Same Sex Marriage Bill

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,312
5,158
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Yikes. !

She is blaming God for her love of sin.
Not a good sign.

She must be a hard core Calvinist, as they blame God for everything.
In fact they teach that He causes it all to happen, and you have no free will.
You are just a robot, ordered to live in Lust and chosen to go to hell., unless you are one of the "predestined elect".

A total free will is illusory, for a man can only choose to do from what he knows and experiences.
The will is bound to make sinful choices as people are evil. You though as a believer can make non sinful choices.
The prevailing culture might present both godly and ungodly choices, but see the flesh is tied to that sin nature.
Don't you believe in original sin?

Jesus speaking to the unsaved says
  1. Matthew 7:11
    If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Luke 11:13
    If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

  1. Psalm 14:1
    Folly of the Godless, and God’s Final Triumph
    To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
    The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Psalm 14:3
    They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Psalm 53:1
    Folly of the Godless, and the Restoration of Israel
    To the Chief Musician. Set to “Mahalath.” A Contemplation of David.
    The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. Psalm 53:3
    Every one of them has turned aside; They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. Romans 3:12
    They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
A total free will is illusory, for a man can only choose to do from what he knows and experiences.
The will is bound to make sinful choices as people are evil.

ALL CHOICES you make are made by free will.

you are reading my post because of your Free Will choice.

Its possible for an unbeliever to choose good, and its possible for a born again believer to choose evil.
Every unbeliever, chooses GOOD by their free will when they Trust in Christ.

ADAM, originally, was the same as 2nd Adam.
He was good, not evil....he was sinless, just like the 2nd Adam, but 1st Adam chose to do evil. He was not "bound" to do it..
He made a FREE WILL DECISION to choose to do evil, while he was YET SINLESS.... Scott.
 

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
584
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Yikes. !

She is blaming God for her love of sin.
Not a good sign.

She must be a hard core Calvinist, as they blame God for everything.
In fact they teach that He causes it all to happen, and you have no free will.
You are just a robot, according to CALVINISM....pre-determined to live in Lust and chosen to go to hell., unless you are one of the "predestined elect".
I wouldn't agree her pov indicates they have a love of sin.

I also don't know them to be Calvinist.
I do know God is clear on his Elect,or, the elect of God.
As indicated by his Book of Life written before the creation of this world.

And I do know God is also clear regarding predestination. And how every decision is his, and while we plan our lives he sets our steps. All in scripture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scott Downey

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
And how every decision is his, and while we plan our lives he sets our steps. All in scripture.

"every decision is His"?

So, if you decide to kill your kids, your parents, and shoot 66 children in a class........tomorrow........ that decision is Gods?
Really?
God "ordered" those steps for you?

And God caused Adam to Sin, so that you could become a sinner? per God's "order"?

And if our mothers.. end up in Hell, "every decision is Gods'? And He decided our mothers would go to hell, but not your Dad?

Im sorry but that Theology is NOT of God., but it IS of J. Calvin who twisted everything into his pre-determined INSANITY Theology.

Its amazing to me the "believers" who have been tarnished by that Heretic.

Have you ever seen a movie ..."The Boy Who Could Fly"?
From the '80s.
I love that movie.

Well that BOY< and i tried to work out his "God determines it all"... Calvinism.
I tried to help him, but you can't reason with "crazy", and Calvin's Theology blocks clear thinking, when it come to this "pre-determination" Theology he created that infects people's minds.
 
Last edited:

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,312
5,158
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
ALL CHOICES you make are made by free will.

you are reading my post because of your Free Will choice.

Its possible for an unbeliever to choose good, and its possible for a born again believer to choose evil.
Every unbeliever, chooses GOOD by their free will when they Trust in Christ.

ADAM, originally, was the same as 2nd Adam.
He was good, not evil....he was sinless, just like the 2nd Adam, but 1st Adam chose to do evil. He was not "bound" to do it..
He made a FREE WILL DECISION to choose to do evil, while he was YET SINLESS.... Scott.
Calvinism is explaining why people make that choice to believe in Christ.
They can make that good choice but they won't do it as their evil nature gets in the way. It is why people must be born again first to see the kingdom, as in perceive who Christ truly is. God has to reveal and teach this to them, no man can do that. Hebrews 8 explains how this New Covenant works.
The unsaved have no love of Christ, they have enmity in their hearts against the true God. Enmity is extreme dislike almost hatred.
That makes it impossible for them to come to Christ and believe unless first born again.
John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
see there in the Greek means to perceive.

Matthew 16:16-18
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

John 5
37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Not first born again, mean you do not have God's word abiding inside you, you will not believe and you are unwilling to come to Christ.

John 6

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6
41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Obviously not all do come so God was not speaking or teaching them all.
Fact is only those God grants do come to Christ, he grants this by making them first born again so they can know and believe who Christ truly is. No one else will believe unless God does this work in them first.

John 6
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”


The ones who do remain with Christ, they have learned and come to know who Christ truly is. they learned this from God. His Spirit to their spirit the deep things of God. God enables this communication by making them also born of His Spirit.

John 6


66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Calvinism is explaining why people make that choice to believe in Christ.

You believe that, because you are a hyper-calvinist.
Im not one...so, i know better.

