Darkness and light (poll)

[Lizbeth]

But a change in direction is not the same as the perfection that is in Christ.

No, and I'm not saying it is.

 

[Lizbeth]

The lack of boasting is by power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked. If we walk as mere humans...there is nothing to boast of.

Of course if we compare ourselves with the wicked...then we might boast. But such a comparison doesn't take into consideration that God expects more from us who have tasted His grace.

And why do you say "us" in regards to being seen as righteous by God? It is God who judges...not merely people who read the bible. Why don't more bible readers see themselves as blind and naked? Because it is a human tendency to see ourselves in the best possible light. it takes the Spirit to be convicted of our true condition. Seeing ourselves as in good shape with God doesn't take any discernment. It is assumed.

Eternal reality will one day dawn...and all that is hidden will be revealed. Then, what has been covered over will be made manifest. God will judge in His righteousness according to eternal light and truth. There are no favourites with God.

The best response as to whether we are poor naked and blind is...as the disciples of Jesus would say..."Lord is it I? "...then it is to wait on the Lord for HIS answer...not look to self-medicate by reading uplifting verses.

The natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit....they are foolishness to him. We need to ears to hear what the spirit is saying.

 

[amadeus]

Okay, so I’m not upset. That’s first. You were the one who expressed great alarm.
But being vague and milquetoasty and socially polished and dancing around when people have poison in their mouths is not the way to go.

Is it possible or even likely that some people do not recognize their own poison as being poison? When is the time to speak or to remain silent?

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is it possible or even likely that some people do not recognize their own poison as being poison? When is the time to speak or to remain silent?

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7

I’m not sure. I sometimes see what I think is someone ready to bear something. Other times, I believe I can see they are not. But yes, they don’t see the poison as poison. Until they do.

 

[amadeus]

I’m not sure. I sometimes see what I think is someone ready to bear something. Other times, I believe I can see they are not. But yes, they don’t see the poison as poison. Until they do.

What is poison or death to one person may be Life to another... depending likely on where the person is or is not with God.

If a person's is impaired, would it not be better for him to remain silent until he is seeing clearly. When is that?

Consider the person who speaks really unknown words in the Church without having also an interpreter. Who was Jesus' interpreter? Who is our interpreter... or who should our interpreter be?

There is a time to kill, but at an improper time and place may it not be murder? Who gives the order or direction?

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.' I Sam 15:2-3

The Lord of hosts gave the order and King Saul got into a lot of trouble for his disobedience. Are we hearing our orders and obeying them? Do we recognize the Lord's voice from all of the voices?

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice" John 10:5

How well are we hearing and seeing and obeying?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ears to hear, sister.

Yes, well, we hope for what we do not yet have. We don’t insist we already have it, at least not if we are wise enough to heed and take to heart all of the warnings.

 

[ScottA]

I'm hoping to make the imputation doctrine more clear for people so they can choose the road they wish to go down. One of the weanings (shedding of iniquity) of the outer man is to let go of the reformation doctrines that continue to divide the Body of Christ.

God doesn't see us differently than we really are. He sees into the future...but that doesn't change our current condition.

If a person kills someone, and serves 30 years in prison for that act...that changes a person. If we say...well, you will be released in 30 years anyway so then you may as well go free right now...then we circumvent any growth in understanding based on experience.

Does God impute His own righteousness on others? Never! No...He either finds us as righteous or not (as human, not divine beings).

The righteousness of God is an anointed covering that empowers us to walk in resurrection life...by the Spirit. There is no sin in Christ. In Him is no sin.

If we take away the higher walk to make all believers claim to be walking at the same level as our Lord...then we are promoting a sinful holiness and destroying the high calling that is IN Christ.

Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed....God is never blind to our true condition.

Matt. 10:26 "Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."

Not sure this qualifies for the poll :) , but...

What would appear to be a "process" is only so from the perspective of those walking through the experience as God has arranged it to be experienced. To the contrary, the saying "before the foundation of the world" with regard to salvation is rather the case, even if we have yet to fully experience it. In this way, God is indeed a consuming fire. He does not dim the lights, then slowly cause them to go brighter and brighter until the day of the Lord. That day is rather "today" for the person, and "before the foundation of the world" with God, while set in the times of this world at the time of Christ...and not Him only, but also His whole body. Which when revealed to Paul, he came to say, "but each one in his own order." All of which is indeed hard to comprehend while in the midst of a walk which God has arranged to be superimposed into an experience over time which is every bit the creation as we are, and vice versa--an illusion made manifest by "image" for the purpose of exposing the darkness of every evil in judgement while revealing God.

