Difference between Catholic and Protestant.

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus IS His Church...

Built ON...The ROCK Foundation THAT:
“Jesus IS the Christ the Son of the Living God”.
A man leaving the man established catholic church has nothing to do with a man leaving Christ’s Church.

A man IN Christ’s Church can NEVER LEAVE Christ’s Church!

TO PREACH HIS WORD!
1 Thes 5:
[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 Gal 6:
[6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Testing your man-made gospel against your man-made gospel;

Your anti-Biblical nonsense is noted – and CORRECTED below.

Yet Another of your SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING FAILS.
(Ding, Ding, Ding, the suffix ED, is past tense, already accomplish-ED!)
Believers are WARN-ED.
Converted are SAV-ED.

As I educated you before – the Bible DISAGREES with you.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness and LOSE their security.

Similarly, ALL of the following verses preach the SAME message:
We can WALK AWAY from Christ and LOSE our security - by our OWN doing.
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[Naomanos]

And which church is that?

I have already stated that within this thread, but will do so again for your benefit.

I belong to the Episcopal church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There's a huge difference between a few bad apples and an entire global rotten orchard.

There's no need for anyone to link to Catholic sex scandals - their priests are constantly getting busted and making headlines.

And, according to insurance and FBI statistics as recorded in the book, Pedophiles and Priests, by PROTESTANT author, Philip Jenkins – the problem is FAR WORSE in your Protestant circles.

It’s obvious that you HAVEN’T done your homework– and you are outgunned here . . .

How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse ...
A History of Sex Abuse in the Protestant Imagination
FAQ: Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy - The Doan Law Firm
Abuse At SDA Boarding School? | We Represent 10+ SDA Victims‎
SDA Abuse - Crew Janci LLP: Sexual Abuse Attorneys
A Global Review Of Child Sex Abuse Cases In The Adventist Church
Finding Justice for Victims of Sexual Abuse in the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Seventh-day Adventist church sued over allegations of abuse in youth
Seventh Day Adventists and Sexual Child Abuse - SAGE Books
Lawsuit says Adventist church should've prevented teacher's sex abuse
Adventist Pastor Accused of Sexual Abuse in Office - Courthouse News
Woman claims Seventh Day Adventists failed to protect her from sex .
1 in 10 Young Protestants Have Left a Church Over Abuse
Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson
Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy
Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor
Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches
Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups
U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse
Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors
Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse
Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis

 

[theefaith]

Where does the one true church of Jesus Christ teach them to do such things? So you can’t blame the church cos of sinners but the church is the only ark of salvation!

The sacraments the means of God’s grace!

 

[Illuminator]

Here’s the real difference between us. A man is powerfully convicted of his sin by the Spirit. He sinks to his knees, tears streaming down his cheeks. He cries out to God for forgiveness of his sins and asks Christ into his life as Lord and saviour of it(or whatever particular term you might use) How will God respond? Will he say to the man ‘’I will forgive you, but not yet, only once you have been baptized in water’’ I don’t believe that, you do, hence the difference between us.

No, the difference between us is we don't make over-simplified mockeries of your beliefs.

The Catholic Church believes that salvation is an ongoing and cooperative process by which we are empowered by grace to respond to God’s call to eternal life. This belief can be summed up in the words of Paul, who says, "Now I would remind you, brothers and sisters, of the good news that I proclaimed to you, which you in turn received, in which also you stand, through which also you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you-unless you have come to believe in vain" (1 Cor. 15:1-2)
In these verses, we are told that this Corinthian community received the gospel that Paul preached and so came to believe-a past reality. We are told that they are still standing in faith in the good news and are being saved-a present reality. We are told that if they hold fast to it, they will be saved in the future as well. Finally, and yet very significantly, there is always the possibility that they could reject this Good News of salvation, that they could fall from this grace. The mere profession of faith is never enough to guarantee salvation. It must always be the outward reflection of an interior conviction.

