The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

[bbyrd009]

Reality is sheer perfection.

word

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You really don’t know much about my beliefs, you couldn’t from a few posts, and you just lumped me in with others who disagree with you.

This again is a dodge of the verses I have put forth to you. How do you believe 1 Timothy 6:12? How do you accept the plain reading of this verse? I don’t see how you can based on your support of Belief Alone Salvationism so far.

So what’s gonna happen next is you will either be silent or you will try and change what 1 Timothy 6:12 says plainly in the English.

Why?

Because 1 Timothy 6:12 has been snatched out of your heart by the enemy and it is a verse that is not living on the inside of you. See the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13:18-23, and Luke 8:11-15.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You really don’t know much about my beliefs, you couldn’t from a few posts, and you just lumped me in with others who disagree with you.

How do you believe the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30?
How are these verses believed plainly in what they say?
Are these verses or words of our Lord living on the inside of your heart?

 

[RLT63]

You said in another thread: “Isaiah says our works are as filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6” (Source).
This was in reply to another poster talking about Faith Alone. You appeared to affirm his statement by your misinterpretation of Isaiah. Note: Isaiah was talking about man made works and not the works of God that He was requiring of them to do. Read Isaiah 64:5.

You said: “There’s salvation, sanctification and glorification. Salvation is freedom from the penalty of sin. Sanctification is freedom from the power of sin and Glorification is freedom from the presence of sin.”

This again is the same exact thing that others in the Belief Alone Camp will mindlessly repeat as some kind of factual mantra.

You also gave plenty of like reps to MailmanDan. Dan and I go back in our discussions on this topic on another forum (And I know what he believes). So now you are acting like you hit your head and are pretending like you have not revealed anything about your beliefs here (When that is simply not the case). You also said you watch Chuck Missler. He is for Once Saved Always Saved and the standard cookie cutter Belief Alone Salvationism type belief, as well. You hold to the excuse to sin interpretation on Romans 7:14-24 (Which is common again amongst the Belief Alone Salvationist camp). You also asked me how many steps in salvation are there. This suggests you are unaware of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9 in what they plainly say. You have rejected their plain normal reading just like other Belief Alone Salvationists have done. For a Christian would know that it’s not all grace we are saved by if they were to simply read and believe their Bible plainly. You also talked about how you are saved only by the blood in post #787. So lets not pretend like your beliefs are hidden here (When they are not). You cannot undo what you said here.

If you are talking about Chuck Missler and MailmanDan I do agree with much of what Missler taught and much of what MailmanDan posts that much is true. Refer to Ephesians 2;8-10 and Titus 3;5

 

[RLT63]

This again is a dodge of the verses I have put forth to you. How do you believe 1 Timothy 6:12? How do you accept the plain reading of this verse? I don’t see how you can based on your support of Belief Alone Salvationism so far.

So what’s gonna happen next is you will either be silent or you will try and change what 1 Timothy 6:12 says plainly in the English.

Why?

Because 1 Timothy 6:12 has been snatched out of your heart by the enemy and it is a verse that is not living on the inside of you. See the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13:18-23, and Luke 8:11-15.

I don’t see the connection to 1Timothy 6:12 and what you are pushing.

 

[RLT63]

How do you believe the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30?
How are these verses believed plainly in what they say?
Are these verses or words of our Lord living on the inside of your heart?

These words show that what you’re talking about is impossible. If you really believed what you are preaching you would have plucked your eye out and cut off your hand.

 

[RLT63]

Grace and peace to you this fine day that the Lord Jesus has made. His mercy and goodness endures forever (despite our disagreement here).

Anyways, to get down to the topic at hand:

Please take no offense, but you said you don’t hold to Textual Criticism. Yet, you don’t know what this term means because you contradict yourself by employing Textual Criticism in the very same post. Here is the definition of Textual Criticism by a simple Google search, my friend.

Source:

Google Search

www.google.com

Notice, that Textual Criticism is the process of attempting to ascertain the original wording of a text.

This is exactly what you tried to do in your post by looking to the original languages to find out the meaning (Instead of believing any Bible in the English). YOU become the authority (instead of the Bible) because YOU are picking and choosing what definition you prefer out of multiple definitions for that one word in a Lexicon (Original Languages Dictionary made by Modern scholars and not God). This would be choosing a word that runs contrary to the English (Making yourself in higher authority than the 47 translators of the King James Bible).

