I believe we each have to answer that question ourselves. I know from the warnings of Christ the judgment of God is something to be avoided. But there are verses in Scripture that indicate the pain and suffering from God's judgment is eternal, and there are other verses in Scripture that seem to indicate that the second DEATH is what is eternal. I don't believe Scripture teaches the 'dead' will be eternally judged more than once, and that only after the seventh angel begins to sound that time for this earth shall be no more.
Is knowing what death is a comfort?
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I believe we each have to answer that question ourselves. I know from the warnings of Christ the judgment of God is something to be avoided. But there are verses in Scripture that indicate the pain and suffering from God's judgment is eternal, and there are other verses in Scripture that seem to indicate that the second DEATH is what is eternal. I don't believe Scripture teaches the 'dead' will be eternally judged more than once, and that only after the seventh angel begins to sound that time for this earth shall be no more.
The dead will be physically resurrected from the grave they were sewn in. The dead will know nothing after their body dies, the next conscience moment for the dead will be the GWTJ when the dead will be resurrected to give account to God by what is written in the books and the book of life. The dead will not be recorded in the book of life, and will be cast into the lake of fire. John here writes to be cast into the lake of fire is the second death. John makes no mention here of eternal suffering. Yet in other verses it seems the suffering from God's judgment is indeed eternal. Decide for yourself, through your own study. As for me, I am satisfied with understanding the need to avoid God's judgment and the lake of fire by remaining faithful unto death.
Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Taken
Well-Known Member
First have to get on same page.
Place of THE Dead.
DEAD WHAT? Dead Body’s? Dead Souls?
And What does DEAD Body Mean?
And What does DEAD Soul Mean?
And....Strongs was first published in 1890.
And:
Meanings thereof according to Hebrews and according to Greeks and English speaking Gentiles?
Sheol a Hebrew Term...
Hades a Greek Term...
Hell an English Term...
Valley of Hinnom ... only in OT, Place, purpose, use?
Gehenna, Greek translation of Hinnom.
Can you identify your meanings?
I will agree or disagree with my own meanings.
Then we can discuss any differences and WHY.
?
A dead body is a dead soul. Only the dead, or those who die without Christ, therefore without His life-giving Spirit are both in silence physically in the grave, also spiritually in heaven. The man who physically dies IN CHRIST is no longer a living soul physically. But is still alive spiritually as his spirit returns to God in heaven alive through Christ's eternal Spirit. That spirit without the body is also called a living (spirit) soul. I bracketed (spirit) because the spirit in man gives him life. When a believer's spirit with life ascends to heaven after physical death, in heaven the spirit is also defined a soul. The spirit in us gives us the breath of life and being a living soul means there is life. Whether physical or spiritual, possessing life in any form is to be a living soul.
I posted here when I first came, I think....
I was SEEKING the comfort of death then, having started withdrawal from psychological meds.
Yesterday, and I rarely share what God speaks to me personally, my God spoke to me after asking ,why I was so long here when others were passing and why I couldn't.
He said unto me," You are the only hedge around your family, and through you I will work".
My greatest heart's desire is my loved ones KNOW JESUS PERSONALLY, not with just head knowledge.
I was SEEKING the comfort of death then, having started withdrawal from psychological meds.
Yesterday, and I rarely share what God speaks to me personally, my God spoke to me after asking ,why I was so long here when others were passing and why I couldn't.
He said unto me," You are the only hedge around your family, and through you I will work".
My greatest heart's desire is my loved ones KNOW JESUS PERSONALLY, not with just head knowledge.
Amen. Just posted:
'Confusion' Of What Death Is...solved for comfort
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified...
Great! We agree on Sheol and Hades, as being the abode of the dead. It might be notable to add that Sheol is translated hell 31x, grave 31x, and pit 3x in the King James version of the Bible, and Hades hell in all of it's occurrances. So all those are the same thing, with grave accurately describing it.
Yes sir, you are exactly correct, gehenna is different. So the translators rendered that word hell as well, and since we agree that it is different, what actually is gehenna, and who did Jesus use that term with, and how would they understand it RW?
Sure, the Bible does in fact define what death is sir. As you know God forewarned Adam and Eve that if they ate of the fruit of one tree in the garden they would die.
(Genesis 2:16, 17) . . .God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”
God defined that to Adam when he sinned:
(Genesis 3:19) 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Later on, He further defined it:
(Psalm 146:4) 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6) . . .For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
It might be noted as well, that both animals and humans suffer the same death:
(Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) . . .there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Place of The Dead?
On Earth...
Living men, Living souls IN men...
Separated from God...ARE Spiritually Dead.
Remember?
Eph 2:
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ...
Living body’s and Living souls IN a body...NOT with God/Christ...are Spiritually account DEAD...meaning WITHOUT The Lord God.
A dead body meaning...
Spiritually...without God.
Physically...without BLOOD flowing Life.
A Dead soul meaning...
Without God.