To recap, then, our salvation is realized through these ten stages:
1) God’s Son is faithful until death.
2) The Father raises the Son from the dead.
3) The son ascends to the right hand of the Father.
4) The glorified Son pours out the Holy Spirit upon the apostles.
5) The Spirit empowers the apostles to make disciples by preaching and teaching all that Jesus commanded.
6) We must repent, believe, and be baptized.
7) We must work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
8) We must eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood.
9) When Jesus comes again in glory, our bodies will be remade according to the pattern of his glorified body.
10) Then God will be all in all.
These ten stages, traced through the words of Scripture, reveal to us not only the mystery of Salvation but that which stands at the very heart of the mystery: a loving God who reaches out to us in Christ, who in turn draws us to Himself, so that all people might be one in God, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

And there really is no need to put twenty scriptures or so up in response, I’ve read them all before. These sites exist in the fact everyone has their own particular scriptures they can quote to support their own particular views. I agree with a Baptist minster of 50 years. Although the bible at times appears to link water baptism to salvation, we are saved by grace through faith (Eph2:8) And in my view, what matters most to God is the heart. After all, nearly all of the mafia got baptised! I will leave it there, as for me, this is not a debate that is of enough importance to continue.

We agree what matters most to God is the heart.
St. Pope John Paull II excommunicated all mafia members; Hollywood still hasn't got the memo.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here’s the real difference between us. A man is powerfully convicted of his sin by the Spirit. He sinks to his knees, tears streaming down his cheeks. He cries out to God for forgiveness of his sins and asks Christ into his life as Lord and saviour of it(or whatever particular term you might use) How will God respond? Will he say to the man ‘’I will forgive you, but not yet, only once you have been baptized in water’’ I don’t believe that, you do, hence the difference between us.

And there really is no need to put twenty scriptures or so up in response, I’ve read them all before. These sites exist in the fact everyone has their own particular scriptures they can quote to support their own particular views. I agree with a Baptist minster of 50 years. Although the bible at times appears to link water baptism to salvation, we are saved by grace through faith(Eph2:8) And in my view, what matters most to God is the heart. After all, nearly all of the mafia got baptised! I will leave it there, as for me, this is not a debate that is of enough importance to continue.

Sooooo, because YOU have decided to reject the means by which God has chosen to work His salvation in us – I should completely IGNORE what the Scriptures have to say on the matter?
That’s one of the most arrogant thing I’ve ever read on this form.

You are correct abo9ut ONE thing:
We ARE saved by grace through faith.

However, faith INCLUDES obedience and surrender – which INCLUDES Baptism because it is commanded by Christ (John 3:5, Marl 16:16, Acts 2:38).
Faith is NOT simply “believing” (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6, James 2:14-24). Even the demnons “believe” (James 2:19) – but they are NOT saved because they don’t obey OR surrender . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yet churches were established throughout many regions before the 4th century, and they had scriptures. They didn't need Rome to "declare" anything. They didn't have a relationship with Rome, they knew Jesus. Do you?

OF COURSE there were Churches in other countries by the 4th century.
The Church in Rome had already been established since the FIRST century.

They “had Scriptures”??
There was no UNIFORMITY of Scripture because the Canon had not yet been officially defined.
There were literally DOZENS of Canons floating around based on personal opinion,, likes and dislikes. The Letters of Clement the Epistles of Barnabas, The Gospel of Peter, the Protoevangelium of James, the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, etc. – were ALL considered “Scripture” by many in the Early Church and read from pulpits as such.

The NT Canon that was defined and declared by the Catholic Church in 383 AD is the very SAME Canon that YOU and every other Protestant adheres to.

 

[theefaith]

When we’re you saved?

eph 2:8

 

[Daydreamer]

No, the difference between us is we don't make over-simplified mockeries of your beliefs.

The Catholic Church believes that salvation is an ongoing and cooperative process by which we are empowered by grace to respond to God’s call to eternal life. This belief can be summed up in the words of Paul, who says, "Now I would remind you, brothers and sisters, of the good news that I proclaimed to you, which you in turn received, in which also you stand, through which also you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you-unless you have come to believe in vain" (1 Cor. 15:1-2)
In these verses, we are told that this Corinthian community received the gospel that Paul preached and so came to believe-a past reality. We are told that they are still standing in faith in the good news and are being saved-a present reality. We are told that if they hold fast to it, they will be saved in the future as well. Finally, and yet very significantly, there is always the possibility that they could reject this Good News of salvation, that they could fall from this grace. The mere profession of faith is never enough to guarantee salvation. It must always be the outward reflection of an interior conviction.

