Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

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Webers_Home

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Continued From No.645

All JW,s can have holy spirit,

Having the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. the Comforter) alongside is not the same as
having the Holy Spirit inside. I think if you do some research you'll discover
that only anointed JWs have the Spirit inside. In other words; the 144,000
are the JWs who've received the Spirit, whereas the rank and file are merely
associated with the Spirit.
_
 
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Ezra

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Having the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. the Comforter) alongside is not the same as
having the Holy Spirit inside. I think if you do some research you'll discover
that only anointed JWs have the Spirit inside. In other words; the 144,000
are the JWs who've received the Spirit, whereas the rank and file are merely
associated with the Spirit.
not sure where you get your theology at . but this is left out field theology way out left field
 

Aunty Jane

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I haven't been following this thread because discussions like these usually only distinguish the informed from the misinformed.....as Jesus and his disciples knew, also from first hand experience, what ignorance does to gullible people....it just confirms what Jesus said in John 15:18-21.
The ones who gave Jesus and his disciples the hardest times were those who purported to worship the same God....history repeats because satan can rely on ignorance to do his work for him.

Paul makes a distinction between the soul, spirit, and body in one verse.

“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
Well actually, if you read the verse in context, he is not talking to individuals here but addressing the body of Christ...as a group, God's elect have a spirit that unifies them, a soul which describes their faithful life-course, and a body to which they belong, and as a whole must faithfully follow the teaching of their Master.
This verse is not saying what you want it to say....

So if God has three parts or aspects to Him (like how God is three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and yet he is one being, then we also have three parts to ourselves, as well (with us being one being). We have a soul, spirit, and body; And yet we are one.
God does not have three parts, and no scripture says he does.....please find me one that says anything contrary to Deuteronomy 6:4 or 1 Corinthians 8:5-6.... Is God a split personality, or are there three gods living in one head? Who can explain this belief which did not exist in Judaism nor did the first Christians, who were all Jewish, believe that their God was anything other than what Christ told them he was.

Collectively the apostles believed what they stated...clearly and unequivocally that their "one God" was "the Father" and that their "one Lord" was Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) There was no ambiguity...no confusion about that....the confusion began to emerge after the end of the first century when all the apostles had died and the foretold apostasy was taking hold of the Christian faith.

The parable of the "wheat and the weeds" goes unnoticed because no one believes that it happened. The doctrines formulated by an apostate church over many centuries were carried over, and even after the Reformation, it failed to rid the church of its God-dishonoring doctrines. This is the only Christianity that people know, just as the Jews were practicing the only Judaism that they had ever known....those who think that the church today is the real deal are fooled in exactly the same way as those first century Jews were in believing their religious leaders and accepting their doctrines.....but what did Jesus say about them?

Matthew 15:7-9...NKJV...
"Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men
.’ ”

It happened again, but no one noticed.....Jesus said that the planting of the "weeds" was "while men were sleeping"....that can mean one of two things....it either refers to the death of the apostles who were restraining the foretold apostasy by their powerful presence....or it could be referring to the spiritual drowsiness that took over the church after the authority of the apostles was no longer there. Either way, the counterfeit "Christianity" that the devil sowed was to do what "weeds" do best.....they took over the church like weeds take over a garden, almost choking the wheat out of existence. But in the "time of the end" Jesus was to appoint a "faithful and wise slave" who was assigned to "feed" Christ's household their "food at the proper time" (Matthew 24:45)....those who have found that "slave" and who eat at his table are a united global Christian brotherhood who all believe and teach the same truth, no matter what country they live in, or language they speak....as Paul said...
"Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." (1 Corinthians 1:10 NKJV)
Now, if you think that the divided and fragmented mess that Christendom is, fits that description, then I have a very beautiful parcel of land at the North Pole to sell you.
rolleyes


The Bible most certainly speaks about God the Father; it speaks about his son whom he sent to redeem mankind, and the actions of his Holy Spirit with which he empowers those who need strength to do God's will, and for those in the first century to accomplish supernatural things in order to convince a disbelieving nation that Jesus was the Christ....but NEVER does it ever say that God is three persons...or three gods.

At the end of the day, we will all know for certain who was "doing the will of the Father" and who was only pretending to....who will be on the receiving end of Jesus' rejection when the judgment comes? (Matthew 7:21-23) Those whom Jesus refuses entry into the Kingdom have no idea that their "Christianity" was based on the doctrines of the "weeds" of Jesus' parable. They will try to offer him their excuses, but Jesus is firm. When he says... "I never knew you" he means that he has NEVER recognized those fake disciples as his own. It will be a very rude awakening for the "many" but a glorious day for the "few" who were not taken in by satanically inspired lies. (Matthew 7:13-14)

We all make our choices and every choice has consequences.
 
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Wrangler

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history repeats because satan can rely on ignorance to do his work for him.
It's unfortunate Christians so frequently accuse the other side of doing Satan's bidding.

