The way I view church, music, and tithing are all changing

[Wynona]

I just wanted to talk about some things that have been on my mind lately about church, music, and tithing and how they are changing. Ill try to keep it brief.

Church: It's not a building but the people. The original church met in house gatherings where more than just the pastor shared. Now I still go to a traditional church but could definitely see us going for a house church in the future.

Why? I think fellowship should go more than surface deep, I think the costs of a large building take funds away from helping those in need and more than just the pastor have spiritual gifts.

Tithing: Malachi 3:10 is abused today. Tithing ten percent was a law of Moses and Galatians explains that those who are trying to obey the law must do the whole law orbe cursed. I believe now that you are free to offer your church money as you feel led but that you should be primarily giving to the poor and other believers in need like the early church did.

The modern traditional church system has a business side with bills to pay. But I find myself questioning this more and more every day.

Music: I'm starting to believe that many mainstream Christian artists see the faith as a business opportunity and not a ministry. Many of them are signed to the same record labels that promote highly unGodly secular music labels.

Id like to branch out into more hymns and other music where I can easily discern that the music is to the Lord and not for the world.

 

[Enoch111]

Id like to branch out into more hymns and other music where I can easily discern that the music is to the Lord and not for the world.

There was absolutely no need to do away with hymn books, but chances are very few churches will abandon their strange ideas about hymns. Bible Truth Publishers do stock hymn books.

 

[amigo de christo]

Too many have long sat under men who have taught things for their own benefits .
And now we have those leading the chuches .
IF a man was raised in church whose leaders taught errors
be assured he will not onlyteach those errors but even more errors as ERROR shall only beget more error .
As leaven uncorrected will indeed leaven the whole lump .
There is a solution . HIS NAME IS JESUS , and there is a book by which one can grow wise , ITS CALLED THE BIBLE .
And i , for one , HIGHLY SUGGEST we get planted IN that bible and start learning for ourselves the things of GOD .

 

[David H.]

Id like to branch out into more hymns and other music where I can easily discern that the music is to the Lord and not for the world.

I Still prefer most of the old hymns as they are far deeper spiritually than most of the new songs... There is a place for the new music but worship should always be the goal, not self-aggrandizement. The elders of the church should always be the ones to make sure this is the case.

 

[David H.]

Too many have long sat under men who have taught things for their own benefits .
And now we have those leading the chuches .
IF a man was raised in church whose leaders taught errors
be assured he will not onlyteach those errors but even more errors as ERROR shall only beget more error .
As leaven uncorrected will indeed leaven the whole lump .
There is a solution . HIS NAME IS JESUS , and there is a book by which one can grow wise , ITS CALLED THE BIBLE .
And i , for one , HIGHLY SUGGEST we get planted IN that bible and start learning for ourselves the things of GOD .

The church is a living organism made of "lively stones"... the people. It dies when it is seen as a building and an institution. Soak in the word, and let the Holy Ghost teach you from the word and your faith will start to breathe again and life will come back to your faith... "where the Spirit is there is life". Pray the prayer found in Ephesians 3:14-21 and resuscitate dead faith.

 

[Enoch111]

And i , for one , HIGHLY SUGGEST we get planted IN that bible and start learning for ourselves the things of GOD .

The book of Psalms itself is a complete hymn book. Many psalms have been set to music, and many more could also be set to music. Then all that Christians would need to do is open their King James Bibles and sing directly out of the Bible. And since those are the words of the Holy Spirit, nothing could surpass those "psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs".

 

[Enoch111]

The elders of the church should always be the ones to make sure this is the case.

But if the "elders" are wet behind the ears, then what are you going to do? Where are all the genuine elders?

 

[David Boyer]

I just wanted to talk about some things that have been on my mind lately about church, music, and tithing and how they are changing. Ill try to keep it brief.

Church: It's not a building but the people. The original church met in house gatherings where more than just the pastor shared. Now I still go to a traditional church but could definitely see us going for a house church in the future.

Why? I think fellowship should go more than surface deep, I think the costs of a large building take funds away from helping those in need and more than just the pastor have spiritual gifts.

Tithing: Malachi 3:10 is abused today. Tithing ten percent was a law of Moses and Galatians explains that those who are trying to obey the law must do the whole law orbe cursed. I believe now that you are free to offer your church money as you feel led but that you should be primarily giving to the poor and other believers in need like the early church did.

The modern traditional church system has a business side with bills to pay. But I find myself questioning this more and more every day.

Music: I'm starting to believe that many mainstream Christian artists see the faith as a business opportunity and not a ministry. Many of them are signed to the same record labels that promote highly unGodly secular music labels.

Id like to branch out into more hymns and other music where I can easily discern that the music is to the Lord and not for the world.

So you are opposed to capitalism in the Church organisation. Is that the root of the issue?

If the Church is the people... meeting in home groups doesn't change the fundamental nature of the organisation. It simply makes it smaller. Instead it would be the mindset that would have to change and not just the size or location of the gathering. A home church can be as much a religious organisation as a mega church. Remember the Pentecost Church grew by more than 3000 in one service. A mega church by any metric.
Acts 2:41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added to them about three thousand souls.

Jesus required the tithe to continue...
Matt 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
If the tithe is spent in a worthy manner would be a matter for the collector of the tithe. If a home church of 5 decide to give to a certain cause, or spend it on good wine for communion... they would have to answer for it as much as a mega church pastor who "needs" a new jet.

Music can go away from the Church entirely. Not needed. Simply an emotional hook to draw an emotional response. Try worshipping instead of singing. Sing a new song... if you are theologically based then a off key, non rhyming, awkward string of blessing and worship to God would still be a wonderful expression of worship.

Mindset is the key. Mega church/home church and all the in between churches... why are you in that group of people and what are you doing there? If it is truly to honour God... then more power to you.