Notice that you did not employ Textual Criticism with 1 John 1:8. Why? Because you like the out of context reading of 1 John 1:8 in the English because it caters to your preferred mindset in setting out to defend sin (Just as others falsely use Isaiah 45:7 to defend the wrong idea that God creates evil directly by our Modern understanding on that word). But God cannot agree with your sin. Therein lies the problem (of which you cannot see). So when you are confronted with a truth you don’t like in the Bible in the English, you have to play the Textual Criticism game and try to undo the text in English (With selecting an original languages definition from a Lexicon you prefer).

My encouragement: Pray to ask God to seek ye out the book of the LORD (Isaiah 34:16).

The problem in Textual Criticism is that most of them don’t actually believe there is any perfect inerrant divinely inspired Bible in the original languages that exists that they can hold in their hands and read and speak from.

Let God’s Spirit guide you to the right Bible. I believe if you do so… He will guide you to the King James Bible (while also using Modern Bibles to help update the 1600’s English in the KJB). At least that has been my journey so far with the LORD. For you cannot have a final Word of authority in our our own current modern day language by looking to dead languages that you cannot possibly really know. God will hold us accountable to the language we know and not to a language we don’t know. I believe God preserved His words for today just as His Word says (Psalms 12:6-7 KJB). One of the goals of the devil is to attack God’s Word and to distort it. We see this both in the Garden of Eden with the serpent and Eve and we also see this with Jesus in the wilderness (a desert area) with the devil.

Textual Criticism is about having faith in scholars and or Lexicons and in yourself (picking and choosing a definition of your choice out of an array of definitions). Not even all Lexicons are the same. Not all manuscripts are the same. So where is your Bible in the original languages? There isn’t one. You need a perfect Bible because if you don’t have a perfect Bible then how do you know you have the correct doctrines? Yet…

Every word of God is pure (Proverbs 30:5).

Are you aware that the KJV contains copyist’s errors? I like the KJV as well as the NKJV, the NASB 95 and the Net Full Notes Edition. The KJV is a good Bible but it is not perfect as King James Only proponents claim. I may be wrong but I took Johann to be referring to modern scholars when he mentioned Textual Criticism. I don’t agree with modern scholars that the Alexandrian texts are superior to the Byzantine texts and I like the KJV and the NKJV because they don’t exclude the passages that most modern Bibles do. But they are not perfect.(I also like the literal translations the YLT and the LSV but they are not always the easiest to read)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you are talking about Chuck Missler and MailmanDan I do agree with much of what Missler taught and much of what MailmanDan posts that much is true. Refer to Ephesians 2;8-10 and Titus 3;5

I used to watch Chuck Missler early on in my faith when I was new and had no clue about what the Bible said in regards to salvation.
His videos on evidences for the Bible are still good (like sevens in the Bible) but his view of Soteriology is heretical (Which is the view held by the majority of the wide gate path of Christianity today).

Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with how we are Initially Saved by God’s grace (Which is a process of salvation without works) (Read the beginning of the chapter). Ephesians 2:9 are also referring to Man Directed Works because one is boasting in these kinds of works (See Romans 3:27 in that boasting is excluded when it comes to the Law of Faith). Ephesians 2:10 is talking about the works of faith that must follow AFTER we are saved by God’s grace. Titus 3:5 is also talking about our Initial Salvation. Read the verses before to get the context.

Again, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. It’s like the big elephant in the room that you are ignoring. God has chosen you to salvation THROUGH the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel - verse 14).

Galatians 6:8-9 talks about how if you sow to the Spirit you will reap everlasting life, and we are told to not be wearing in well doing (i.e. sowing to the Spirit) for we will reap if we faint not. Well doing are good works. Good works are sowing to the Spirit. You need to do this as a part of reaping everlasting life.

Romans 8:13 says if you live after the flesh, you will die (die spiritually), but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

So there is not only grace verses We have to believe but there are also holiness verses we have to believe as a part of salvation, too. You need to deal with them. If not, you are only seeing what you want to see in the Bible (Cherry picking what verses you prefer that are more comforting to you).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don’t see the connection to 1Timothy 6:12 and what you are pushing.

You cannot see what 1 Timothy 6:12 says because you speak against it based on the fictional words that come from popular Christianity.
1 Timothy 6:12 is not going to remain in you. Again, I would write 1 Timothy 6:12 down and memorize it and make it one of your favorite verses. If not, you are going to simply speak against what it says (Based on what popular Christianity says).

