethiopic
Also extant in 047?. 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257?, 0274 ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 79-80
Additionally:
"... TATIAN, Diatessaron (I 10:82)
GREGORY OF NAZIANZEN, Orations (III 7:373) ... There are no indications in the ANPF indices of a pre-400 Father skipping from verse 43 to 45 in his quotation. ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 43
GREGORY OF NAZIANZEN, Orations (III 7:373) ... There are no indications in the ANPF indices of a pre-400 Father skipping from verse 43 to 45 in his quotation. ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 43
More:"... Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
More:
"... the Latin Vulgate and the Clementine Vulgate, the Syriac Palestinian, Harclean, the Ethiopic, Slavonic and the Gothic ancient versions. It is the reading in the Modern Greek Bibles used throughout the Greek speaking world in the Orthodox churches today. ...
The verses are included in the Anglo-Saxon Gospels Corpus Christi Mss. 140 circa 1000 A.D. Though we cannot read it, it was obviously in this predecessor to the English Bibles - Mark 9:44 þar hyra wyrm ne swylt & fyr ne bið acwenced;
Mark 9:45 And gif ðin fot swicað þe ceorf hine of. betere þe is þt þu healt gá. on écé lif þonne þu hæbbe twegen fet & si aworpen on helle un-acwencedlices fyres. Mark 9:46 þar hyra wyrm ne swylt ne fyr ne bið adwæsced ...
...
354-430 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 2 - St. Augustin: City of God, Christian Doctrine - City of God - Book XXI - Of the eternal punishment of the wicked in hell, and of the various objections urged against it. - Chapter 9 - Of Hell, and the Nature of Eternal Punishments.
“It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THEIR FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” Similarly of the foot: “It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” So, too, of the eye: “It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”
HE DID NOT SHRINK FROM USING THE SAME WORDS THREE TIMES OVER IN ONE PASSAGE. And who is not terrified by this repetition, and by the threat of that punishment uttered so vehemently by the lips of the Lord Himself?"
" - Another King James Bible Believer
The verses are included in the Anglo-Saxon Gospels Corpus Christi Mss. 140 circa 1000 A.D. Though we cannot read it, it was obviously in this predecessor to the English Bibles - Mark 9:44 þar hyra wyrm ne swylt & fyr ne bið acwenced;
Mark 9:45 And gif ðin fot swicað þe ceorf hine of. betere þe is þt þu healt gá. on écé lif þonne þu hæbbe twegen fet & si aworpen on helle un-acwencedlices fyres. Mark 9:46 þar hyra wyrm ne swylt ne fyr ne bið adwæsced ...
...
354-430 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 2 - St. Augustin: City of God, Christian Doctrine - City of God - Book XXI - Of the eternal punishment of the wicked in hell, and of the various objections urged against it. - Chapter 9 - Of Hell, and the Nature of Eternal Punishments.
“It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THEIR FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” Similarly of the foot: “It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” So, too, of the eye: “It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”
HE DID NOT SHRINK FROM USING THE SAME WORDS THREE TIMES OVER IN ONE PASSAGE. And who is not terrified by this repetition, and by the threat of that punishment uttered so vehemently by the lips of the Lord Himself?"
" - Another King James Bible Believer
The NIV and the NWT follows the same pattern:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9:46&version=NIV
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/9/#v41009046
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/9/#v41009046
The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:
Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), C, L, W, Delta, Psi, pc, fam 1, k, sin, Coptic: sa, bo, fay, Arm
Here is the vast extant literature which has the text in it:
"... A, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, N, S, U, V, X, Y
Gamma, Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 13
Old Latin: a, aur, b, c, d, f, ff2, i, l, q, r1, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean
Gothic, (Ethiopic)
Also extant in 047?. 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257?, 0274 ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 80
Gamma, Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 13
Old Latin: a, aur, b, c, d, f, ff2, i, l, q, r1, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean
Gothic, (Ethiopic)
Also extant in 047?. 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257?, 0274 ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 80
Additionally:
"... 354-430 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 2 - St. Augustin: City of God, Christian Doctrine - City of God - Book XXI - Of the eternal punishment of the wicked in hell, and of the various objections urged against it. - Chapter 9 - Of Hell, and the Nature of Eternal Punishments.
