What was the date of the Crucifixion?

[Phoneman777]

I'm not sure what you are looking at but here is the verse in Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Here is the decree in Ezra 7. Can you kindly point out the verses that show a decree to rebuild Jerusalem? I don't see any.

Gabriel said "Jerusalem" - not merely the temple. Unlike those of Cyrus and Darius which are limited to rebuilding the temple, Artaxerxes' decree issued during his 7th year reign in 457 B.C. goes well beyond and provides for the following:

Ezra 7:15-23
Reestablishment of the Temple /Sacrifices/Law of God

Ezra 7:24
Reestablishment of Temple Priesthood officiates/Temple Office holders

Ezra 7:25
Reestablishment of Judges/Magistrates/Scribes for execution of municipal duties to the public

Ezra 7:26
Reestablishment of Constabulary/Prison System to enforce rulings and incarcerate/execute offenders

Ezra 7:27-28; Ezra 9:9
Reestablishment of the Jerusalem Wall

As you can see, the decree of Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. is the only one comprehensive enough to fulfill Gabriel's prophecy which says "restore and build Jerusalem". If we count 69 Weeks, we come to 27 A.D. when Jesus was baptized, 31 A.D. when He was crucified, and 34 A.D. when Saul was commissioned "Paul" to take the Gospel to the Gentiles.

Flimsy point???????? The point is Rock of Gibraltar solid. It could not be any more solid. AD 31 cannot be the year Jesus was crucified as Jesus died on a Friday, on the preparation day of the Passover. In AD 31 Passover is on a Monday. Cut and dried FACT.

According to JEWS who HATE Jesus, Christianity, and have fought to conceal Messianic truth from the world with their Rabbinical Curse? Messianic Jews REFUSE to acknowledge Jesus as the fulfillment of Daniel 9, some preferring the Roman catholic Futurism.

What the Jews think about this prophecy is irrelevant. We have the information needed regardless of the Jew.
Again, irrelevant. We know that the date of preparation of the Passover falls on the 14th of Nissan. The 14th of Nisan falls on Monday in 31 AD not a Friday as required. Cut and dried FACT. 31 AD is not a viable year.

I've already shown you that you got BAD INTEL, friend. Atmospheric conditions which often obscured atmospheric observations is most likely why Passover fell on Friday, and Reverse Engineering the date from our day means nothing - what matters is that the Jews reckoning of the new moon resulted in a Friday on which "Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us".

The decree in 444 BC is the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

No, it's merely a reinstatement of the 457 decree - not a new decree. Please show where anything in addition to the 457 decree is mentioned...it's not there, friend!

The 15th year of Tiberius is 29 AD not 27 AD. Just because Tiberius had a co-regency in 12 AD does mean that was the 1st year of Tiberius. AD 12 would be the 39th year of Caesar Augustus, not the 1st year of Tiberius. Secondly, 31 AD does not fulfill the lunar requirements only 30 AD AND 33 AD are viable dates. And we know that neither 31 AD nor 30 AD have a day of preparation of Passover on Friday. That leaves 33 AD as the year Christ died.

No, it's 27 A.D. as the Syro-Macedonian calendar indicates and when Christ died. Arguing that the Syro-Macedonian calendar is not the one Luke used to reckon Luke 3 is like arguing American Christians use the Jewish calendar to reckon chronological events instead of the Gregorian calendar.

 

[Timtofly]

the evening of the 7th ….the Full Moon rises.

Evening of the 6th,

 

[Timtofly]

Regardless of the year, Jesus did not die on a Friday. He died on a thursday, being in the grave thurs night and day, friday night and day and saturday night and day, completing the prophecy of being in the grave 3 days and 3 nights.

That would be a Wednesday. All day Thursday evening and morning. All day Friday, evening and morning. All day Saturday, evening and morning. He arose after 6pm Saturday. The stone was rolled away eventually to an empty tomb. Jesus was already out and walking around before the stone was rolled away.

 

[Grailhunter]

Friday evening

 

[The Light]

Gabriel said "Jerusalem" - not merely the temple. Unlike those of Cyrus and Darius which are limited to rebuilding the temple, Artaxerxes' decree issued during his 7th year reign in 457 B.C. goes well beyond and provides for the following:

Ezra 7:15-23
Reestablishment of the Temple /Sacrifices/Law of God

Nope. No decree to build Jerusalem here.

Ezra 7:24
Reestablishment of Temple Priesthood officiates/Temple Office holders

Nope. No decree to build Jerusalem here.

Ezra 7:25
Reestablishment of Judges/Magistrates/Scribes for execution of municipal duties to the public

Nope. No decree to build Jerusalem here.

Ezra 7:26
Reestablishment of Constabulary/Prison System to enforce rulings and incarcerate/execute offenders

Nope. No decree to build Jerusalem here.

Ezra 7:27-28

Nope. No decree to build Jerusalem here.

Ezra 9:9

Reestablishment of the Jerusalem Wall

It was convenient how you added Ezra 7 to Ezra 9, however, Ezra 9 is not a decree. So NOPE.

As you can see, the decree of Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. is the only one comprehensive enough to fulfill Gabriel's prophecy which says "restore and build Jerusalem".

I saw nothing at all regarding the rebuilding of Jerusalem in the Decree in 457 BC. Wrong decree. 444 BC is the correct decree.

If we count 69 Weeks, we come to 27 A.D. when Jesus was baptized,

According to Luke 3, John the Baptist did not start his ministry until the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar which is AD 29. I see nothing in the Word about the 39th year of Caesar Augustus, which would be 27 AD. Conclusion is that Jesus could not have been baptized before 29 AD. If you note that there were 4 Passovers in Jesus ministry, that takes us to 33 AD the year Jesus died.

