The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

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Bible Highlighter

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How so?

Much love!
I just pointed it out to you in that they have not so learned by Christ in walking like the Gentiles given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. This means we have to be holy conduct. Peter says in 1 Peter 1 about how you are to add to your faith certain things to make your calling and election sure and if you do those things you will never fall. But if you lack those things, Peter says you are blind. This means one is not saved if they are not living the walk. One part of Hebrews 12:14 basically says follow after holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. So either you are on that path or your not. It’s conditional and not unconditional. God is not going to force you to live holy. It’s why we are admonished to live holy, etcetera.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Focus on this part here . . .

Much love!
Paul corrects the Corinthians for their sin in 1 Corinthians 3:3, and he also was afraid of having to rebuke them for sin that they did not repent of when he came to visit them (See: 2 Corinthians). Jesus said we can judge righteously. We can correct and rebuke with God’s Word according to 2 Timothy 3:16. So again, your false claim that Paul does not know what sins he does based on 1 Corinthians 4 is false. In Corinthians 5, Paul tells the church to kick out a Christian out of their fellowship for committing sexual immorality. So again, your taking the Bible out of context.
 

marks

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Paul corrects the Corinthians for their sin in 1 Corinthians 3:3, and he also was afraid of having to rebuke them for sin that they did not repent of when he came to visit them (See: 2 Corinthians). Jesus said we can judge righteously. We can correct and rebuke with God’s Word according to 2 Timothy 3:16. So again, your false claim that Paul does not know what sins he does based on 1 Corinthians 4 is false. In Corinthians 5, Paul tells the church to kick out a Christian out of their fellowship for committing sexual immorality. So again, your taking the Bible out of context.
That doesn't address the passage.

1 Corinthians 4:1-6 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.


This is a declarative statement. Indicative. Paul makes 3 propositional statements here. They mean something.

Much love!
 

marks

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So either you are on that path or your not. It’s conditional and not unconditional.
On that path? What? You are not "on that path" if you have sinned. You've been knocked off of that path. Until you are born again again. Or so it seems to me from what you've been saying.

I'm hoping you won't skip over my post #455, copied below for your convenience:

So to confirm . . . you believe that when you are born again, become a new creation, that should you sin, that you will cease to be born again, and will again be only the Adamic creature, but not the new creation. And that should you repent from that sin, confessing and receiving forgiveness for that sin, you will be born anew from God.

