Why the Jews wanted the crosses removed “THAT DAY”

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Why the Jews wanted the crosses removed “THAT DAY”



1.

John 19

31they (therefore) asked that the bodies be taken down and the crosses removed

ἠρώτησαν (οὖν) ἵνα κατεαγῶσιν τὰ σκέλη καὶ ἀρθῶσιν.

Deuteronomy 21

23that thy land be not defiled for he that is hanged is accursed of God.



2.

John 19

31But the Jews besought Pilate that the bodies should not remain

31Οἱ οὖν Ἰουδαῖοι ἠρώτησαν τὸν Πειλᾶτον ἵνα μὴ μείνῃremain



upon the cross on the sabbath* since it was Preparation

ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ τὰ σώματα ἐν τῷ σαββάτῳ* ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν,



because it was Great Day sabbath day* That Day.

ἦν γὰρ μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου.*

[**** ‘sabbath’ of passover]

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[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

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___
ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν________________A |

ἐν τῷ σαββάτῳ……………….................B |

======================= | Abib 15

ἦν γὰρ μεγάλη τοῦ σαββάτου_____A |

ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου………………...............B__|

 

[Jim B]

Why the Jews wanted the crosses removed “THAT DAY”



1.

John 19

31they (therefore) asked that the bodies be taken down and the crosses removed

ἠρώτησαν (οὖν) ἵνα κατεαγῶσιν τὰ σκέλη καὶ ἀρθῶσιν.

Deuteronomy 21

23that thy land be not defiled for he that is hanged is accursed of God.



2.

John 19

31But the Jews besought Pilate that the bodies should not remain

31Οἱ οὖν Ἰουδαῖοι ἠρώτησαν τὸν Πειλᾶτον ἵνα μὴ μείνῃremain



upon the cross on the sabbath* since it was Preparation

ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ τὰ σώματα ἐν τῷ σαββάτῳ* ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν,



because it was Great Day sabbath day* That Day.

ἦν γὰρ μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου.*

[**** ‘sabbath’ of passover]

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Your posts of John 19:31 are contradictory. The Jews wanted the bodies removed, not the crosses. Also, the vertical post of the cross was permanent; only the horizontal bar was added, then taken down.

They wanted the bodies removed so that the Sabbath would not be defiled.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Your posts of John 19:31 are contradictory. The Jews wanted the bodies removed, not the crosses. Also, the vertical post of the cross was permanent; only the horizontal bar was added, then taken down.

They wanted the bodies removed so that the Sabbath would not be defiled.

"THEY = IT might be taken away" --

142 [e] arthōsin ἀρθῶσιν . they might be taken away V-ASP-3P​

applies to BOTH the crucified and crosses.

<The Jews wanted the bodies removed, not the crosses.> They wanted everything which could "REMIND" of Egyptian overlording - now the Roman crosses and crucified - "removed BECAUSE THAT DAY WAS/BEING HIGH DAY of (passover) sabbath" for the Jews. For the Jews it was nothing but national pride "ON THAT DAY HIGH DAY" on their religious calendar.
It was not "the Seventh Day of the week Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD", "that day having begun and it having been evening the Preparation already", ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν in John 19:31, which in Mark 15:42,43 Matthew 27:57f Luke 23:50f "already had been evening---when JOSEPH came there" 42 Καὶ ἤδη ὀψίας γενομένης, ἐπεὶ ἦν Παρασκευή ὅ ἐστιν προσάββατον, 43 ἐλθὼν Ἰωσὴφ.
According to you, the bodies would have had to be removed and the body of Jesus must have been buried ON THE SABBATH which in all four Gospels ALREADY HAD TO HAVE BEGUN (with sunset) and the arrival of Joseph.

Now WHY do you allege <They wanted the bodies removed so that the Sabbath would not be defiled>? because you say Jesus rose on Sunday and was crucified, died, AND WAS BURIED on Friday? IOW to force Saturday to be the middle day of the "three days", 'STILL Saturday'?

The rest is plain logic. How do you think they got the alive criminals fastened to the crosses? And their dead bodies taken down?
And historical fact. None of your funny ideas simply never occurred.
And UNBIBLICAL--- where is SCRIPTURE for what you're spinning?



