Do Not Assume That I Have Come to Bring Peace

[Keraz]

It is natural and quite right that Christians should engage in debate over what the Bible says about the last days and the Return of Jesus. After all, the Bible has a lot to tell us about these issues. Regardless of one’s worldview or faith, the Bible is an ancient and vitally important book that has shaped the course of history and will continue to in the future.

But how can it be that there are so many differing opinions as to what will take place? We do, [mostly] all agree on the most essential point – that is, Jesus will physically Return to earth. It is in the timing of His Return and who exactly is the nation, the people that He Returns to, that there is disagreement.

Jesus said; Do not assume that I have come to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34-36
Luke 12:49 I have come to set fire to the earth and how I wish it were already kindled.

Jesus makes statements that contradict today’s picture of Him as a gentle pacifist and seems to differ from what the angels announced at His birth, but it isn’t; they told of the beginning of this age of enmity between God and humanity and the eventual final reconciliation. Matthew 3:12, Psalms 110:5-6

Until that happens, we are still in that age of enmity and God must impose consequences on both our good and evil choices. We have free will: mostly so that we can freely love Him, because only freely chosen love is true love. Thus, if God only rewarded the good but left the evil unpunished, He would act arbitrarily, against His just nature and our free choices would be meaningless.



From Isaiah 63:1-6...I resolved on a Day of vengeance.... we have a graphic description of the Lord carrying out His just retribution against His enemies. The reason for their destruction is foretold in Romans 9:22-23, Hebrews 10:26-27
Many other passages describe this soon to happen, terrible Day of the Lords wrath. This cannot be at the same time as the Return of Jesus, as the Day of the Lord is a worldwide event, whereas at His Return, Jesus only disposes of the beast, the False Prophet and the armies attacking Jerusalem, by the Sword of His Word and NOT by fire.

The fact that the Lord’s garments become blood stained during His Day of vengeance, then - at His Return, it states that He “is robed in a garment dyed in blood”, this proves that the Day of the Lord is some time before His Return.

Isaiah 66:15-16 See; the Lord is coming in fire, His chariots like a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His furious anger. The Lord will judge with fire – by His sword He will test all mankind. Many will be slain by Him. Plus the over 70 other Prophesies which vividly describe this forthcoming worldwide disaster.

Many people today, combine prophecies like Isaiah 63 & 66, the wrath of the Lord, with the Return of Jesus. To do this requires that you allegorize either these verses or the accurate descriptions of His Return in Revelation 19, Zechariah 14:3-5 and Matthew 24:30

Psalm 50:1-6 The Lord God has spoken and summoned the world. He shines from Zion, in His glory. He will not remain silent, a consuming fire goes before Him and storms rage around Him. The heavens and the earth look on at the judging of His people. Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those, who by sacrifice have made a covenant with Me. The heavens will proclaim His justice, for God Himself is judge. Ezekiel 34:11-16

The Lord’s loyal servants are gathered into Zion, all the Promised Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38 Then, it isn’t until later, when the Great Tribulation is over, that Jesus Returns, destroys His attackers, gathers all His people and reigns for 1000 years.

Therefore, the next event on the prophetic calendar is the Lords Day of vengeance and wrath by fire.

 

[Adventageous]

Do Not Assume That I Have Come to Bring Peace​

Antichrist comes in (already is here) by "Peace" (Luk. 2:14; Nah. 1:15 Christ the true gospel, but Antichrist by a false Gospel):

Dan_11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Dan_11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

Jer_6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Jer_8:11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Eze_13:16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

1Th_5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

[rockytopva]

This thread moved due to the discussions of the timing and Christ’s return to earth.

 

[rockytopva]

It is natural and quite right that Christians should engage in debate over what the Bible says about the last days and the Return of Jesus. After all, the Bible has a lot to tell us about these issues. Regardless of one’s worldview or faith, the Bible is an ancient and vitally important book that has shaped the course of history and will continue to in the future.

But how can it be that there are so many differing opinions as to what will take place? We do, [mostly] all agree on the most essential point – that is, Jesus will physically Return to earth. It is in the timing of His Return and who exactly is the nation, the people that He Returns to, that there is disagreement.

Jesus said; Do not assume that I have come to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34-36
Luke 12:49 I have come to set fire to the earth and how I wish it were already kindled.