To recap, then, our salvation is realized through these ten stages:
1) God’s Son is faithful until death.
2) The Father raises the Son from the dead.
3) The son ascends to the right hand of the Father.
4) The glorified Son pours out the Holy Spirit upon the apostles.
5) The Spirit empowers the apostles to make disciples by preaching and teaching all that Jesus commanded.
6) We must repent, believe, and be baptized.
7) We must work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
8) We must eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood.
9) When Jesus comes again in glory, our bodies will be remade according to the pattern of his glorified body.
10) Then God will be all in all.
These ten stages, traced through the words of Scripture, reveal to us not only the mystery of Salvation but that which stands at the very heart of the mystery: a loving God who reaches out to us in Christ, who in turn draws us to Himself, so that all people might be one in God, through the power of the Holy Spirit.
We agree what matters most to God is the heart.
St. Pope John Paull II excommunicated all mafia members; Hollywood still hasn't got the memo.

In the following what justification is Paul speaking about, for it is a justification that clearly takes time to achieve. Paul is speaking about someone already in Christ. Justification is instantaneous once someone receives salvation. ''Why does Paul ask the question. ''Doesn't that mean that Christ promotes sin?'' what does he mean by his statement ''If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.'' :
But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. Gal2:17&18

 

[Daydreamer]

When we’re you saved?

eph 2:8

I was saved when I was ten. Before incidentally I got baptised in water. How do I know I was in a saved state? Because for the first time in my life I had heartfelt conviction of sin before God, it was an immense and dramatic change in my life. I'm sure your church has explained to you, that if such a change has taken place in a persons life, according to what the new covenant stands upon you must be in a saved state

 

[Taken]

And, according to insurance and FBI statistics as recorded in the book, Pedophiles and Priests, by PROTESTANT author, Philip Jenkins – the problem is FAR WORSE in your Protestant circles.

It’s obvious that you HAVEN’T done your homework– and you are outgunned here . . .

Your utter IGNORANCE of thinking you or anyone else has a factual measurement of IMMORAL behavior of catholic priests or Protestant clerics......IS utterly irrelevant!

The FACT IS: IMMORAL behavior by ANY Cleric IS UNACCEPTABLE!

The ONLY ISSUE IS: THE COVERUP!

And you standing in the corner wielding what you think is big guns...
I highly doubt you even understand THE issue or understand WHY it has been a LONG standing issue.

 

[Taken]

Your anti-Biblical nonsense is noted – and CORRECTED below.

No, Yet again you expose your LACK of Understanding.

As I educated you before – the Bible DISAGREES with you.

Nothing new. Patting yourself on the back for Preaching a false gospel.

2 Peter 3:17

Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness and LOSE their security.

Uh huh, Clearly Peter is WARNING those who HAVE FAITH...to not fall away from their FAITH.

So? HAVING Faith DOES NOT MEAN “CONVERT-ED”!


[QUOTE[ Similarly, ALL of the following verses preach the SAME message:
We can WALK AWAY from Christ and LOSE our security - by our OWN doing.[/QUOTE]

And AGAIN, reinforcing Your Lack of Understanding.

A Believer CAN walk away.
A man with FAITH CAN walk away.
Hummm. HOW CAN THAT MAN WALK AWAY?
BECAUSE he is STILL ALIVE in his FLESH!

The WARNING IS TO MEN, Alive in their FLESH, to KEEP Believing, KEEP in the FAITH...........UNTIL THE DAY THEIR FLESH BODY IS DEAD!

RECEIVING......a BORN AGAIN SPIRIT......IS A PROMISE
( and 2 Peter ... 4 times mentions the PROMISE).

NO ONE receives their Promised Born again spirit.....UNTIL AFTER the BODY HAS DIED!

You think you have educated me? LOL
Clearly I have said BELIEVERS can fall away.
The Converted can NEVER fall away.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your utter IGNORANCE of thinking you or anyone else has a factual measurement of IMMORAL behavior of catholic priests or Protestant clerics......IS utterly irrelevant!

The FACT IS: IMMORAL behavior by ANY Cleric IS UNACCEPTABLE!
The ONLY ISSUE IS: THE COVERUP!
And you standing in the corner wielding what you think is big guns...

I highly doubt you even understand THE issue or understand WHY it has been a LONG standing issue.

Really?
The ONLY issue??

