Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

[The Learner]

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

 

[Matthias]

.


Son means offspring: in point of fact, Christ is God's actual progeny by
means of His working in concert with a woman to produce a unique virgin
conceived baby who would be equal parts God and equal parts Man.

• Luke 1:35 . . In answer the angel said to her: Holy spirit will come upon
you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For that reason also
what is born will be called holy; God’s Son.
_

“… it ought not to have escaped our notice, that every father is more ancient than his sons …”

(Tertullian, Ad Nationes, Book 2, Chapter 12)

Tertullian - in the 2nd century A.D. - assailing and demolishing the Roman deities.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I understand why you think it is proper sir. Jesus of course taught his disciples how to pray by giving us what is called the Lords prayer. All of his prayers were directed to Jehovah. And he said clearly that whatever you ask the Father in my name it will be given you.

Although many of the passages you gave really didn't show anyone praying to him, there are a few that do make it seem that way, for instance the 1 cor 1:2 you mentioned. Calling on the name of Jesus does not necessarily mean actually doing that literally, for instance notice what Acts 10:43 says: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Notice how this was considered calling upon his name sir: Ac 22:16 And now why tarriest thou ? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

You mentioned Eph 5:19, but must not have read on into verse 20.
Acts 8:22 point blank says God.

I many times quote the term found in Rev 22:20, and I see how it can be taken that I am praying to him to come, but I am simply agreeing with the words uttered, when he said he is coming quickly, like John I in agreement say Amen! Come Lord Jesus!

We believe Paul was praying to God as 2 Cor 12:7-9
Acts 8:24 was definitely God v22
Jesus spoke about God's will multiple times, keeping that in mind it is easy to see that 1 Jn 5:14 meant God
Acts 1:24 stated the one they were praying to knew all their hearts, God knows hearts, I am not sure Jesus has that capability.
(1 Samuel 16:7) But Jehovah said to Samuel: “Do not pay attention to his appearance and how tall he is, for I have rejected him. For the way man sees is not the way God sees, because mere man sees what appears to the eyes, but Jehovah sees into the heart.”
(1 Chronicles 28:9) “And you, Solʹo·mon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a complete heart and with a delightful soul, for Jehovah searches through all hearts, and he discerns every inclination of the thoughts. If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you, but if you leave him, he will reject you forever.
(Jeremiah 11:20) But Jehovah of armies judges with righteousness; He examines the innermost thoughts and the heart. Let me see your vengeance on them, For to you I have committed my legal case.
Heb 7:25 does show he is our intercessor, however that is referring to his obedient ones correct? Would it not be logical that obedience would include praying to the God he instructed us to pray to, the God he prayed to?

I do understand what you mean, and I really cannot say for sure if it is wrong to pray to him, but I think it better to follow his teachings and direct our prayers to his God and Father as he instructed us to do, in his name of course as our intercessor (John 15:16) . . .You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you to go and keep bearing fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that no matter what you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Acts of the Apostles 10:43 says,
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

The verse does not say: “We are not telling you to pray to Jesus, but we are telling you to believe on His name when we say, “call upon the name of the Lord.’”

Your primary beliefs first come from the words of the Watch Tower. The Bible is secondary for you. Well, you even said the Bible does not exist (Which is a dumb claim). But if you let your leaders brainwash you to believe whatever they say first, then no actual verse in Scripture can prove them wrong. They will just throw a random verse at you like you did with me that really does not say what it claims. They make the Bible out to be some kind of mystery book with it sometimes backing up what they say (Based on an altered translation THEY MADE). This is why we cannot take you seriously when we discuss the Bible. You don’t believe the Bible as a whole at all. Your standard is not the Bible, but it is the Watch Tower. Your a slave to religious traditions of men, and not God.

Then again, you don’t have to convince me of your inability to explain what the Bible actually says plainly.
You will have to face the Lord Jesus at the Judgment when all things are revealed.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Continued From No.415

“… it ought not to have escaped our notice, that every father is more ancient than his
sons …”

Too many Christians are so intent upon insisting Christ is an eternal being
that they've managed to suppress the rather obvious fact that he's a human
being biologically related to Adam; and as such is temporal rather than
eternal.

Those same Christians will readily bleat that Christ is fully God and fully Man
when in reality they actually believe he's some sort of divine hominid. Some
have even gone so far as to allege that baby Jesus was an implant, i.e. Mary
was a surrogate mother instead of Jesus' real mother, and that his blood
was God's blood instead of David's. In their zeal to deify Jesus they've
managed to do a pretty good job of stripping him of his manhood in the process.
_

 

[Matthias]

.


Too many Christians are so intent upon insisting Christ is an eternal being
that they've managed to suppress the rather obvious fact that he's a human
being biologically related to Adam; and as such is temporal rather than
eternal.

