Help police! KJV is taking away my freedom of religion in USA reading another Bible versions!

[Adventageous]

As for quoting Ellen White.....seriously?

I said, "For Seventh-day Adventist", if you would please actually read my responses. The citation from sister White, is not for you (WTS member).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

English please.....what century do you live in?

I didn’t realize differences like SINS and SINNETH were too much for you to handle. And yet you proceed to lecture me about the “sacred” Greek.

Hilarious!

 

[Wrangler]

Where’s this part of the text?

That part of the text is not from the original manuscripts but one of many errors in KJV, which I’m sure we discussed several times already.

 

[Adventageous]

literary borrowing

Have you considered Peter and Jude's epistles:

Michael The Archangel [X1] Appendix 1 The Epistles Of Peter & Jude Compared : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Michael The Archangel [X1] Appendix 1 The Epistles Of Peter & Jude ComparedYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCplWZcKcFd1tNbHYPS-5t9wINTERNET...

archive.org

Have you considered Isaiah 37 and 2 Kings 19?

Have you considered Psalm 14 and Psalm 53?

 

[Wrangler]

I didn’t realize differences like SINS and SINNETH were too much for you to handle.

And now you know.

 

[RLT63]

That's an old, humorous one-liner.

See, you can recognize humor when you try.

 

[Adventageous]

That part of the text is not from the original manuscripts but one of many errors in KJV, which I’m sure we discussed several times already.

You are in error:

Acts 8:37

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.​

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:

Acts 8:37 NIV;KJV - - Bible Gateway

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/8/#v44008037

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

P45, P74, Aleph (Sinaiticus), A (Alexandrinus), B (Vaticanus), C, H, L, P, psi, 049, 056, 0142; MAJORITY, Vulgate-pt, pesh, harc, sa, bo, Eth

Here is the extant literature which has the text in it:

"... E
Cursives: pc (27 are cited in our other Digest)
Old Latin: ar, c, e, l, (m*), ph, r, Vulgate-pt
Syriac: Harclean**
Coptic: MAe (Middle Aegyptian)
Armenian

The verse is cited by Irenaeus (178), Tertullian (220), and Cyprian (258). ... See KJVMT p 60 for further evidence. ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 113​

Additionally:

"... E, 4, 36, 88, 97, 103, 104, 242, 257, 307, 322, 323, 385, 429, 453, 464, 467, 629, 630, 913, 945, 1522, 1739, 1765, 1877, 1891, others. ...
Von Soden indicates: I b1 (522, 1758), I b2 (2298).
Lectionary: 59.
Old Latin: ar, c?, e, gig, h, l, m, ph, r;
Vulgate: Clementine am-2, tol, demid
Syriac: Harclean-with asterisk;
Coptic: Middle Egyptian
Armenian, Georgian.

Irenaeus, Lyons, Latin, 178.
Tertullian, N. Africa, Latin, 220.
Cyprian, Carthage, Latin, 258.
Ambrosiaster, Latin, 384.
Pacianus, Barcelona, Latin, 392.
Ambrose, Milan, Latin, 397.
Augustine, Hippo., Latin, 430.
"Praedestinatus", Latin, 434.
Bede, England, Latin, also cites Greek mss., 735.
Theophylact, (cor.), Bulgaria, 1077. ..." - When The KJV Departs From The "Majority" Text of Hodge & Farstad, cited by the corrupt NKJV, by Jack Moorman, page 60-61.​

Additionally:

​

"... IRENAEUS, Against Heresies (I 1:433) "the believing eunuch himself ... said, "I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God."

CYPRIAN, Treatises (I 5:545). "Then said Philip, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest"

PONTIUS, Life of Cyprian (I 5:268), "the eunuch is described as at once baptized by Philip because he believed with his whole heart." ...

... I have found no indication in the ANPF of a pre-400 AD Father quoting the above general passage with the disputed words omitted. There were no references to verses 36 and 38 in the indices. ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 52​

Additionally:

"... Acts 8:37 is in the Byzantine Greek text used by the Orthodox Greek Churches all over the world today. Here is the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese

Greek New Testament

ἰδοὺ ὕδωρ· τί κωλύει με βαπτισθῆναι;εἶπε δὲ ὁ Φίλιππος· εἰ πιστεύεις ἐξ ὅλης τῆς καρδίας, ἔξεστιν. ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ εἶπε· πιστεύω τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ εἶναι τὸν ᾿Ιησοῦν Χριστόν.

It is also in the Modern Greek Bible and in the Modern Hebrew Bible.

The whole verse is also found in Old Latin manuscripts from the textline that predates any Greek manuscripts, including the Old Latin texts of ar, c, dem, e, gig, h, l, m, ph, r, t, w. Even the notes in critical text editions tell us that this verse existed in the Old Latin copies, the Coptic Middle Egyptian version, the Ethiopic, Georgian, and Slavonic, Lamsa's 1933 translation of the Syriac Pes.hitta and Armenian early Bible versions. It is also found in the Vulgate Clementine.