At the very least, we should have enough respect for Christ that all who are here are Christ followers, JW's and non-JW's alike.

Love you all, independent of how like or unlike our doctrines might be.
 

Bible Highlighter

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So, you can't reply to anything I posted to you...that's OK.....the scriptures speak for themselves.....are you listening?

No offense, but I have no interest in talking about the Bible with those who deny Jesus is God (after I have shown them the truth with Scripture). Granted, while I do care and love them, I simply find their belief to be heretical and wrong --- whereby any meaningful bible discussion on any other topic will just go out the window (because they don't have the basics down correctly).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I strive to ignore Anti-Trinitarians, Hyper Grace Folk, Univeralists, and cults.
So if your belief falls into one of these above categories, and you have written me something, there is a good chance I will not read everything you write (Let alone reply back to you).
 
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Aunty Jane

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Having the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. the Comforter) alongside is not the same as
having the Holy Spirit inside. I think if you do some research you'll discover
that only anointed JWs have the Spirit inside. In other words; the 144,000
are the JWs who've received the Spirit, whereas the rank and file are merely
associated with the Spirit.
I'm not sure where you get your info, but it's skewed like a lot of people who don't seem to know what they are talking about.

Holy spirit is God's power, and it is provided to all who ask for it according to God's will. God is never stingy when his people need help to endure the trials of this life, and to stand firm in the face of opposition. His spirit is active among his people and always has been.

In the first century as in ancient times, God's spirit inspired the writing of scripture and the foretelling of future events in connection with the outworking of his eternal purpose.

The 144,000 are anointed with God's spirit as a token of their choosing for the role of "kings and priests", ruling with Christ in heaven. (Revelation 20:6; Romans 8:15-16)
Ephesians 1:11-14...
"In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will, 12 so that we, who were the first to set our hope on Christ, might live for the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; 14 this is the pledge of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s own people, to the praise of his glory."

Only the elect receive this pledge as a token of their inheritance....one they share with Christ Jesus, with whom they rule as Kings and priests for the thousand year reign of the Kingdom.

In the scriptures, holy spirit has guided people, informed people and "filled" them so that they were able to perform miracles.....Jesus himself was a mortal human, but the holy spirit empowered him after his baptism to perform supernatural fetes.
Jesus' apostles were also able to perform miracles by means of God's spirit using the name of Jesus Christ.

The promised outpouring of the holy spirit at Pentecost had an amazing effect on those from foreign lands who had come to Jerusalem for the festival. Each heard the gospel in their own language as the 120 anointed disciples were granted the power to speak in languages that they had never learned. (Acts 2:5-12) Thereafter they healed the sick and raised the dead, spreading the good news of the Kingdom as they went.

The holy spirit is not a person but the administration of God's power in fulfilling his purpose towards mankind on this earth and in the heavenly realm where he dwells.

The "rank and file" as you put it, are not merely associated with God's spirit but are recipients of it when they call out to God for help....or they need encouragement in their trials to remain faithful under test.
 

Aunty Jane

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No offense, but I have no interest in talking about the Bible with those who deny Jesus is God (after I have shown them the truth with Scripture). Granted, while I do care and love them, I simply find their belief to be heretical and wrong --- whereby any meaningful bible discussion on any other topic will just go out the window (because they don't have the basics down correctly).
The Scriptures deny that Jesus is God.....maybe you'll see one day....I don't think you would know what heresy looks like, since Christendom is built on it.
What Christendom believes and teaches has little to do with the Christianity that Jesus began.....but apparently you think its OK.
Do you really think God is in that divided mess? Is Jesus the head of something that promotes what he never taught?
dunno
 
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Robert Gwin

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Christmas celebrates Jesus's birth but JW's don't do that, and Easter marks his death with respect, but JW's don't do that either, because they claim those dates have pagan roots. They also claim many Christian churches were built on ancient pagan sites.
So what? Paganism is dead as a dodo because Christianity has over-ridden it and stamped it out, but it seems JW's are still scared of it..;)

PS- Mind you, pagans have some interesting customs like here in the Wicker Man where Christopher Lee presents a young boy to the landlord's daughter so she can instruct him in the art of love.
No doubt some christians found the scene offensive but personally i think he's a lucky little son of a gun..:)

View attachment 26359

Drop I realized you haven't researched it, but all holidays have religious roots, why do you think they call them holy days sir? satan is so very good at what he does sometimes he taunts our ignorance, can you believe they claim to have a celebration for God, but not only do they continue to use the same traditions they even call it by the name of the goddess they celebrated. easter is the goddess of fertility, when I was a child, the church we attended even had an easter egg hunt. No sir, put yourself in God's shoes, do you think He would be pleased with that? I don't. A good practice, especially when serving God, is to follow the Bible, if God's word does not ask you to do it, best not to Drop. Remember what happened to us after we left Egypt and Moses was late coming down? We were scared that God had left us, so we resorted to what we had lived all of our lives, built a gold cow, but we dedicated it to Jehovah, how did He feel then sir? You can read the account in Exodus 32.
 