"The cursed shall not hang all night, ye shall take him off and bury him That Selfsame Day" : he shall not be SEEN defile the land.

 

[rockytopva]

"THEY = IT might be taken away" -- 'arthohsin' Masculine AND Neuter Participle, applies to BOTH the crucified and crosses.

<The Jews wanted the bodies removed, not the crosses.> They wanted everything which could "REMIND" of Egyptian overlording - now the Roman crosses and crucified - "removed BECAUSE THAT DAY WAS/BEING HIGH DAY of (passover) sabbath" for the Jews. For the Jews it was nothing but national pride "ON THAT DAY HIGH DAY" on their religious calendar.
It was not "the Seventh Day of the week Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD", "that day having begun and it having been evening the Preparation already", ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν in John 19:31, which in Mark 15:42,43 Matthew 27:57f Luke 23:50f "already had been evening---when JOSEPH came there" 42 Καὶ ἤδη ὀψίας γενομένης, ἐπεὶ ἦν Παρασκευή ὅ ἐστιν προσάββατον, 43 ἐλθὼν Ἰωσὴφ.
According to you, the bodies would have had to be removed and the body of Jesus must have been buried ON THE SABBATH which in all four Gospels ALREADY HAD TO HAVE BEGUN (with sunset) and the arrival of Joseph.

Now WHY do you allege <They wanted the bodies removed so that the Sabbath would not be defiled>? because you say Jesus rose on Sunday and was crucified, died, AND WAS BURIED on Friday? IOW to force Saturday to be the middle day of the "three days", 'STILL Saturday'?

The rest is plain logic. How do you think they got the bodies fastened to the crosses? And taken down?
And historical fact. None of your funny ideas simply never occurred.
And UNBIBLICAL--- where is SCRIPTURE for what you're spinning?

View attachment 27779

Any chance I can remind you that...

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. - James 3

 

[atpollard]

"The cursed shall not hang all night, ye shall take him off and bury him That Selfsame Day" : he shall not be SEEN defile the land.

Good point ... although you could have just opened with it.

God ordered bodies not to remain hung on a tree to avoid a curse on the "land/people" rather than upon the dead. So Jewish Law demanded the bodies be removed now (since after sunset, they would have to either violate one law or another by removing the bodies on a Holy Day or not removing the bodies that same day.)

Interesting. Motivated self interest plays into God's prophecies unfolding as ordained.

 

[Jim B]

"THEY = IT might be taken away" -- 'arthohsin' Masculine AND Neuter Plural Participle, applies to BOTH the crucified and crosses.

<The Jews wanted the bodies removed, not the crosses.> They wanted everything which could "REMIND" of Egyptian overlording - now the Roman crosses and crucified - "removed BECAUSE THAT DAY WAS/BEING HIGH DAY of (passover) sabbath" for the Jews. For the Jews it was nothing but national pride "ON THAT DAY HIGH DAY" on their religious calendar.
It was not "the Seventh Day of the week Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD", "that day having begun and it having been evening the Preparation already", ἐπεὶ Παρασκευὴ ἦν in John 19:31, which in Mark 15:42,43 Matthew 27:57f Luke 23:50f "already had been evening---when JOSEPH came there" 42 Καὶ ἤδη ὀψίας γενομένης, ἐπεὶ ἦν Παρασκευή ὅ ἐστιν προσάββατον, 43 ἐλθὼν Ἰωσὴφ.
According to you, the bodies would have had to be removed and the body of Jesus must have been buried ON THE SABBATH which in all four Gospels ALREADY HAD TO HAVE BEGUN (with sunset) and the arrival of Joseph.

Now WHY do you allege <They wanted the bodies removed so that the Sabbath would not be defiled>? because you say Jesus rose on Sunday and was crucified, died, AND WAS BURIED on Friday? IOW to force Saturday to be the middle day of the "three days", 'STILL Saturday'?

The rest is plain logic. How do you think they got the alive criminals fastened to the crosses? And their dead bodies taken down?
And historical fact. None of your funny ideas simply never occurred.
And UNBIBLICAL--- where is SCRIPTURE for what you're spinning?

View attachment 27779

"The cursed shall not hang all night, ye shall take him off and bury him That Selfsame Day" : he shall not be SEEN defile the land.

If you think I will discuss this further with you, you are mistaken. It's obvious that you are incapable of having a reasonable discussion.