 

[RLT63]

I used to watch Chuck Missler early on in my faith when I was new and had no clue about what the Bible said in regards to salvation.
His videos on evidences for the Bible are still good (like sevens in the Bible) but his view of Soteriology is heretical (Which is the view held by the majority of the wide gate path of Christianity today).

Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with how we are Initially Saved by God’s grace (Which is a process of salvation without works) (Read the beginning of the chapter). Ephesians 2:9 are also referring to Man Directed Works because one is boasting in these kinds of works (See Romans 3:27 in that boasting is excluded when it comes to the Law of Faith). Ephesians 2:10 is talking about the works of faith that must follow AFTER we are saved by God’s grace. Titus 3:5 is also talking about our Initial Salvation. Read the verses before to get the context.

Again, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. It’s like the big elephant in the room that you are ignoring. God has chosen you to salvation THROUGH the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel - verse 14).

Galatians 6:8-9 talks about how if you sow to the Spirit you will reap everlasting life, and we are told to not be wearing in well doing (i.e. sowing to the Spirit) for we will reap if we faint not. Well doing are good works. Good works are sowing to the Spirit. You need to do this as a part of reaping everlasting life.

Romans 8:13 says if you live after the flesh, you will die (die spiritually), but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

So there is not only grace verses We have to believe but there are also holiness verses we have to believe as a part of salvation, too. You need to deal with them. If not, you are only seeing what you want to see in the Bible (Cherry picking what verses you prefer that are more comforting to you).

2Th 2:13 - And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth, (YLT) literal translation

 

[RLT63]

You cannot see what 1 Timothy 6:12 says because you speak against it based on the fictional words that come from popular Christianity.
1 Timothy 6:12 is not going to remain in you. Again, I would write 1 Timothy 6:12 down and memorize it and make it one of your favorite verses. If not, you are going to simply speak against what it says (Based on what popular Christianity says).

I’m not speaking against it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

These words show that what you’re talking about is impossible. If you really believed what you are preaching you would have plucked your eye out and cut off your hand.

Not at all. Even in our own language we use metaphor mixed in with literal sayings or speech. For example: Rick can say that Bob bought the farm, and so he needs to make funeral arrangements. It does not mean the whole sentence here is metaphor just because one part of the sentence uses slang or metaphor. What about Matthew 6:15? Is that metaphor, too (Because you don‘t like what it says)?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I’m not speaking against it.

Every time you repeat the words of popular Christianity you are doing so.
There is no way you can quote popular Christianity in regards to Soteriology, and then also say you believe you can FIGHT the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life.

1 Timothy 6:12 would be considered Legalism according to popular Christianity. But because it is in the Bible it gets a free pass and they really don’t know how to explain it what it says at face value. So they either ignore or it (leaving it a mystery) or they will attempt to explain the verse away in what it plainly says (Because it does not jive with their Belief Alone Salvation viewpoint).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I’m not speaking against it.

Then how do you believe 1 Timothy 6:12?
How do you believe in fighting the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life?
How does that really work in Belief Alone Salvationism? It simply doesn’t.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2Th 2:13 - And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth, (YLT) literal translation

Not sure how the YLT undoes what this verse says in the King James Bible. In something can also sound like through something. Sounds like the same thing to me. God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth.

Through:
(Defintion):

1. expressing movement into one side and out of the other side of an opening, channel, or location.

So through is being described here as being inside something. The YLT uses the word “in” (which means inside).

In:
(Definition):
inner; internal:

So they are saying the same thing here. Salvation is INSIDE or THROUGH the Sanctification of the Spirit.
Again… just read Galatians 6:8-9, and Romans 8:13. It confirms this same truth found in 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

 

[RLT63]

Not at all. Even in our own language we use metaphor mixed in with literal sayings or speech. For example: Rick can say that Bob bought the farm, and so he needs to make funeral arrangements. It does not mean the whole sentence here is metaphor just because one part of the sentence uses slang or metaphor. What about Matthew 6:15? Is that metaphor, too (Because you like what it says)?

I think Matthew 6:15 confirms the parable of the servant who was forgiven a debt he could not pay then had someone jailed for failing to pay him back a small sum. Look what happened to him. Will we go to Hell if we fail to forgive someone? You’ll have to ask someone who knows more than I do but it seems foolish to take the chance. I agree with you that we should fight to live a Godly life, I don’t agree that this is what saves us.