 

[Wynona]

So you are opposed to capitalism in the Church organisation. Is that the root of the issue

I'm not opposed to capitalism at all. I just see it as wrong that my church puts all its money back into the building and does very little by comparison for those in need.

We went into debt to buy $15,000 worth of carpet and chairs. We did about $200 in our last outreach.

 

[Lambano]

Music: I'm starting to believe that many mainstream Christian artists see the faith as a business opportunity and not a ministry.

Our previous music director didn’t like singing anything more modern than Charles Wesley. Okay, maybe Fanny Crosby and Isaac Watts.

 

[amigo de christo]

The book of Psalms itself is a complete hymn book. Many psalms have been set to music, and many more could also be set to music. Then all that Christians would need to do is open their King James Bibles and sing directly out of the Bible. And since those are the words of the Holy Spirit, nothing could surpass those "psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs".

Yes indeed my friend . Yes indeed . Let all that has breath praise and thank the Lord .

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm not opposed to capitalism at all. I just see it as wrong that my church puts all its money back into the building and does very little by comparison for those in need.

We went into debt to buy $15,000 worth of carpet and chairs. We did about $200 in our last outreach.

That seems so sad dear sister . Two hundred for witnessing and evangelism and fifteen thousand for the building .
it just seems so tragic dear sister .

 

[Wynona]

That seems so sad dear sister . Two hundred for witnessing and evangelism and fifteen thousand for the building .
it just seems so tragic dear sister .

Well...yes. I wish I could defend my church. But they are off the mark on that.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm not opposed to capitalism at all. I just see it as wrong that my church puts all its money back into the building and does very little by comparison for those in need.

Why would anyone think you are opposed to capitalism when you are actually opposed to wasteful expenditure of the Lord's money? Pouring the gifts and offerings of Christians into ornate buildings is definitely not according to New Testament principles. The Temple of God is now the Church. And needy Christians are a top priority with God. In fact a careful study of 2 Corinthians will show that this was a top priority with Paul and Titus also.

Speaking of capitalism, God is not opposed to free enterprise. Many of the apostles were fishermen, and sold their fish for a profit (which is free enterprise). But God is in fact opposed to greedy capitalism which desires to put all profits into the hands of a very small minority, while refusing to compensate workers generously. That is why all the good jobs and industries were shipped to China and the Far East, while industries collapsed in North America and people lost their jobs. Now the Western nations are totally subservient to China, and almost everything in the stores is made in China.

 

[Stan B]

I just wanted to talk about some things that have been on my mind lately about church, music, and tithing and how they are changing. Ill try to keep it brief.

Tithing: Malachi 3:10 is abused today. Tithing ten percent was a law of Moses and Galatians explains that those who are trying to obey the law must do the whole law orbe cursed. I believe now that you are free to offer your church money as you feel led but that you should be primarily giving to the poor and other believers in need like the early church did

I have never heard the true Scriptural law of the tithe preached from any church platform . . .

The Law of the Tithe involves a three-year cycle.

For the first two years, the tithe is to be set aside for a combination of vacation and Thanksgiving at a place appointed by God:

“You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year. You shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you, then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household."

Only in the third year is the tithe to be divided amongst the Levites, the alien, widows and orphans:

"Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you. At the end of every third year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall deposit it in your town. The Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and the alien, the orphan and the widow who are in your town, shall come and eat and be satisfied, in order that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do."
Deuteronomy 14:22-29

 

[Wynona]

I have never heard the true Scriptural law of the tithe preached from any church platform . . .

The Law of the Tithe involves a three-year cycle.

For the first two years, the tithe is to be set aside for a combination of vacation and Thanksgiving at a place appointed by God:

“You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year. You shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you, then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household."

Only in the third year is the tithe to be divided amongst the Levites, the alien, widows and orphans:

"Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you. At the end of every third year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall deposit it in your town. The Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and the alien, the orphan and the widow who are in your town, shall come and eat and be satisfied, in order that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do."
Deuteronomy 14:22-29

Good post there, @Stan B! I remember reading that in Scripture and going, "Hey, thats so different then how we think of tithing today!"

They basically bad a party unto the Lord with the tithe.

 

[Pearl]

I Still prefer most of the old hymns as they are far deeper spiritually than most of the new songs... There is a place for the new music but worship should always be the goal, not self-aggrandizement. The elders of the church should always be the ones to make sure this is the case.

I think you can tell if a song or hymn words or music was Spiritually inspired or not. And so much of the new stuff feels commercially inspired.

 

[Wynona]

I agree with your views on church music, although I do love the Gaithers. The music always contains a message.

I find the geetar and drum stuff the church has descended to intolerable, leaving my only option to have a church organ built into my home, so I can still play the magnificent hymns of the faith.

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I actually saw the Gaither Vocal Band live this year. I think my favorite song by them is "Sometimes it Takes A Mountain".That was a good time. I have a friend that got me into southern gospel.

That organ is beautiful!

 

[Wynona]

Another example of how my view on music is changing is how I'm very recently been distancing myself from Christian Hip Hop.

It's a nuanced thing but I'm starting to think that those trying to do any form of hip hop are attracting the wrong crowd and often have worldly motivations. The ones I listened to have almost all compromised their faith. So the fruit is not good.

 

[Pearl]

Another example of how my view on music is changing is how I'm very recently been distancing myself from Christian Hip Hop.

It's a nuanced thing but I'm starting to think that those trying to do any form of hip hop are attracting the wrong crowd and often have worldly motivations. The ones I listened to have almost all compromised their faith. So the fruit is not good.

We once went to a different church with a friend and it was awful; more like a concert than a worship service. Bright lights lighting the stage whilst the 'auditorium' remained dark. Music played so loud that you couldn't hear yourself sing.