 

[atpollard]

Now WHY do you allege <They wanted the bodies removed so that the Sabbath would not be defiled>? because you say Jesus rose on Sunday and was crucified, died, AND WAS BURIED on Friday? IOW to force Saturday to be the middle day of the "three days", 'STILL Saturday'?

The Disciples DID encounter Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week, as they walked down the road. They told him that this was the THIRD DAY since "these things happened" [ie. Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified]. [see Luke 24]

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Good point ... although you could have just opened with it.

God ordered bodies not to remain hung on a tree to avoid a curse on the "land/people" rather than upon the dead. So Jewish Law demanded the bodies be removed now (since after sunset, they would have to either violate one law or another by removing the bodies on a Holy Day or not removing the bodies that same day.)

Interesting. Motivated self interest plays into God's prophecies unfolding as ordained.

Good example of your <good point> in <motivated self interest> - smart guy.

You know better than that which is Written, that the individual hung is cursed because hung. Smart guy. Written inspired by God, not <Jewish Law> which <demanded the bodies be removed>.

Deuteronomy is not silly messianic christians' law that demands the bodies be removed
<since it was after sunset>,
or, that
<they would violate one law or another> of israel roots besotted antitrinitarians,
<by removing the bodies on a Holy Day>,
or,
<not removing the bodies that same day> : THE VERY WORDS AND INTENT OF WRITTEN TEXT DENYING AND DEFYING !
Where you oukies think you are from? Sent by God to substitute the Holy Spirit and Moses and all the prophets?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If you think I will discuss this further with you, you are mistaken. It's obvious that you are incapable of having a reasonable discussion.

Never thought you would

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The Disciples DID encounter Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week, as they walked down the road. They told him that this was the THIRD DAY since "these things happened" [ie. Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified]. [see Luke 24]

Absolutely EXEPT : YOU put YOUR quotation marks WHERE : YOU wanted it.
Just tell me WHY : YOU DO : it, that is, PUT THE QUOTATION MARK SO AS TO EXCLUDE THE WRITTEN WORD THERE "SINCE"?!
God be merciful
It does NOT say <this was the THIRD DAY...these things happened"...ie. Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified>;
it says "this is the third day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified".

Am I lying, or are you lying? Am I twisting Scripture or are you twisting Scripture? LET US SEE:
it says "this - Sunday - is the third day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified".
Therefore Saturday was the second day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified",
Therefore Friday was the first day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified", and
Therefore THURSDAY was THE day THAT these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified, HAPPENED".
atpollard, in the Name of Jesus, I plead with you. Have I written these same things a hundred times in my lifetime, it must be a thousand times. I'm just human, please forgive me that I loose patience.

 

[atpollard]

Good example of your <good point> in <motivated self interest> - smart guy.

You know better than that which is Written, that the individual hung is cursed because hung. Smart guy. Written inspired by God, not <Jewish Law> which <demanded the bodies be removed>.

Deuteronomy is not silly messianic christians' law that demands the bodies be removed
<since it was after sunset>,
or, that
<they would violate one law or another> of israel roots besotted antitrinitarians,
<by removing the bodies on a Holy Day>,
or,
<not removing the bodies that same day> : THE VERY WORDS AND INTENT OF WRITTEN TEXT DENYING AND DEFYING !
Where you oukies think you are from? Sent by God to substitute the Holy Spirit and Moses and all the prophets?

I would respond ... but I can't follow your "stream of consciousness" writing.

FYI: The term is "Okie" (Okies) not "oukies"

Okie: [from Merriam-Webster Dictionary]
1 (informal): a native or resident of Oklahoma
2 (informal + sometimes disparaging): a migrant agricultural worker; especially: one from Oklahoma in the 1930s

I am neither from Oklahoma nor a migrant agricultural worker, so your personal attack ultimately reflects YOUR ignorance rather than mine. However, it IS a violation of the rules of this forum and Christian behavior.

 

[atpollard]

Absolutely EXEPT : YOU put YOUR quotation marks WHERE : YOU wanted it.
Just tell me WHY : YOU DO : it, that is, PUT THE QUOTATION MARK SO AS TO EXCLUDE THE WRITTEN WORD THERE "SINCE"?!
God be merciful
It does NOT say <this was the THIRD DAY...these things happened"...ie. Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified>;
it says "this is the third day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified".