“It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THEIR FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” Similarly of the foot: “It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” So, too, of the eye: “It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”
HE DID NOT SHRINK FROM USING THE SAME WORDS THREE TIMES OVER IN ONE PASSAGE. And who is not terrified by this repetition, and by the threat of that punishment uttered so vehemently by the lips of the Lord Himself?" ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
“It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THEIR FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” Similarly of the foot: “It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” So, too, of the eye: “It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”
HE DID NOT SHRINK FROM USING THE SAME WORDS THREE TIMES OVER IN ONE PASSAGE. And who is not terrified by this repetition, and by the threat of that punishment uttered so vehemently by the lips of the Lord Himself?" ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
Additionally:
"... Ruckman (2) p 122, states that A, D, K, X, Theta, Pi and the majority of Receptus Greek manuscripts support this passage. The verses were omitted in the manuscripts of Origen and Eusebius (i.e. Aleph and B). Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
No more so than you have proven yourself to be. I am not interested in what you want to promote, any more than you are interested in what I have spent my whole adult life studying. And that is your prerogative.
They call that stalemate when all you want is check mate.....sorry not playing that game.
Adventageous
Member
... but if it is error, isn't it better to know now?, and to go from this moment forward with something better, and true?
Adventageous
Member
#7.
The NIV and the NWT follow the same pattern:
Mark 11:26
Bible Gateway passage: Mark 11:26 - New International Version
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/11/#v41011026
The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:Bible Gateway passage: Mark 11:26 - New International Version
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/11/#v41011026
Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), L, S, W, Delta, Psi, pc, sin, pal, Coptic: sa, bo-pt, Arm-zoh, Eth-rom
Here is the vast extant literature which has the text in it:
"... A, C, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, N, U, V, X, Y
Gamma, Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 1,13
Old Latin: a, b, c, d, f, ff2, (i*), m, q, r1, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Gothic, Armenian-usc, Ethiopic-ppl
Also extant in 047, 055, 0133?, 0154, 0211, 0233?, 0257? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 82
Gamma, Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 1,13
Old Latin: a, b, c, d, f, ff2, (i*), m, q, r1, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Gothic, Armenian-usc, Ethiopic-ppl
Also extant in 047, 055, 0133?, 0154, 0211, 0233?, 0257? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 82
Additionally:
"... TAITIAN, Diatessaron (I 10:94)
... no indication in the ANPF of a pre-400 AD Father skipping from verses 25-27 with the disputed portion missing. ..." - Early church Father's and the Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 43
... no indication in the ANPF of a pre-400 AD Father skipping from verses 25-27 with the disputed portion missing. ..." - Early church Father's and the Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 43
Additionally:
"... It is also found in the Greek Diatessaron 160-175 A.D. It is also quoted by such early church writers as Cyprian and Augustine.
The whole verse is found in the Greek texts of Stephanus 1550, Beza 1598, Elzevir 1624, Scrivener 1894, the Majority texts of both Hodges & Farstad and that of Robinson-Pierpont and in the Greek Textus Receptus used to this day by the Orthodox churches all over the world. ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
The whole verse is found in the Greek texts of Stephanus 1550, Beza 1598, Elzevir 1624, Scrivener 1894, the Majority texts of both Hodges & Farstad and that of Robinson-Pierpont and in the Greek Textus Receptus used to this day by the Orthodox churches all over the world. ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
Additionally, the ECF:
Thomas Aquinas, Catena Aurea, citing Bede:
"... Bede: But we must observe that there is a difference in those who pray; he who has perfect faith, which worketh by love, can by his prayer or even his command remove spiritual mountains, as Paul did with Elymas the sorcerer. But let those who are unable to mount up to such a height of perfection pray that their sins should be forgiven them, and they shall obtain what they pray for, provided that they themselves first forgive those who have sinned against them.