Those same Christians will readily bleat that Christ is fully God and fully Man
when in reality they actually believe he's some sort of divine hominid. Some
have even gone so far as to allege that baby Jesus was an implant, i.e. Mary
was a surrogate mother instead of Jesus' real mother, and that his blood
was God's blood instead of David's. In their zeal to deify Jesus they've
managed to do a pretty good job of stripping him of his manhood in the process.
_

“The Magical World of Disney” has nothing on the magical world of theology.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Continued From No.424

Many of the Jehovah's Witnesses going door-to-door throughout the world
are honestly, and sincerely, wanting to enter the kingdom of God on Earth;
which is why I'm convinced that normal Christians really ought to know
something about "hope" as it's depicted in the New Testament before
engaging JWs in a conversation about the kingdom.

• 1Pet 3:15 . . Always be ready to make a defense before everyone that
demands of you a reason for the hope in you,

The New Testament's Greek word for "hope" in Peter's instructions is elpis
(el pece') which means to anticipate (usually with pleasure) and to expect
with confidence. Note the elements of anticipation, expectation, and
confidence.

In other words: elpis hope is a know-so hope rather than a cross your
fingers hope.

So, unless someone knows for proof-positive, beyond even the slightest
glimmer of sensible doubt, that they have a passport to the kingdom of God
locked in and irrevocable, then of course it is impossible for them to comply
with Peter's instructions seeing as they would not yet have the kind of hope
about which he wrote.

• Rom 12:12 . . Rejoice in the hope.

When people are praying for the best, while in the back of their mind
dreading the worst, they have absolutely no cause for rejoicing; but they do
have plenty of cause to fear the unknown.

Elpis hope is one of the three primary elements of Christianity. (1Cor 13:13)
It's also a calling. (Eph 4:4)

When people are lacking the kind of hope described by the Greek word elpis,
then I believe it's safe to assume that 1) God has not yet called them, 2)
they have refused His call and/or 3) they're not on His list of viable
candidates for kingdom citizenship.
_

 

[Wrangler]

No, He is not the only God

Then either you know more than Jesus or he is a liar. Which is it?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Peter an eye witness assures Jesus was killed in the flesh and raised in the spirit- 1Pet 3:18
Works build a strong living faith that will stand under pressures, Faith without works is dead-means will fold under pressures.
Christmas is filled with things off the table of demons, only those in darkness participate with anything off the table of demons. Jesus certainly would not accept it. 1Cor 10:21 God was telling all there if they partake off that table of demons, what they do off his table counts 0 for them. The encyclopedias are filled with the facts of pagan additives to the christmas celebration as is easter. The false god associated with the pagan things added to easter( Hot cross buns, dyed eggs of Pasch, from the Chaldean rites of spring), was called Astarte( one of the titles of Beltis the queen of the heavens) whose name found on Assyrian monuments= Ishtar-pronounced easter.

God view of a cult is what counts= A house divided( 34,000)trinity religions) will not stand.

You are so hung up on superficials that you cannot see spiritual reality. No one I know worsahips saturnalia, or a christmas tree. Now todays Chri8stmas is a materialistic pig fest, but there is nothing wrong with setting a day aside to celebrate Jesus coming in to teh the world to redeem men, by His death and physical resurrection!

Romans 14
King James Version

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.


Who are you to judge another mans servant????????????????????????????

As touching things offered to idols:

1 Corinthians 8
King James Version

8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


So your conscience is weak and think that a Christmas tree is somehow filled with demons. Fine, I accep tthat. Don't put up one, but don't you dare judge someone whose conscience doesn't accept demons in a fir tree to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

I agree with you that external Christendom is collapsing. However, christianity is not a denomination, but an organism composed of true believers across all teh denominations of Christendom. we are united about Jesus. we differ on peripheral issues but agree on the fundamental important issues. True believers have always had divisions based on minor teachings.

But as touching the resurrection?

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

SEE WHAT JESUS SAID??? DESTROY MY BODY AND IN THREE DAYS I WILL RAISE MY BODY UP!!!

DESTROY MY BODY AND I WILL RAISE IT UP!

So the indoctrination of the watchtower about Jesus being a life giving spirit is wrong!!

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I understand, and of course days go by, and we only see the one previous post as well. The verses you gave never once used YHWH for Jesus, that is God's name only, and all Bibles that translate it to English unaltered render it Jehovah. Many versions change YHWH to Adonai and render it LORD, with some forwards explaining that was God's name that originally was in the passage. A prime example which is easy to see the alteration is Ps 110:1 which properly reads Jehovah said to my Lord.

If you would care to give one or two verses you think YHWH is referring to Jesus, then I would be glad to discuss them with you.

Well you see that I did post

and you are still worng:

Jesus is Yahwehs redeemer and He is called yahweh of hosts- that is the bible like it or not!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is rather clear that the rich man and Lazarus was not literal, in fact Jesus gave it, and obviously he had not redeemed mankind yet, he even pointed out that no greater man ever existed in God's eyes than John the Baptist, but he was not in heaven, so how could Lazarus be? It really is about the Kingdom being taken from Israel and given to a new nation Ron.

Well look at things in reality. Jesus is not here. He is the head of the congregation, so how does he communicate with it? Before Jesus came to earth God sent ones to communicate, spirit beings, prophets, some priests were allowed to speak for Him. With the new covenant, particularly after the Bible was completed, God has communicated through anointed Christians.