Jesus makes statements that contradict today’s picture of Him as a gentle pacifist and seems to differ from what the angels announced at His birth, but it isn’t; they told of the beginning of this age of enmity between God and humanity and the eventual final reconciliation. Matthew 3:12, Psalms 110:5-6

Until that happens, we are still in that age of enmity and God must impose consequences on both our good and evil choices. We have free will: mostly so that we can freely love Him, because only freely chosen love is true love. Thus, if God only rewarded the good but left the evil unpunished, He would act arbitrarily, against His just nature and our free choices would be meaningless.



From Isaiah 63:1-6...I resolved on a Day of vengeance.... we have a graphic description of the Lord carrying out His just retribution against His enemies. The reason for their destruction is foretold in Romans 9:22-23, Hebrews 10:26-27
Many other passages describe this soon to happen, terrible Day of the Lords wrath. This cannot be at the same time as the Return of Jesus, as the Day of the Lord is a worldwide event, whereas at His Return, Jesus only disposes of the beast, the False Prophet and the armies attacking Jerusalem, by the Sword of His Word and NOT by fire.

The fact that the Lord’s garments become blood stained during His Day of vengeance, then - at His Return, it states that He “is robed in a garment dyed in blood”, this proves that the Day of the Lord is some time before His Return.

Isaiah 66:15-16 See; the Lord is coming in fire, His chariots like a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His furious anger. The Lord will judge with fire – by His sword He will test all mankind. Many will be slain by Him. Plus the over 70 other Prophesies which vividly describe this forthcoming worldwide disaster.

Many people today, combine prophecies like Isaiah 63 & 66, the wrath of the Lord, with the Return of Jesus. To do this requires that you allegorize either these verses or the accurate descriptions of His Return in Revelation 19, Zechariah 14:3-5 and Matthew 24:30

Psalm 50:1-6 The Lord God has spoken and summoned the world. He shines from Zion, in His glory. He will not remain silent, a consuming fire goes before Him and storms rage around Him. The heavens and the earth look on at the judging of His people. Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those, who by sacrifice have made a covenant with Me. The heavens will proclaim His justice, for God Himself is judge. Ezekiel 34:11-16

The Lord’s loyal servants are gathered into Zion, all the Promised Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38 Then, it isn’t until later, when the Great Tribulation is over, that Jesus Returns, destroys His attackers, gathers all His people and reigns for 1000 years.

Therefore, the next event on the prophetic calendar is the Lords Day of vengeance and wrath by fire.

I don’t agree with your eschatology.

 

[rockytopva]

Some guy, for all I know could be a total quack, is going to come up with date predictions and prophecies according to his interpretation of Revelation. And now I am considered evil for not going along with him?

 

[Keraz]

I don’t agree with your eschatology.

My eschatology is what the Bible prophets wrote.
I do provide scriptural proofs of what I post. You don't agree with them?

Very soon now, Jesus will send His fiery wrath to change the world and commence the end times, as Prophesied. We Christians should not be in the dark about God's plans for our future.

 

[rockytopva]

My eschatology is what the Bible prophets wrote.
I do provide scriptural proofs of what I post. You don't agree with that?

Very soon now, Jesus will send His fiery wrath to change the world and commence the end times, as Prophesied. We Christians should not be in the dark about God's plans for our future.

I am sure we have many Seven Day Adventists and Mormons thinking the same thing... But... Will we ever get around the ego?

 

[Keraz]

I am sure we have many Seven Day Adventists and Mormons thinking the same thing... But... Will we ever get around the ego?

Who has 'ego'? I give all power to the Lord and what He gave His Prophets to inform us about His plans for our future.
I boldly state their Words. Why be a wimp when quoting scripture?

 

[rockytopva]

Who has 'ego'? I give all power to the Lord and what He gave His Prophets to inform us about His plans for our future.
I boldly state their Words. Why be a wimp when quoting scripture?

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, - Colossians 2

There are interpretations that are the results of the vainly puffed up mind.

 

[Keraz]

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, - Colossians 2

There are interpretations that are the results of the vainly puffed up mind.

I have had this type of accusation before. It is made by those whose beliefs are challenged and they have no scripture to refute me, so resort to accusing me of self promotion.

 

[Wrangler]

Very soon now, Jesus will send His fiery wrath to change the world and commence the end times, as Prophesied.