If however they disdain to do this, not only shall they be unable to perform miracles by their prayers, but they shall not even be able to obtain pardon for their sins, which is implied in what follows; “But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.” ..." - St. Thomas Aquinas: Catena Aurea - Gospel of Mark - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
If however they disdain to do this, not only shall they be unable to perform miracles by their prayers, but they shall not even be able to obtain pardon for their sins, which is implied in what follows; “But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.” ..." - St. Thomas Aquinas: Catena Aurea - Gospel of Mark - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Augustine, Homily VII:
"... “If ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your trespasses. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”2359 It is the sentence of Truth: or if it be not Truth that speaks, gainsay it. ..." - Philip Schaff: NPNF1-07. St. Augustine: Homilies on the Gospel of John; Homilies on the First Epistle of John; Soliloquies - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Chrysostom, On the Priesthood; Ascetic Treatises; Select Homilies and Letters; Homilies on the Statutes, to those who had not attended the assembly:
"... “Forgive your debtors in order that your Father may also forgive your trespasses.” For He did not propose a small reward, but one which far exceeds the magnitude of the achievement. ..." - Philip Schaff: NPNF1-09. St. Chrysostom: On the Priesthood; Ascetic Treatises; Select Homilies and Letters; Homilies on the Statutes - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Do you actually believe any KJV-only people would accept ‘unbiased’ sources that ended up confirming the well known dnd many errors of the KJV?
The very idea that human being cannot study a thing for half a Millenia and understand better than at the beginning is laughable! You can’t be serious.
Worst of all as @Aunty Jane pointed out, is the obsolete TO part of the translation equation; people in 21st century America do not speak the King’s English of the 16th century. This makes the whole conversation a farce.
Adventageous
Member
There actually isn't any "'unbiased' "sources". I have seen all the evidence you could bring, and none of it stands up to scrutiny. I didn't start out with the KJB, but I ended up there, because of the evidence.
As for the so called "errors", seen them, and personally refuted them by the very sources that are publically available.
So, feel free to 'go on', and list whatever you think you have that I haven't already been through, and when I read (again) and respond, do not take offense that the position you hold is untenable.
BTW, I am not KJB "only". Most people don't even have a good definition of that epithet anyway, and frankly don't know what they are saying when they say it, and couldn't find an actual person to fit their definition (which is nothing but a straw man, or cartooney caricature). It's just a slander they use to try (and fail) and make those who hold to the word of God in English, the KJB, as 'wierd', 'cultish', etc. It's the other way round in fact.
Here is the 'modern version cult' mindset:
Gal 4:17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God: which though a short, is a very comprehensive summary of the articles of faith respecting the person, offices, and grace of Christ; as that he is a divine person, truly and properly God, the only begotten of the Father, of the same nature with him, and equal to him; that
Please don't impose upon me what "sister White is citing"
Ellen G. White was a prolific writer. Her first book, A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White, appeared in 1851. She would go on to write about 60 books total. The Whites travelled extensively, and Ellen wrote constantly to tell people what God was supposedly telling her. In 1855, James and Ellen G. White settled in Battle Creek, Michigan. In the next 55 years, Ellen G. White wrote nearly 10,000 pages of prophetic material, much of it published in the nine-volume Testimonies for the Church.
During a funeral service in Ohio in 1858, Ellen G. White had yet another vision, which she later detailed in her 219-page book Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1: The Great Controversy Between Christ and His Angels and Satan and His Angels. In this vision, Mrs. White saw a cosmic war being waged throughout the ages between Jesus and His angelic army and Satan and his. The Great Controversy, said Mrs. White, will be won as Christians help Jesus.
In May 1863, the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists was officially incorporated. Ellen G. White never considered herself the head of the new group, but her visions were definitely instrumental in its founding and early guidance. The Seventh-Day Adventists considered Mrs. White to be a true prophetess of God. Modern Adventists still lift her up as having the gift of prophecy. Seventh-Day Adventists interpret “the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” in Revelation 19:10 as a reference to Ellen G. White’s writings. The following statement was approved by the General Conference session in the Netherlands in June 1995: “We consider the biblical canon closed. However, we also believe, as did Ellen G. White’s contemporaries, that her writings carry divine authority, both for godly living and for doctrine. Therefore, we recommend . . . that as a church we seek the power of the Holy Spirit to apply to our lives more fully the inspired counsel contained in the writings of Ellen G. White” (cited in Seventh-day Adventist Church, accessed June 2, 2016).
Who was Ellen G. White? | GotQuestions.org
Who was Ellen G. White? Was Ellen G. White the founder of Seventh Day Adventism? Were Ellen G. White’s visions biblical?
www.gotquestions.org
I find this ironic, you are off the beaten path, a SDA trying to "correct" A JW, Aunty Jane.
- Status
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