I believe you and I agree that we have entered into the last days, in fact we are near the end of them, so it is rather easy to see if Isa 2:2-4 is being fulfilled, and how they are being instructed in His ways so they can walk in His paths. It was in these last days that as you can see God's people are being gathered, don't forget with the start of the last days the apostasy came to it's end. The scattered sheep were once again being fed through God's provision. Since He doesn't speak to us literally, nor sent angels or prophets anymore, the assigned faithful slave must be real, and must be very identifiable. Who feeds the sheep sir? Who is it that instructs them in God's ways so we can walk in His paths? I can say that Jehovah feeds His people very well, so well I would say that if any of us is able to partake of all of it, it would be an extremely small percentage of us. Heck I have trouble just keeping up with what is assigned.

One thing is for certain, either the faithful slave is literal or it is not. If it is literal, then it is in existence during these last days, and it should be easy to identify it. After all it is assigned to shepherd God's people, so it is necessary for us to figure out who it is and if it exists or not. It must have some importance as God's word chose to preserve it

No it is not clear.

1. No r parable actually uses a person's name.
2. Jesus never started any parable with "there was"
3. There is no comparative language as is in all Parables Words: "such as" "likened unto"
"is compared to" etc.
4. Abrahams bosom was not heaven. It was the place that righteous souls went when their bodies died.


Jesus communicate3s through His Word! Not through some magazine and little booklets. Anything that contradicts the plain clear teaching of Scripture is to be rejected fiercely, no matter who prints or says it.

My prayer is that once the church is raptured and taken home to be with the Lord, that the Jehovah's Witnesses eyes will finally be opened, see how they have been deceived and become fierce proclaimers of the gospel of the kingdom to be proclaimed in the 7years of tribulation.

 

[Charlie24]

Then either you know more than Jesus or he is a liar. Which is it?

I know nothing about the Trinity! There is nothing in Scripture for me study on the subject.

But I do know there are 3 Deities described in Scripture, but how they are One God I haven't a clue.

When John identified the 3 Deities, calling them One God, the true definition of what that really means is only found in the knowledge of the Godhead. We argue over nothing really, other than the fact that all 3 are God, they are the Godhead that Paul speaks of.

 

[Wrangler]

I know nothing about the Trinity!

Legendary inability of trinitarians to answer questions shows itself again.

Then either you know more than Jesus or he is a liar. Which is it?

Jesus said he has a God who is the only true God. You say Jesus is wrong or a liar. I'm not sure which you are saying but you know more than him, you say. I would not want to be you.

 

[Matthias]

I know nothing about the Trinity! There is nothing in Scripture for me study on the subject.

But I do know there are 3 Deities described in Scripture, but how they are One God I haven't a clue.

When John identified the 3 Deities, calling them One God, the true definition of what that really means is only found in the knowledge of the Godhead. We argue over nothing really, other than the fact that all 3 are God, they are the Godhead that Paul speaks of.

Do you self-identify as trinitarian?

 

[Charlie24]

Legendary inability of trinitarians to answer questions shows itself again.



Jesus said he has a God who is the only true God. You say Jesus is wrong or a liar. I'm not sure which you are saying but you know more than him, you say. I would not want to be you.

If you place what I said in it's proper perspective, it's easily understood.

Or you can make a big deal out of nothing.

 

[Charlie24]

Do you self-identify as trinitarian?

If you have read any of my posts you would have no doubts as to the answer of that question.

 

[Matthias]

If you have read any of my posts you would have no doubts as to the answer of that question.

I’ve read many of your posts but not all of them. I’m still uncertain about how you self-identify.

Do you call yourself a trinitarian?

Do you have an issue with others calling you a trinitarian?

Are you a trinitarian?

 

[Wrangler]

Or you can make a big deal out of nothing.

Yea, violating God's 1st Commandment aint nothing at all. He put it 1st. You say it is no big deal and God said it is the most important thing. Forgive me if I take his word over yours.

 

[Charlie24]

I’ve read many of your posts but not all of them. I’m still uncertain about how you self-identify.

Do you call yourself a trinitarian?

Do you have an issue with others calling you a trinitarian?

Are you a trinitarian?

I am indeed a Trinitarian! I remember many years ago being uncertain and reading commentary by Calvin on the subject.

I have been a strong believer in the Trinity since. He along with some others had an overwhelming case for the Trinity, in my opinion.

 

[Charlie24]

Yea, violating God's 1st Commandment aint nothing at all. He put it 1st. You say it is no big deal and God said it is the most important thing. Forgive me if I take his word over yours.

Looks like a play on words to me! Believe what you like Wrangler, you know where I stand on the subject.

 

[Matthias]

I am indeed a Trinitarian! I remember many years ago being uncertain and reading commentary by Calvin on the subject.

I have been a strong believer in the Trinity since. He along with some others had an overwhelming case for the Trinity, in my opinion.

Thank you for making that clear for me. I’ll address you as a trinitarian.