 

[RLT63]

Not sure how the YLT undoes what this verse says in the King James Bible. In something can also sound like through something. Sounds like the same thing to me. God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth.

Through:
(Defintion):

1. expressing movement into one side and out of the other side of an opening, channel, or location.

So through is being described here as being inside something. The YLT uses the word “in” (which means inside).

In:
(Definition):
inner; internal:

So they are saying the same thing here. Salvation is INSIDE or THROUGH the Sanctification of the Spirit.
Again… just read Galatians 6:8-9, and Romans 8:13. It confirms this same truth found in 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

It says what you want it to say according to you. You criticize people for doing a word study in the original language but then you do one in English.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you aware that the KJV contains copyist’s errors?

I know of the claims of those who do not believe there is no book of the LORD that they can seek out and find (Isaiah 34:16).
Most do not believe in a perfect inerrant and divinely inspired book known as the Bible that they can hold in their hands.
Many today see that all bibles have errors in them. Therefore, THEY become the authority and not the Bible.

I believe the Cambridge Edition (circa 1900) King James Bible is the final purified edition of the 1611 (King James Bible).
There were seven purifications or MAJOR editions (and not minor ones). Scripture talks about how His Word is purified seven times (Psalms 12:6).

www.bibleprotector.com/forum • View topic - Seven major purifications of the KJB

In 1828, the Apocrypha was taken out of the KJB. This is one reason why I believe there was a final purification with the Cambridge Edition KJB in 1900. While Christians knew the Apocrypha was not really authoritative Scripture, it was still in the Bible and needed to be removed so as not to mislead or misguide others. Hence, the need for one last update, and this was the 1900 Cambridge Edition.

I use Modern Translations to help update the 1600’s English (archaic English) in the King James Bible, but the Modern Bibles are not my final Word of authority because they make changes for the worse and not for the better.

I like the KJV as well as the NKJV, the NASB 95 and the Net Full Notes Edition. The KJV is a good Bible but it is not perfect as King James Only proponents claim. I may be wrong but I took Johann to be referring to modern scholars when he mentioned Textual Criticism. I don’t agree with modern scholars that the Alexandrian texts are superior to the Byzantine texts and I like the KJV and the NKJV because they don’t exclude the passages that most modern Bibles do. But they are not perfect.(I also like the literal translations the YLT and the LSV but they are not always the easiest to read)

I am not KJB Only (Whereby I am not allowed to read Modern Bibles), but I prefer to call myself Core KJB. Meaning, the KJB is my core foundational text, and I use Modern Translations to help update the archaic language at times in the KJB.

The KJB is my base because…

#1. The KJB stands out as most pure vs. Modern Bibles (I will attempt to prove this in my next posts to you).
#2. The Perfect Bible Translation or copy of the Scriptures is a position that can be defended by the Bible itself (and the Textual Criticism approach to the Bible cannot be found in the Bible as a teaching; Meaning we do not read of the prophets and apostles looking to some more ancient language always to figure out what God really said).
#3. Men have lost their lives in the leading up to the coming of the King James Bible. The Catholic Church and it’s persecution against the Word of God in history can be seen against the Textus Receptus (Byzantine texts) when William Tyndale translated the Scriptures into English. This then led in time through different Textus Receptus Bibles eventually to the King James Bible. The Catholics wanted to kill King James and his translation (the KJB) with a super bomb. The King James Bible was the first Bible that went out to the common man and it was not tied to just one religion. It was the standard for hundreds of years (Until the Catholic Church decided to change tactics in their attack against God’s Word. Instead of killing people for spreading the Scriptures or possessing them, they decided to popularize Textual Criticism with two men, Westcott and Hort - who were into Catholicism. Catholics later in history updated their work with the Nestle and Aland Greek New Testament text - which was supervised by the Vatican).
#4. Biblical Numerics. (Just as Chuck Missler can demonstrate how there is a code in the original text to show that it is divine, the same is true with the King James Bible).

You can check this out in my evidences for the Bible in my Blogger article here:

Evidences for the Word of God

When I renewed my faith, I have personally catalogued 4 major groups that back up the Scriptures. These categories are Science, History, E...

lovebranch.blogspot.com

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It says what you want it to say according to you. You criticize people for doing a word study in the original language but then you do one in English.