Is that correct? This is your understanding?

~~~~~

And I'll add the next question, that if this is in fact your understanding, what does being "born again" mean? What happens that you are reborn? What does it mean about the one who is reborn?

Much love!
 
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Bible Highlighter

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So to confirm . . . you believe that when you are born again, become a new creation, that should you sin, that you will cease to be born again, and will again be only the Adamic creature, but not the new creation. And that should you repent from that sin, confessing and receiving forgiveness for that sin, you will be born anew from God.

Is that correct? This is your understanding?

Much love!
I believe that one is born again and changed one time. But after that, one can die spiritually, and be made alive again spiritually at another time. For example: A person can be born into this world, and die, and then be brought back to life. It’s rare, but it can happen. The one Christian film based on a true story illustrates this. You can check it out in this thread here:

 

Bible Highlighter

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That doesn't address the passage.

1 Corinthians 4:1-6 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.


This is a declarative statement. Indicative. Paul makes 3 propositional statements here. They mean something.

Much love!
Again, your mindset is to see sin as a justification where there is none. I already showed you the context that Paul is not referring to sins he does not know about.
 
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Behold

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I believe that one is born again and changed one time. But after that, one can die spiritually,

There is not a verse in the NT that says that a born again Christian, can "die spiritually".

I dont think you are making this up, out of your own head....Bible Highlighter, ... and it would be interesting to find out the Cult or commentary you are using that is teaching such anti-bible, anti-Cross, theology.
 

marks

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Again, you mindset is to see sin as a justification where there is none. I already showed you the context that Paul is not referring to sins he does not know about.
It's OK, you don't have to address this.

I want to talk about a verse, you want to talk about what you perceive my "mindset" to be.

Much love!
 
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marks

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I believe that one is born again and changed one time. But after that, one can die spiritually, and be made alive again spiritually at another time.
So then you do not see being born again as being the same thing as "made alive spiritually"? Interesting. I don't see that view much.

But to your response, you are saying that you can be born again, and then be spiritually dead, but you remain born again? Is that what you are saying?

And that this spiritual death occurs at any occasion of sin in the one who is reborn?

Much love!
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV)
“Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.”
 

marks

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Proverbs 24:16 KJV
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Much love!
 
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marks

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1 Corinthians 3:20-4:7 KJV
20) And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21) Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
22) Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23) And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
7) For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

They were making a big deal over the various people, this one, that one, to which Paul responds, glorying in men is the wrong approach, because all things are yours, you are thinking too small!

And not that only, but you are Christ's, and Christ is God's, so stop this "lateral" approach, making big deal of other people, and in doing so, denouncing others, "I'm NOT of Apollos", "I'm NOT of Paul", like that.

We are each of us servants and stewards, and we are to be faithful, but your judgments mean little to me. I don't even judge myself!

This is the context.

4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

So don't judge anything before the time comes, that time when Jesus Himself will judge. He knows. He is our judge. Not ourselves, and not each other.

He's the ONE Who knows to judge rightly.

Paul has been talking about himself and Apollos, but he's really addressing how we are with each other, what do you have that wasn't given to you? Do you think yourself grand because God gave you a gift, as if it were from yourself?

Context is king.

You judge others, lifting one up, putting one down, creating division.

We are all building the church, either with good things, or bad things, and the day is going to separate which is which.

Leave asided judging others, don't judge me, don't judge yourself, Jesus is the True Judge, He's going to do it right.

Much love!
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Proverbs 24:16 KJV
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Much love!
This has to be read in the framework of 1 John 1:9, Proverbs 28:13, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24.
 

Bible Highlighter

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1 Corinthians 3:20-4:7 KJV
20) And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21) Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
22) Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23) And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
7) For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

They were making a big deal over the various people, this one, that one, to which Paul responds, glorying in men is the wrong approach, because all things are yours, you are thinking too small!

And not that only, but you are Christ's, and Christ is God's, so stop this "lateral" approach, making big deal of other people, and in doing so, denouncing others, "I'm NOT of Apollos", "I'm NOT of Paul", like that.

We are each of us servants and stewards, and we are to be faithful, but your judgments mean little to me. I don't even judge myself!

This is the context.

4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

So don't judge anything before the time comes, that time when Jesus Himself will judge. He knows. He is our judge. Not ourselves, and not each other.

He's the ONE Who knows to judge rightly.

Paul has been talking about himself and Apollos, but he's really addressing how we are with each other, what do you have that wasn't given to you? Do you think yourself grand because God gave you a gift, as if it were from yourself?

Context is king.

You judge others, lifting one up, putting one down, creating division.

We are all building the church, either with good things, or bad things, and the day is going to separate which is which.

Leave asided judging others, don't judge me, don't judge yourself, Jesus is the True Judge, He's going to do it right.

Much love!
So Paul was in error for telling the Corinthians to kick out that fornicator among them in 1 Corinthians 5?
 

Bible Highlighter

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Do you suffer from a small man's syndrome?
I have counted, 5 maybe 6x you cried [like a baby] to @marks re my stance on sinless perfection and the fact that he "liked" my post.
You are annoying
J.
I use the Word of God and basic morality to prove my case. I did not write the Bible. God did. If you have a problem with God’s Word (See again 2 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and Galatians 5:24) then take it up with God and not me. I am just a messenger of His Word.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I give likes for various reasons, and I've also "liked" your posts before. Do you likewise have a problem with that? If I give a like it's not saying I agree with everything you say.

It may mean I liked a certain turn of phrase, or I agree with something that you'll find me quoting later in a reply, or something different yet.

Much love!
That’s misleading because his whole point of his post was to shoot down “Sinless Perfection” and therefore giving a “like rep” to his post shows your overall approval of that post. If you only liked a certain part he said then you would quote only that part of what he said you like even though you disagree with his point. In fact, why haven’t you been defending Sinless Perfection if you truly are in agreement with it? You appear to be defending the believer sinning at every turn (using Romans 7:14-24 as an excuse to sin on some level and by your saying no sin can cause you to be unborn (to lose your salvation)).
 
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marks

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Sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.
@Bible Highlighter

You asked why I "liked" Johann's OP.

I believe it is hubris to think you no longer sin. Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but does any of us really have the full understanding of ourselves, our motivations, when we are "mistaken", and when we've had our thumb on the scale, there are a million things we can do that seem innocuous but are not. That which is not of faith is sin. The good we know to do and don't do, that is sin.

Either something comes from our new spirit, or from our flesh. And if it's from the flesh, it's not from faith.

It's not just about whether we realize we are in a fight or not, but what that fight is, and how we go about it.

Spiritual Complacency is Unbiblical Too
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it is the sin of spiritual complacency. It’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability.

He also shows that we shouldn't lose hope, and think we cannot defeat sin. Sin is already defeated! Now let us walk in that victory.

I think it was a good message!

I have tried this myself with these "sinless perfection giants"...just say anything untoward, and a reaction you'll get, maybe we should, like Spurgeon, pour milk on their heads.

Sometimes simple is best!

Much love!