Sooooo, because I showed you othe prevalence of molestation in your Protestant circles, YOU move the goal posts so that molesting children is NOT the problem – just covering it up.

And I suppose if I hadn’t proven how guilty the Protestant sects are – the problem would have been the molestation itself.
What a hypocrite . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, Yet again you expose your LACK of Understanding.

Nothing new. Patting yourself on the back for Preaching a false gospel.

Uh huh, Clearly Peter is WARNING those who HAVE FAITH...to not fall away from their FAITH.

So? HAVING Faith DOES NOT MEAN “CONVERT-ED”!
And AGAIN, reinforcing Your Lack of Understanding.

A Believer CAN walk away.
A man with FAITH CAN walk away.
Hummm. HOW CAN THAT MAN WALK AWAY?
BECAUSE he is STILL ALIVE in his FLESH!

The WARNING IS TO MEN, Alive in their FLESH, to KEEP Believing, KEEP in the FAITH...........UNTIL THE DAY THEIR FLESH BODY IS DEAD!
RECEIVING......a BORN AGAIN SPIRIT......IS A PROMISE
( and 2 Peter ... 4 times mentions the PROMISE).
NO ONE receives their Promised Born again spirit.....UNTIL AFTER the BODY HAS DIED!

You think you have educated me? LOL
Clearly I have said BELIEVERS can fall away.
The Converted can NEVER fall away.

In a nutshell – the idiocy of your post can be whittled down to the text above in RED.
Now, I’ll explain to you why you’re DEAD WRONG.

In TWO of the passages that I posted as proof (Hebr. 10:26-27 & 2 Pet. 2:20-22) - the Greek word “Epiggnosis” is used for “Knowledge”. The usual words for “Knowledge” (gnosis, oida) are NOT used – but “Epignosis” is used instead.

Epignosis is not simply intellectual assent. It is defined as a “full, experiential and relational knowledge” – not unlike a marriage. This word is only used FIFTEEN times in the NT because if uts implications. It describes the condition of being BORN AGAIN.

Hebr. 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

2 Pet. 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

The following is a litany of Protestant scholarship on the Biblical use of the word, “Epignosis” . . .

Richard Chenevix Trench
“In comparing epignosis with gnosis, the “epi” must be regarded as an intensive use of a preposition that gives the compound word a greater strength than the simple word alone possesses” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

Quoting Culverwell, he writes, “Epignosis and gnosis differ. Epignosis is the complete comprehension after the first knowledge (gnosin) of a matter. It is bringing me better acquainted with a thing I knew before; a more exact viewing of an object that I saw before afar off. That little portion of knowledge which we had here shall be much improved, our eye shall be raised to see the things more strongly and clearly” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

He goes on to say on the same page, “All Paul’s uses of epignosis justify and bear out this distinction. This same intensive use of epignosis is confirmed by similar passages in the New Testament and in the Septuagint. It also was recognized by the Greek fathers. Thus Chrysostom stated: ‘You knew (egnote), but it is necessary to know thoroughly (epignonai).”

J.B. Lightfoot
“The compound epignosis is an advance upon gnosis, denoting a larger and more thorough knowledge...Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words
“epignosis, akin to A, No. 3, denotes "exact or full knowledge, discernment, recognition,"

The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon (page 237):
1. Precise and correct knowledge
2. Knowledge of things ethical and divine
3. Of God, especially knowledge of His holy will and of the blessings which He has bestowed and constantly bestows on men through Christ
4. Of Christ, i.e., the true knowledge of Christ’s nature, dignity, benefits
5. Of God and Christ, i.e., to keep the knowledge of the one true God which has illumined the soul

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, volume 2, page 25:
1. Knowledge as recognition of the will of God that is effective in the conduct of the one who knows God
2. Christian faith

 

[theefaith]

In the following what justification is Paul speaking about, for it is a justification that clearly takes time to achieve. Paul is speaking about someone already in Christ. Justification is instantaneous once someone receives salvation. ''Why does Paul ask the question. ''Doesn't that mean that Christ promotes sin?'' what does he mean by his statement ''If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.'' :
But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. Gal2:17&18

so you believe you’re saved the first moment you believe?

 

[Daydreamer]

so you believe you’re saved the first moment you believe?