Am I lying, or are you lying? Am I twisting Scripture or are you twisting Scripture? LET US SEE:
it says "this - Sunday - is the third day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified".
Therefore Saturday was the second day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified",
Therefore Friday was the first day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified", and
Therefore THURSDAY was THE day THAT these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified, HAPPENED".
atpollard, in the Name of Jesus, I plead with you. Have I written these same things a hundred times in my lifetime, it must be a thousand times. I'm just human, please forgive me that I loose patience.

I offer a quick lesson in English Grammar:

Only the words within the quotation marks are a direct (verbatim) quotation. The words outside the quotation marks are either my original words or a paraphrase or have been altered in some way from the original.​

In the case of Post #9, against which you have railed like a madman against my punctuation, I intended to quote only a small portion since I wanted to clearly distinguish the exact words of scripture ("these things happened") from my paraphrase of what "these things" were. Otherwise, the entire post was a paraphrase of scripture because the verse specifying that it was the first day of the week and the verse specifying this was the third day since were separated by many verses. My post did not warrant quoting most of a chapter to make a brief point that it was Sunday, the third day after Jesus died.

With respect to your Post #12, the quotation marks would only belong around something like "this - Sunday - is the third day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified" if everything within those quotation marks was a direct quote. What bible translation employs ": ie.," in its verses?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I offer a quick lesson in English Grammar:
Only the words within the quotation marks are a direct (verbatim) quotation. The words outside the quotation marks are either my original words or a paraphrase or have been altered in some way from the original.

So you post for self education im okdokys with that, you need a bit'

But with this your statement <Only the words within the quotation marks are a direct (verbatim) quotation. The words outside the quotation marks are either my original words or a paraphrase or have been altered in some way from the original.> YOU AGAIN CONFIRM the word "since" is your word and is not Luke's. So it has to be confirmation that you LIE and LIED from the start, since the word "since" in Luke 24:21, IS NOT YOURS; it is Luke's or and Cleopas' == ultimately God's Word. Smart guy.

 

[atpollard]

So you post for self education im okdokys with that, you need a bit'

But with this your statement <Only the words within the quotation marks are a direct (verbatim) quotation. The words outside the quotation marks are either my original words or a paraphrase or have been altered in some way from the original.> YOU AGAIN CONFIRM the word "since" is your word and is not Luke's. So it has to be confirmation that you LIE and LIED from the start, since the word "since" in Luke 24:21, IS NOT YOURS; it is Luke's or and Cleopas' == ultimately God's Word. Smart guy.

I will pray for your reading comprehension handicap.

In the case of Post #9, against which you have railed like a madman against my punctuation, I intended to quote only a small portion since I wanted to clearly distinguish the exact words of scripture ("these things happened") from my paraphrase of what "these things" were. Otherwise, the entire post was a paraphrase of scripture because the verse specifying that it was the first day of the week and the verse specifying this was the third day since were separated by many verses. My post did not warrant quoting most of a chapter to make a brief point that it was Sunday, the third day after Jesus died.

Until God heals you, I will leave you alone.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I offer a quick lesson in English Grammar:

Only the words within the quotation marks are a direct (verbatim) quotation. The words outside the quotation marks are either my original words or a paraphrase or have been altered in some way from the original.​

In the case of Post #9, against which you have railed like a madman against my punctuation, I intended to quote only a small portion since I wanted to clearly distinguish the exact words of scripture ("these things happened") from my paraphrase of what "these things" were. Otherwise, the entire post was a paraphrase of scripture because the verse specifying that it was the first day of the week and the verse specifying this was the third day since were separated by many verses. My post did not warrant quoting most of a chapter to make a brief point that it was Sunday, the third day after Jesus died.

With respect to your Post #12, the quotation marks would only belong around something like "this - Sunday - is the third day SINCE these things : ie., that Jesus was betrayed by the leaders and crucified" if everything within those quotation marks was a direct quote. What bible translation employs ": ie.," in its verses?

Thumbs down
down the pit
longdropphilosophycafé multiplication of nothing saying meaningless ... wordslike sounding noises

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What bible translation employs ": ie.," in its verses?

the way it is stated of someone who has an IQ below that of a chimp