Many church fathers who lived before anything we have in the way of Greek copies directly quote this verse, including Irenaeus 178 A.D., Tertullian 220, Cyprian died in 258, as well as Ambrosiaster 384, Ambrose 397, Augustine 430, and Venerable Bede of England in 735.

For example, Cyprian (200-258 A.D.) supports the inclusion of verse 36-37 Textus Receptus when he says, "In the Acts of the Apostles Treatise 12:3: Lo, here is water; what is there which hinders me from being baptized? Then said Phillip, If thou believest with all thine heart thou mayest." (The Treatises of Cyprian)

Irenaeus (115-202 AD), Against Heresies 3.12: "Philip declared that this was Jesus, and that the Scripture was fulfilled in Him; as did also the believing eunuch himself: and, immediately requesting to be baptized, he said, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God."

Cyprian (200-258 AD), "For although in the Acts of the Apostles the eunuch is described as at once baptized by Philip, because "he believed with his whole heart," this is not a fair parallel. For he was a Jew, and as he came from the temple of the Lord he was reading the prophet Isaiah," (Cyprian)-Cyprian THE LIFE AND PASSION OF CYPRIAN, BISHOP AND MARTYR 200 - 258 paragraph 3

Augustine (354-430 AD), Sermons on Selected Lessons of the New Testament - Sermon 49: "The eunuch believed on Christ, and said when they came unto a certain water, See water, who doth hinder me to be baptized? Philip said to him, Dost thou believe on Jesus Christ? He answered, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Immediately he went down with him into the water." ..." - Another King James Bible Believer​

Additionally:

"... Berry's Greek text supports this passage, indicating the familiarity of the 16th century editors with the ancient evidence in support of the verse. See Part 3 of this work for further discussion. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses​

 

[Michiah-Imla]

That part of the text is not from the original manuscripts but one of many errors in KJV

A lie that you believe.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yeah, proven bunk by a Catholic lawyer, years ago.

Ramik report:

SDA Plagiarism Charges Proved False Ramik Report : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

SDA Plagiarism Charges Proved False Ramik ReportYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCplWZcKcFd1tNbHYPS-5t9wINTERNET ARCHIVE: ...

archive.org

So you need lawyers to prove that Ellen White is not a plagiarist? Even if she is not convicted of such a charge, what makes you believe that Ellen White was chosen by God to start the SDA believers on the path to God? What makes Ellen White more correct than say, Joseph Smith? He claimed to be a prophet too.

The one thing JW's do not claim is that we have prophets who are sent by God to lead people to salvation.
Jesus did not select 12 apostles because one man/woman, especially those who are as flawed by sin as anyone else, cannot dictate what Jesus taught. The body of Christ must be a body with several members who all fulfill the role that God assigned to them, as it was in the first century.
The governing body in Jerusalem was made up of the apostles and older men with spiritual qualifications. These were the ones who decided on the issue of circumcision....remember? When the apostles spoke, they echoed the words of their Master in unity, not in division.

Proverbs 11:14.... NET
"When there is no guidance a nation falls, but there is success in the abundance of counselors."

No one person should ever lead people in worship, as we can see where that leads in the multitude of sects in Christendom. They are usually followers of one man (or occasionally one woman) who lead Christ's disciples off after themselves, and what they say God has told them to do and to teach. Since they all teach different things.....who is to say, who is correct? We choose what appeals to our hearts without interference from God. He allows us all to be caught in the act of being our true selves. We can't fool him.

Jesus has allowed us in these last days to make our choices, and he will not reveal whether we are right or wrong until his judgment is made.
Only then will we know for sure if we were chosen by God, rather than us choosing him through someone other than Jesus Christ.

You have made up your mind and that is fine with me.....Jesus will tell us all whether we have listened to his "Faithful and wise servant" whom the Master will reward when he returns to find him fulfilling his assignment. (Matt 24:45-46)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Dear KJV only!!

Are you God? No!

Do you have an authority over me?? No!

Are you forcing me read KJV only! That's called legalism!!

Do I have Freedom of Religion in USA read other Bible versions! Yes! Case closed!

Lol. What…?
I prefer to read the nearly inspired version.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I didn’t realize differences like SINS and SINNETH were too much for you to handle. And yet you proceed to lecture me about the “sacred” Greek.

Hilarious!

But you will accept words erroneously translated into archaic English but never think to actually research the original language words that the writers understood and so did their audience. And you think I'm hilarious....?

 

[Wrangler]

You are in error:

Nope.

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:

Just because more than one translation is based on inaccurate manuscripts does not mean the KJV is correct.

 

[Adventageous]

So you need lawyers to prove that Ellen White is not a plagiarist?

No, "I" don't. The GC felt that it would be best to use an outside, un-biased source, to demonstrate if there was any case whatsoever. They hired a Catholic lawyer, and he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is "simply no case". Therefore, it is legally proven, not merely conjecturally stated. It is demonstrated by an expert in the field of literary work, and not simply a statement from a denomination that might have a bias.

 

[Adventageous]

Ellen White was chosen by God to start the SDA believers on the path to God?