@Robert Gwin
There is no superiority, for sons of men are as the beasts concerning our flesh. The flesh of every breathing creature is destined to die. But the spirit of man goes up or it is as in death goes downward to the earth. The spirit gives life, when the sons of men die no one but God knows whether the spirit that returns to Him at death goes up to heaven with life or returns to Him in the same way the spirit of beasts do when they die, and their life is no more.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 3:16-21 (KJV) And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there. I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Jesus assured that it is from their graves that he will bring out the dead:
John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
That means that no dead person is still alive in some form, in some other place apart from where they were buried.
John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
That means that no dead person is still alive in some form, in some other place apart from where they were buried.
The physical body will be resurrected to life in the hour coming. Mankind shall all be physically resurrected to physical life, or to resurrection of damnation. Christ knowing, every human body is destined to die, just as Lazarus was physically dead. Martha, the sister of Lazarus, like you believed that her brother, now dead, would not live again until the last day. Listen carefully to what Christ says:
John 11:21-27 (KJV) Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
If there is not life after our physical body dies, Christ would not promise that whosoever lives and believes in Him SHALL NEVER DIE. There is no life in our physical body after death, as the death of Lazarus clearly shows. But Lazarus was raised to life again to prove Christ has power over death. The spirit that gave Lazarus' body physical life returned to him at the Lord's command. Christ was not commanding a corpse to live again; He was commanding the spirit of Lazarus to return life (spirit) to his body. And Lazarus came out of the tomb alive after physical death. Without a spirit in man there is no life, for it is the spirit that gives life to our flesh. Lazarus was raised to life again because death of his body die not mean death of his spirit. Man is made of body + spirit, and together they are a living soul. But when we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit from Christ, the spiritual life we receive from Him SHALL NEVER DIE.
John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
When humans die their body returns to dust, while the spirit, giving life to the body, returns to God who gave it. Knowing this Christ prays to the Father, thanking Him for hearing His prayer that the people watching would know that the power He has over death comes from the Father, and to prove He was sent by the Father, the spirit returned to Lazarus, and all who witnessed this miracle saw the glory of God, and would believe in Him.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
John 11:38-44 (KJV) Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Before Christ left this earth, He promised to send His Spirit to be within whosoever believes in Him. He promises that His Spirit will never leave us, nor will He ever forsake us. The spiritual life believers receive through the Spirit in us SHALL NEVER DIE. The spirit that gives life to our physical body is indwelt by the Spirit from Christ, therefore the spirit in man, through the Holy Spirit SHALL NEVER DIE. The spirit of believers returns to the Father in heaven a spirit soul. Because where there is life there is a living soul, whether physical or spiritual.
John 14:16-17 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Gen 2:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
The context is....
Adam was Created (formed) and Made (Given Life From God) outside the Garden.
Adam was put IN the garden.
God was WITH Adam IN the Garden.
God was feeding Adam GOOD.
God taught for Adam to remain eating the GOOD.
God warned Eating other than GOOD... is Eating EVIL.
God warned Eating EVIL has a consequence.
God warned the consequence for Eating Evil IS Death.
Adam ignored Gods warning...
* Adam Listened to the Created woman’s WORD...
* The Created woman’s WORD said the fruit was GOOD.
Adam Already KNEW what God Established was GOOD.
* Yet Adam directed his attention, his ear, extended his hand, took, tasted, ate....that Which was NOT GOOD....
* Adam’s Living Body’s Sin was Forgiven....And Covered by God Himself.
* But what about Adam’s Living Soul’s Sin?
* Forgiven ? No.
* Because .... even on Adam’s way of being escorted Out of the Garden, Adam failed to reach out and Take from the Tree of Life, and Eat, what God had Set in Adam’s midst...Given, Encouraged by God FOR Adam To Eat....Adam Chose to not reach out and Take Gods Offering.
Consequence? God effected His Separation From Adam and Adam From God.
Nothing different today.
Blood life shall die...God Requires all body’s must die.....
(Gen 9: 5-6)
Body’s that die are covered.
What about the Living souls God blew into a mans Body?
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Does Gods Life EVER DIE?
Taken
Well-Known Member
What did Jesus mean here sir?: (Matthew 21:43) . . .I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.
Wouldn't you say that new nation of Jews are these?: (Galatians 6:16) . . .As for all those who walk orderly by this rule of conduct, peace and mercy be upon them, yes, upon the Israel of God.
If you think not, then what do those verses mean RW?
I think you were addressing this to me instead of yourself Taken, I agree sir, without anything. Their hope lies in the resurrection.
The spirit of course is the breath of life. It is now in God's hands for any future life of those who have died. We can go on forever Rw, and you can either believe God who in no indirect terms stated very clearly that Adam would die if they chose to violate His rule. That happened! I believe it! I do not side with satan who stated just as clearly to Eve that she would not die. That to me is the lie sir, because the fact is, they did die.
Out of curiosity, why is it you choose to believe that something goes on? If we do not die, what is the point of Jesus' being sent to die? I just cant understand the logic.
Similar threads