 

[Keturah]

 

[Brakelite]

Oh…okay. I understand now what you were getting at. I didn’t understand when I read your op earlier.

We always make the same mistakes as Israel did, it seems.
I see leaving the bad doctrines behind as tearing down the idols of our fathers. Getting rid of the high places. Doing away with anything that exalts itself above Christ.

There are so many bad doctrines that everyone just seems to accept. I think all you can do is show with verses how they are not good teachings and hope God will show others too.

I think at least one main difficulty in men’s minds comes from the thought that it cannot be possible that it is enough they are seen by God to have done the right thing to trust since they keep having problems with their flesh - emotions and resentments and angers or whatever besetting problem you insert here. And these problems remain problems even if they manage to keep them hidden inside for the most part or somehow manage to bite their tongue, because the spirit of the matter is, anger is sin even if it never proceeds to the outside and remains hidden in the heart.
I think that’s why they come up with the reasonings and doctrines Of make believe stuff, like imputed goodness, since they assume actual goodness must be impossible because God has not resolved the problem for them yet and they don’t see anyone else they know the problem has been resolved in either.
You are right that the problem begins to be solved by making a distinction between what is holy and what is not and teaching on from there. And the uncertainty and fear that comes from that is something you have also tackled well, with your teaching about how God makes a place for some among the nations and doesn’t only make a place for the holy.

A lot of people are open to listening because they know something is insufficient but can’t figure out what.

But there are also, in every age, men who want to kill the men who begin to understand, with Gods help, enough to begin to truly be of practical help. Those (who are so angrily murderous and lacking all pity) are not the ones to be speaking or contending with. Only God can deal with them, like He did with the murderous Saul. If we contend with them, we do so in disobedience, in my opinion. The disobedience is refusing to listen about shaking off your feet, throwing pearls, or refusing to have anything to do with them. We can blame the angrily murderous ones but if those who more is expected of are continuing to be disobedient to any of our Lords commands, like the ones just mentioned, the greater condemnation will actually come to them. Sobering, huh?

I think those lessons apply particularly to marriage, when one partner knows Jesus and the other is still in the world. Good did not expect His children to contend with those who don't know Him and begin to rebuke, chastise, or argue over issues that only good can deal with. It's hypocritical. We give God the glory for freeing us from sin, then attempt to free others?

 

[amadeus]

Not sure this qualifies for the poll :) , but...

What would appear to be a "process" is only so from the perspective of those walking through the experience as God has arranged it to be experienced. To the contrary, the saying "before the foundation of the world" with regard to salvation is rather the case, even if we have yet to fully experience it. In this way, God is indeed a consuming fire. He does not dim the lights, then slowly cause them to go brighter and brighter until the day of the Lord. That day is rather "today" for the person, and "before the foundation of the world" with God, while set in the times of this world at the time of Christ...and not Him only, but also His whole body. Which when revealed to Paul, he came to say, "but each one in his own order." All of which is indeed hard to comprehend while in the midst of a walk which God has arranged to be superimposed into an experience over time which is every bit the creation as we are, and vice versa--an illusion made manifest by "image" for the purpose of exposing the darkness of every evil in judgement while revealing God.

Yes, indeed, our God IS a "consuming fire"! How close may a man approach that Fire, before it burns and consumes him? When the weather is freezing cold, does not everyone move closer to that Fire? But... in spite of the cold one who is unprepared can surely still be consumed.

With the heat comes the Light? How bright are we able to stand it without being blinded temporarily or permanently? Without the Light we cannot see at all!

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly

How many of the Lord's touches may we have or do we need in order to see clearly the things of God or the face of God?

When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

 

[ScottA]

Yes, indeed, our God IS a "consuming fire"! How close may a man approach that Fire, before it burns and consumes him? When the weather is freezing cold, does not everyone move closer to that Fire? But... in spite of the cold one who is unprepared can surely still be consumed.

With the heat comes the Light? How bright are we able to stand it without being blinded temporarily or permanently? Without the Light we cannot see at all!

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly

How many of the Lord's touches may we have or do we need in order to see clearly the things of God or the face of God?

When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

You make a good point. The blind man whom Jesus gave sight, with water and earth, only saw unclearly. But when Jesus caused Him to look up, he saw clearly.

Likewise, we too are first blind, then see dimly, and only if we look up do we see clearly.