Did you not read the post. After I responded to an altar call, a dramatic change came over my life. I had, for the first time heartfelt conviction of sin, it was profound. I'm sure your church has explained to you, according to the foundation upon which the new covenant stands, you must be in a saved state for that to happen

 

[Daydreamer]

so you believe you’re saved the first moment you believe?

BTW
Would you, or bread of life like to answer the following questions? I'm sure neither of you could correctly do so.
In the following what justification is Paul speaking about, for it is a justification that clearly takes time to achieve. Paul is speaking about someone already in Christ. Justification is instantaneous once someone receives salvation. ''Why does Paul ask the question. ''Doesn't that mean that Christ promotes sin?'' what does he mean by his statement ''If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.'' :
But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. Gal2:17&18

 

[theefaith]

I was saved when I was ten. Before incidentally I got baptised in water. How do I know I was in a saved state? Because for the first time in my life I had heartfelt conviction of sin before God, it was an immense and dramatic change in my life. I'm sure your church has explained to you, that if such a change has taken place in a persons life, according to what the new covenant stands upon you must be in a saved state

Redemption by Christ apart from us then faith and baptism are required to be justified and Christian then sanctification and when we die salvation!

eph 2:8 actually refers to redemption not salvation notice how it says past tense he saved us, and it not by our faith that is indicated. (Not of yourselves)


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved. (Salvation)

 

[theefaith]

Justification and regeneration are by faith & baptism


A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

 

[Daydreamer]

Redemption by Christ apart from us then faith and baptism are required to be justified and Christian then sanctification and when we die salvation!

eph 2:8 actually refers to redemption not salvation notice how it says past tense he saved us, and it not by our faith that is indicated. (Not of yourselves)


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved. (Salvation)

You didnt understand what I meant did you, when I said that as I had heartfelt conviction of sin before God I must have been placed in a saved state according to the foundation on which the new covenant stands

 

[Taken]

Really?
The ONLY issue??

Sooooo, because I showed you othe prevalence of molestation in your Protestant circles, YOU move the goal posts so that molesting children is NOT the problem – just covering it up.

And I suppose if I hadn’t proven how guilty the Protestant sects are – the problem would have been the molestation itself.
What a hypocrite . . .

Don’t even attempt to be disingenuous.... Molestation, Pedophiles, Murders, Rapists, Porn, Immorality, Within Any Church organization IS Unacceptable....and I said so, regardless of the fact you are too Lame to acknowledge and underhandedly imply the opposite.

The Molestation OCCURRING, is a GIVEN.
The Molestation COVER UP, is the LONG TERM ISSUE.

An individual “molested” member of a Protestant Church, has two OPTIONS to initiate a Complaint/ Formal Charge;
1) Privately Against the Church among a council of Church Authorities...
OR
2) Publicly Through the Political Governing System.

An individual “molested” member of a catholic church, has two OPTIONS to initiate a Complaint/ Formal Charge;
1) Privately Against the Church among a council of Church Authorities...
OR
2) Publicly Through the Political Governing System.


In either scenario.......The individual is going to be counseled that the “molestation” Issue will be DEALT WITH internally, via Church Authorities.

AND.......BIG surprise......
When the “molested” individual is not satisfied with how “their molestation” was dealt with.........

1) A Protestant can CHOOSE and often does, to take their Formal Charge to the Political Governing System.

2) A Catholics Political Governing System......IS THE VATICAN!
The molested individual IS SHAMED.
The molested individual IS made to FEEL it was THEIR FAULT.
The molested individual IS assured the ISSUE is resolved.
When IN FACT, the molester, is counseled to be more careful, and either REMAINS Present in their Church, or are whisked away, without punishment, to another Church, to continue their sleazy lifestyle.

Where have you been, that you don’t know the Vatican City is a Theocracy? Where have you been, that Victim catholics and catholic priests have finally come forward with their “secret” horror stories that have plagued them for years?
They were taught like you....AS...The Catholic Church is THE Church, the Beacon, and at all costs can never be shamed. Hiding dirty secrets is something the Catholic Church HAS DONE for centuries, while patting themselves on the back for their “humanitarian” charities, blah, blah.
Starving and Murdering Orphans...Raping little boys...disgusting!

Molestation is not news. Immoral behavior is not news......
The LONG LONG term dirty Catholic Church secrets, while suspect for years, IS NEWS. Own it!