When, specifically is very soon? I believe we are already in the end times. The Bible talks about signs, not a singular event.

Numerous things have to fall in place that a blind man could see. WWII lead to the prophetic rise of the nation of Israel and a New World Order, Globalism. At this juncture, there is a great effort to have global digital currency, a vaccine passport and the active tearing down of history, imposing revisionist history and the elimination of national borders via so-called global warming. The assault on freedom, specifically freedom of speech, is greater than in my >half century.

 

[rockytopva]

I have had this type of accusation before. It is made by those whose beliefs are challenged and they have no scripture to refute me, so resort to accusing me of self promotion.

Eschatology... There is a serious issue here on common ground. As I read through the posts it is very obvious that we all have a different perspective of reality concerning the end times. My beliefs are that this is because that scripture is written metaphorically in parables in which you can get thousands of different sermons as people bring things out of their treasures... Both new and old.

51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence. - Matthew 13

But... To say that people are in error for not agreeing with an individuals specific research on a certain passage is more times than not... self promotion.

 

[Wrangler]

Eschatology...

I generally stay away from it. It seems mostly speculation.

 

[rockytopva]

I generally stay away from it. It seems mostly speculation.

Nice reply... Thanks. I am learning to do the same thing. Not that I dislike Eschatology... It is that it generates more hard feelings than doing any good.

 

[Wrangler]

Nice reply... Thanks. I am learning to do the same thing. Not that I dislike Eschatology... It is that it generates more hard feelings than doing any good.

I believe the hard feelings flow from a false sense of confidence in the conjecture. Jesus said that not even he knew the hour. We should not claim to know what Jesus did not.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the hard feelings flow from a false sense of confidence in the conjecture.

God bless! Thanks! I take the time to sit down and worry over hurt feelings before I post here.

 

[rockytopva]

If I expected everyone here to see prophecy in the same light as I do I would be the only one posting here!

 

[Keraz]

When, specifically is very soon?

When Iran and their proxies attempt to do what they have sworn to do. That is: to wipe Israel off the map.
THEN; the Lord will arise and destroy them all. Isaiah 28:21, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 83, 2 Peter 3:7, +

I am confident that what the Bible Prophets say will happen - WILL HAPPEN.

 

[Adam]

If Jesus were to return in the flesh, it would be the Christians who would kill him.

Acts 7:52
Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become;

Mark 6:4
But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Luke 11:47
Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.

Shows the dangers of having a certain expectation for what the Messiah should be and believing yourself wise and having all the answers. If you are ever tempted to persecute a holy man, remember this.

 

[Jay Ross]

I don’t agree with your eschatology.

Keraz's eschatology is based on the implied context of the translations, and not on the context of the source language texts. I have pointed this out to Keraz many times over the years that I have been posting but his reply is that God would not let the man generated translations have any contextual errors in them. It is on this bases that he believes that his understanding is correct. Sadly, he then presents his own contextual paraphrases of the English translations which further increases the errors of his understanding of the End Times.

The translators, having adopted the Jewish understanding that the Promised Land was a forever promise, have continued the Jewish understanding error and have wrongly turned the Hebrew word, "'owlaam" from a finite meaning where the end point of the possession of the "Promised Land," was beyond their ability to comprehend when it would end, but have turned the possession of the "Promised Land" into an infinite possession, even though God warned the Nation of Israel, that if they continued their idolatrous worship of idols an every high place in the possessed land that God had given them, that He would scattered them throughout all of the earth so that they no longer had or could claim possession of the "Promised land."

This error/desire to hold the possession of the Promised Land as a "forever" possession has clouded our understanding of God's Prophetic prophecies concerning His gathering of the Israelites to Himself and that He would plant them in the fertile soil of Israel/Christ and teach them on the mountain/religion of Israel/Christ and renew the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant, when they repented of this long term iniquity and turned once more towards God. In the process of gathering the Israelites to Himself, God also said that we would sprinkle the Israelites with water, a purification practice associated with the anointing of a priest, where they live beside the rivers in the valleys and ravines scattered all over the world.

Keraz's error in his understanding has come about by his acceptance/belief that the translation contains no errors in the contextual understanding of the source documents, and since he holds this point of view, he cannot be possibly wrong.

It is very hard to convince anyone whose belief is that their POV is beyond questioning.

Shalom