I criticize people for doing word studies in the original languages (When they try to UNDO THE ENGLISH words in the KJB) because they think they know more than the 47 translators on the King James Bible, and they cling to recent Lexicons (From Modern Scholarship). I will again attempt to explain this in more detail why it is a problem.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@RLT63

A List of Doctrines Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJB and Modern Translations):

#1. Doctrine of The Trinity is Affected; For the Only Verse (1 John 5:7) That Point Blank Tells Us About the Trinity is Removed:
Also, the word “Godhead”(Meaning Trinity) is also changed to mean something else. So all direct references of the Trinity are gone. If I were on an island and had no clue about Christianity, the odds of my understanding of the Trinity would be better if I had a King James bible vs. a Modern Translation bible that removes this valuable truth about knowing the Trinity. So this proves that Modern Translations are less helpful for me to understand the Trinity by using the Bible alone.

#2. The Doctrine of Fasting To Cast Out Persistent Demons is Removed:
Matthew 17:21 tells us that casting out persistent or really strong devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, Matthew 17:21 is oddly removed in Modern Translations. Mark 9:29 mentions that you can pray to remove these kinds of devils, but it does not mention fasting. So the key doctrine of fasting to cast out really strong demons is gone. So the enemy wins if a person only adheres to the Modern Translations and they have a "hate on" for the KJV. For if you have ever encountered strong demonic activity like this before, you know that fasting does actually help greatly, and not just prayer alone.

#3. The Full Version of the Doctrine of Having "No Condemnation" According to Romans 8:1 is Removed:
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Modern Translations leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The KJV says, as a part of having no Condemnation: We have to (a) Be in Christ Jesus, AND: (b) Walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. The enemy wants Christians today to justify sin instead of battling against it. So the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water-down version of His holy Word to promote the idea that they do not need to worry about sin destroying their soul.

#4. In Genesis 3:16, the ESV (Which is one of the most popular Modern Translations) Doctrinally Changes the Nature of the Truth in the KJV by Saying that Eve's (the wife's) Desire is Contrary To Her Husband's.

#5. 2 Corinthians 3:12, and Habakkuk 2:2 is Altered by Modern Translations To Eliminate How God Uses Plainness of Speech.

This is important because Modern Translation believers prefer to look to the original languages to understand God's Word as their only go-to source. While I am not against original language word studies, I believe this should be done occasionally or when the text is difficult. But some in the Modern Translation movement will make it seem like you cannot truly understand God's Word just by reading the Bible in English. This is not the plainness of speech that God employs. While God can speak in metaphor or parables, He also speaks in plainness of speech, too. This has to apply to our life today in some way. Surely it is not a coincidence that these two key verses are eliminated in their favored Modern Translations (that influences their way of thinking).

#6. Philippians 2:7 Changes Doctrine by Removing an Aspect of the Deity of Christ During His Earthly Ministry.
Philippians 2:6-7 says correctly,

6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Philippians 2:6-7).
King James correctly says that Christ made himself of no reputation.

Different Modern Translations say that He “emptied himself,” and the NLT says that “he gave up his divine privileges;” (Philippians 2:7). This is false, and it is a denial of the deity of Christ. God cannot cease to become God. God cannot cut out an aspect of who He is at His core in having divine power and yet still be God. That would be a contradiction. The Modern Translations teach a gnostic heresy in denying that Jesus has power as God. Granted, Jesus had grown in wisdom (See: Luke 2:52), but I believe this was not an elimination of His divine powers as God, but it was a suppression of them (See: John 17:5, Habakkuk 2:14). For Jesus needed to be a like figure or type of Adam; For Adam also was limited in knowledge when He was in a right relationship with God before the Fall (See: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47). However, Jesus clearly had power as God as a man before the cross. For...

Jesus had power as God:
(during his earthly ministry):

#1. Jesus said He has the power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had the power to raise the dead (John 5:21).​

#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.​

#3. Jesus said He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).​

#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).​

#5 Jesus had the power to take away the entire world's sins (John 1:29).​

#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.​

#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).​

#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).​

So Modern Translations are wrong. In fact, many Christians today think Jesus gave up His divine powers; This is because of the wrong teaching (or wrong doctrine) behind Modern Translations.​

Anyways, these are just a few of the red flags in Modern Translations.
But Modern Translations has so many red flags that it would make one think they were in a Russian airport.