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Robert Gwin

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And what about Michael? How does Michael fit into this?

Much love!

Michael is the highest created spirit being Marks. No one is higher in rank other than God sir, having the exclusive distinction of the title Archangel. He is the one Jehovah has delegated authority to, to finish off sin. He has already led the battle against satan and the demons, casting them from heaven Rev 12:7-9 thus the New Heavens are instituted, soon he will remove satan and all those who follow him from the earth 2 Thes 1:6-9
 

Robert Gwin

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Wow! What an exchange. I agree with Marks; Jesus was recurrected bodily and that is our hope for our inheritance.

I believe the Bible Wrangler:
(1 Corinthians 15:42-45) . . .So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(1 Peter 3:18) . . .For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
(1 Corinthians 15:50) 50 But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
 

Robert Gwin

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If Christmas was called Satanmas I'd avoid it like the plague..:)

see how good he is at what he does sir? You celebrate easter, still named after the goddess. Let me ask you do you participate in halloween? I know many who claim to be Christian who openly admit that is a satanic holy day, yet they hand out candy to the children, encouraging them. Truly satan is extremely talented in deception Drop. That is why Jesus stated that only a few will be on the road to life.
 

Robert Gwin

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Continued From No.635


The Society maintains that Jesus' crucified human form had to stay dead
so that his alter ego Michael could be an angel again. But that's not the only
reason the Society gives for keeping Jesus' human remains perpetually
deceased. An additional explanation is given on page 237 of the April 15,
1963 issue of the Watchtower magazine; where it's stated:

"If Jesus were to take his body of flesh, blood, and bones to heaven and
enjoy them there, what would this mean? It would mean that there would be
no resurrection of the dead for anybody. Why not? Because Jesus would be
taking his sacrifice off God's altar."

There is a really, really big flaw in the Society's theology; to wit: although
Jesus died on Earth, the altar of his sacrifice isn't located here. (Heb 9:18-23,
Heb 13:10)

Another problem is Jesus' human remains. In order to confirm that his
crucified human body stayed dead, the Society is going to have produce it. A
piece of evidence of that significance can't be allowed to just slip through a
crack unnoticed as if it makes no difference. As Carl Sagan once said:
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
_

No problem sir, I say he was resurrected back to the individual he was prior, you say he was resurrected Jesus. One of us is correct. Of course there will be those who say he wasn't resurrected at all. Guess we will find out who is correct in the future. Maybe!
 

Robert Gwin

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As is your right to abstain, but when you judge one who chooses to celebrate ( for it is not forbidden either) you add sin unto sin! And no it is not necessary FOR SALVATION. nEITHER IS HAVING A TURKEY ON THE FOURTH THURSDAY OF NOVEMEBER OR GIVING YOUR WIFE FLOWERS ON 2/14.

thise are all freeedoms one can or cannot do according to their own conscience.

We are sent forth to make disciples teaching others to observe all the things Jesus commanded, as well as the rest of the message that God has seen fit to include in His word. We have no say whatsoever in what you do. We are people like everyone else, and of course we observe others disobeying God every day Ron, but although we believe if they continue on their course, they will not inherit life, but that is because the Bible says so, not us. We are not assigned to by your judge, but we do encourage others to serve God while the door is still open Ron. Really we are no different than Noah, who preached among his contemporaries until God shut the door on the ark sir.
 

Robert Gwin

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Just as God has shown by image of Himself cast into man, that the bride was and is taken out of Him and returned to be One again, it includes the detail of many sons and the expanding of Himself to include many helpmates that He Himself should also expand His tent to prepare a place for us.

Yes sir you are very correct He has, Jesus of course did not look like Jehovah by any means, but he was the image of Him for sure. Everything Jesus did, would have been the same if Jehovah personally came, so much so that Jesus himself said: (John 14:9) . . .Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.. . .
 
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Robert Gwin

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Jesus made a specific point of showing His disciples that He resurrected in the same body He was killed in, complete with the same wounds.

Luke 24:36-43 KJV
36) And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38) And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40) And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41) And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42) And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43) And he took it, and did eat before them.

And the tomb was empty:

Luke 24:1-7 KJV
1) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
2) And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
3) And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
4) And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
5) And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
6) He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
7) Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

The reason they didn't find Jesus' body in the tomb? Because He was risen, and had gone out from the tomb.

The bodily resurrection of Jesus is established in the Bible, and John declares that to deny that Jesus has come in flesh is antichrist.

Much love!

He did that for Thomas, because he needed it to believe Jesus had been truly resurrected. Truth be told, although among some of his other apostles at the time, did you notice how no one recognized him physically? No sir, Jesus truly gave his flesh and blood in our behalf, as he said he would. No offering to God put on the alter is ever recorded as being taken back.
 
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