Do you really want to know? I will spend the time with you, but it cannot be like the last thread that was closed by interlopers.

Start a new thread on the subject, and I will show you from scripture, and show you the difference between her and Joseph Smith or C.T. Russell, etc.

 

[Adventageous]

No one person should ever lead people in worship

Ellen G White is not our leader, Jesus Christ is.

Eph_1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Eph_5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Col_1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No, "I" don't. The GC felt that it would be best to use an outside, un-biased source, to demonstrate if there was any case whatsoever. They hired a Catholic lawyer, and he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is "simply no case". Therefore, it is legally proven, not merely conjecturally stated. It is demonstrated by an expert in the field of literary work, and not simply a statement from a denomination that might have a bias.

Hmmm, yes...a Catholic judge is to be trusted above all others in the matter of interpreting scriptural correctness....? Good grief!

The last time I looked, the Catholic church still holds onto what the Protestants rejected....we on the fringe, reject what the Protestants still believe, so we can let Jesus sort out the rabble, and just continue doing and being what we are from his perspective....it might be a whole lot different than our own. (1 Cor 10:12)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

words erroneously translated into archaic English

How “archaic” is the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?

The English in the KJV is modern correct English. What we have now is gutter English.

I love how intellectuals don’t see how foolish they become in over-learning things…

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you really want to know? I will spend the time with you, but it cannot be like the last thread that was closed by interlopers.

Start a new thread on the subject, and I will show you from scripture, and show you the difference between her and Joseph Smith or C.T. Russell, etc.

No thanks, not just to be bombarded by reams of what you think is correct.....you just hang on to whatever it is that you believe is the truth for whatever reason you have, and I will do the same....Jesus will correct those who need correction. I can let him....can you? (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[Aunty Jane]

How “archaic” is the Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek?

I love how intellectuals don’t see how foolish they become in over-learning things…

If actual word studies that reveal false translation into English, are a problem for the KJV Only Club, then "under-learning" might also be an ignorance of choice for those who just don't want to know....but that is your choice.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Dear KJV only!!

Are you God? No!

Do you have an authority over me?? No!

Are you forcing me read KJV only! That's called legalism!!

Do I have Freedom of Religion in USA read other Bible versions! Yes! Case closed!

Grace, peace, and love to you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
May God’s grace and good ways shine upon you abundantly.

Anyways, to get down to business in answering your reply:

Well, I am in a different unique class. I believe the KJB (King James Bible) to be the perfect inerrant Word of God but I also believe it is a must or a necessity to also read Modern Translations just as I would use a dictionary in reading the Bible. While I believe the KJB is perfect in the 1600’s English, it is an archaic form of English that we do have to study so as to find out what those words are saying. There are many difficult and archaic words in the KJB and a Modern Bible or a dictionary can help clarify what the KJB is saying.

In other words, I am not “KJV Only,” but I am “Core KJB,” whereby I make the King James Bible my core foundational text and yet I also believe we must use the Modern Translations to help us understand the archaic verses or passages at times. So I disagree with my KJV Only brethren that say that the KJB is easy to understand (even with a little study). There are many difficult archaic words of which affect the meaning of various verses and passages in the King James Bible. Yet, I also know there are false doctrines taught in Modern Translations and so they cannot be my final word of authority, either (Check out my list of changed doctrines between the KJB vs. Modern Bibles in post #62 of this thread). So if we swing one way (KJV Only) it can lead us to misunderstand the text at times unless you are an expert on archaic words in 1600’s English, and then there is swinging in the opposite direction of saying there is nothing wrong with Modern Translations when this is simply not the case, either.

I have a brother in Christ who is not KJV Only or Core KJB and we do not make it a dividing issue. Yes, I know there are some KJV Only folk who will make this topic a dividing issue. There are some KJV Only folk who can be downright hateful. Then again, this is also the case for believers even in the Original Onlyist camp, too. I have been called some really bad stuff for my defending the KJB as being the perfect Word of God and I did not attack their character or who they are as a person. I believe a person can be saved by using a Modern Translation but a more effective Bible will lead one to have a more effective faith that is lived out and to have a deeper and more developed Sanctification by the Spirit. I cannot force you to see the KJB is the inerrant Word of God. Only God will talk to your heart about it if you have any regard for the Word of God and for His words to be settled rather than having some kind of phantom bible that really does not exist with tainted bibles and or tainted manuscripts along with the serpent hissing in the background getting you to doubt certain portions of Scripture with the footnotes, etcetera.

I have come up with 101 Reasons for the King James Bible being the Inerrant Word of God, and I am currently in the process of writing short detailed explanations for most of these reasons. I hope to have it up on this forum in the upcoming near future (Lord willing). I will be like a lawyer presenting facts. I will let you look at the evidence and for you to decide based on the evidence. I would not force you to believe in the KJB (Even though I believe it is the inerrant perfect Word of God for our day); But it would be wise to be open to the evidence for the King James Bible (Because I see it as life changing to our faith in God’s Word).

Blessings be unto you and your family in the LORD.

With loving kindness to you in Christ Jesus.

Sincerely,

A Bible Highlighter.