31 A.D. when He was crucified,

31 AD does not fulfill the lunar criteria. Only 30 AD and 33 AD are viable options. And since 30 AD does not work with the Passover falling on Wednesday, that again leaves 33 AD as the year Jesus died.

According to JEWS who HATE Jesus, Christianity, and have fought to conceal Messianic truth from the world with their Rabbinical Curse? Messianic Jews REFUSE to acknowledge Jesus as the fulfillment of Daniel 9, some preferring the Roman catholic Futurism.

Does not affect the dating whatsoever.

I've already shown you that you got BAD INTEL, friend. Atmospheric conditions which often obscured atmospheric observations is most likely why Passover fell on Friday, and Reverse Engineering the date from our day means nothing - what matters is that the Jews reckoning of the new moon resulted in a Friday on which "Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us".

Everything matches up perfectly. Ain't it a daisy.

No, it's merely a reinstatement of the 457 decree - not a new decree. Please show where anything in addition to the 457 decree is mentioned...it's not there, friend!

There is no need as you can't show anything that says the Decree in 457 has anything to do with the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

No, it's 27 A.D. as the Syro-Macedonian calendar indicates and when Christ died. Arguing that the Syro-Macedonian calendar is not the one Luke used to reckon Luke 3 is like arguing American Christians use the Jewish calendar to reckon chronological events instead of the Gregorian calendar.

Thank goodness Luke said the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar.

 

[The Light]

Thanks for the guffaw.

I'll use the spit wad of truth. You use the howitzer of fallacy.

We'll see who prevails.

Truth? The truth is Chris needs to move Passover from the 14th of Nisan to the 15th of Nisan, which is impossible.

 

[covenantee]

Truth? The truth is Chris needs to move Passover from the 14th of Nisan to the 15th of Nisan, which is impossible.

The truth is that you need to determine your undetermined 70th week.

 

[Truth7t7]

The truth is that you need to determine your undetermined 70th week.

Pretty Hard To Determine A Future Event Unfulfilled

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[covenantee]

Pretty Hard To Determine A Future Event Unfulfilled

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel determined it.

So did the historic orthodox Christian Church.

So does the contemporary orthodox Christian Church.

Why can't you?

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel determined it.

So did the historic orthodox Christian Church.

So does the contemporary orthodox Christian Church.

Why can't you?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years) He Didn't, It's That Simple

2 Corinthians 11:3KJV
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Grailhunter]

Not endorsing any of these just giving some charts for you all to discuss.

 

[Grailhunter]

 

[Grailhunter]

 

[Truth7t7]

Not endorsing any of these just giving some charts for you all to discuss.View attachment 26818

I don't see that 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week and waiting on the chart?

Sorta like reformed preterist eschatology that teaches the great tribulation started in 66-70AD and it's been going on ever since for 1,950 years

 

[The Light]

View attachment 26820

View attachment 26820
What they got right: The 15th year of Tiberius is 29 AD and the death of Christ is April 3. 33 AD

What they got wrong: Basically everything else. Used the wrong decree. Used the wrong date for the wrong decree. Don't show Messiah being cut off at the end of 69 weeks among other things.

 

[The Light]

Not endorsing any of these just giving some charts for you all to discuss.View attachment 26818

View attachment 26818

What they got right: Used the right decree. Used the right entry for Messiah the prince (Luke 19:28-40). Showed Messiah cut off and a Church age.

What they got wrong: Used the wrong date for the right decree. Used the wrong date for the entry of Messiah the prince. Wrong year of Christs death.

 

[The Light]

View attachment 26819

View attachment 26819

What they got right: Used the right decree, used the right decree date. Correct year of Christs death.

 

[Grailhunter]

View attachment 26820
What they got right: The 15th year of Tiberius is 29 AD and the death of Christ is April 3. 33 AD

What they got wrong: Basically everything else. Used the wrong decree. Used the wrong date for the wrong decree. Don't show Messiah being cut off at the end of 69 weeks among other things.

If you do not mind Christ being 37 years old when He was Crucified. King Heriod died in March of 4 BC....That date and the date and activities of his successors are noted in history. So Christ's birth has to be before that. And the whole I deny history thing is an ostridge's head in the sand approach to reality......But a lot do....Because Christ is part of history, they deny Christ too.

 

[The Light]

If you do not mind Christ being 37 years old when He was Crucified. King Heriod died in March of 4 BC....That date and the date and activities of his successors are noted in history. So Christ's birth has to be before that. And the whole I deny history thing is an ostridge's head in the sand approach to reality......But a lot do....Because Christ is part of history, they deny Christ too.

I don't deny history what so ever. However, that date is incorrect as proven by Luke 3. The 15th year of Tiberius Caesar is 29 AD. Jesus was about 30 years old.

Luke 3
Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luke 3
23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


As usual, I'll have to go with the Word of God on this one.

Jesus died on April 3, 33 AD. All other dates can be proven wrong.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't deny history what so ever. However, that date is incorrect as proven by Luke 3. The 15th year of Tiberius Caesar is 29 AD. Jesus was about 30 years old.

Luke 3
Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luke 3
23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


As usual, I'll have to go with the Word of God on this one.

Jesus died on April 3, 33 AD. All other dates can be proven wrong.

I know the scripture.....Luke does not go into the customs and processes of the Romans and how they address dual rulership or tetrarchs. Do you think that Christ got a permit from Tiberius to start His ministry?