Calvin Teaches that you have no free will, and that God causes you ...forces you to believe in Christ.......IF He has decided this for you.
J.Calvin teaches that God chooses some for hell, and some for Heaven.
Calvin's teaching, according to that theology, denies .. John 3:16.. It denies John 12:32

People trust in Christ, not because God makes them believe, but because the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner of their sin, and enlightens them to receive the Lord as their Pardon, and Salvation.


Let me show you how Crazy Calvinism is...

If God causes you, makes you, forces you to believe, then How can God hold you accountable for rejecting Christ, which is the only reason you go to hell, and then the Lake of Fire?
How can Jesus come back to judge all those who do not obey the Gospel.... 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9..... if GOD would not choose them to Believe?
How can God judge you, as a CHRIST REJECTOR, and you end up in Hell, if GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO BELIEVE?

THINK !!!!

So, who is the Psycho?
GOD?
OR Calvin?

You need to think about what i just showed you., as According to Calvin, God is JUST, RIGHT, and GOOD, if you end up in Hell, as a Christ Rejector, because God would not cause you to believe.

Calvin is a NUT. A religious NUT.
There was a believer who was burned ALIVE at the stake because of the NutBar Calvin.

J. Calvin defines God as the creator of evil, and defines God as a Psycho who sends Jesus into the world and then wont let some people believe in Christ, and then DAMNS them for not Believing.

Do you hear me?
Think on that .
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrotherRoyVa79

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
584
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
"every decision is His"?

So, if you decide to kill your kids, your parents, and shoot 66 children in a class........tomorrow........ that decision is Gods?
Really?
God "ordered" those steps for you?

And God caused Adam to Sin, so that you could become a sinner? per God's "order"?

And if our mothers.. end up in Hell, "every decision is Gods'? And He decided our mothers would go to hell, but not your Dad?

Im sorry but that Theology is NOT of God., but it IS of J. Calvin who twisted everything into his pre-determined INSANITY Theology.

Its amazing to me the "believers" who have been tarnished by that Heretic.

Have you ever seen a movie ..."The Boy Who Could Fly"?
From the '80s.
I love that movie.

Well that BOY< and i tried to work out his "God determines it all"... Calvinism.
I tried to help him, but you can't reason with "crazy", and Calvin's Theology blocks clear thinking, when it come to this "pre-determination" Theology he created that infects people's minds.
How do we say we believe the Bible is God's word and then deny parts we don't agree with or like?
Proverbs 16:33 lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,312
5,158
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
You believe that, because you are a hyper-calvinist.
Im not one...so, i know better.

Calvin Teaches that you have no free will, and that God causes you ...forces you to believe in Christ.......IF He has decided this for you.
J.Calvin teaches that God chooses some for hell, and some for Heaven.
Calvin's teaching, according to that theology, denies .. John 3:16.. It denies John 12:32

People trust in Christ, not because God makes them believe, but because the Holy Spirit convict the sinner of their sin, and enlightens them to receive the Lord as their Pardon.


Let me show you how Crazy Calvinism is...

If God causes you, makes you, forces you to believe, then How can God hold you accountable for rejecting Christ, which is the only reason you go to hell, and then the Lake of Fire?
How can Jesus come back to judge all those who do not obey the Gospel.... 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9..... if GOD would not choose them to Believe?
How can God judge you, as a CHRIST REJECTOR, and you end up in Hell, if GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO BELIEVE?

THINK !!!!

So, who the Psycho?
GOD?
OR Calvin?

You need to think about what i just showed you., as According to Calvin, God is JUST, RIGHT, and GOOD, if you end up in Hell, as a Christ Rejector, because God would not cause you to believe.

Calvin is a NUT. A religious NUT.
There was a believer who was burned ALIVE at the stake because of the NutBar Calvin.


J. Calvin defines God as the creator of evil, and defines God as a Psycho who sends Jesus into the world and then wont let some people believe in Christ, and then DAMNS them for not Believing.

Do you hear me?
Think on that .
Every single person though is doomed to eternal judgement of hell just by being born into this world.

God draws out a people for His own name sake.

Acts 15
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’


18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.

See how this is written. All the gentiles whom God calls will be saved.
The rest of mankind was the world beyond the Jews.
Which is what this discussion among the apostles was all about,
how God was moving among the gentiles to save some of them. The ones who were turning to God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Dragonfly's

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
How do we say we believe the Bible is God's word and then deny parts we don't agree with or like?

You were unable to respond to what i showed you.

Let me make it clear..

Can God be anything but a Psycho, if....as Calvin Teaches.........God causes some to not believe in Jesus..... or does not choose them to believe?
See, HELL and the LAKE Of FIRE, are for the Devil and His angels and the Christ Rejectors.
So, Can God be JUST, HOLY< and TRUE, if HE wont let you or choose you to believe in JESUS, and then damns you for not believing?

Do you hear me?

You are confusing Calvinism, with the word of God.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Every single person though is doomed to eternal judgement of hell just by being born into this world.

Everyone is a sinner., and needs to be saved.

But to teach that God wont CHOOSE some.........and then because of this....they remain a Christ Rejector.. = DAMNED TO HELL.

That is God causing That, according to Nut Bar John Calvin.
So, if God causes you or your mother, or your grandmother, to not believe, by not choosing them to believe...... and then they die as a Christ Rejector, and end up in Hell then the Lake of Fire.......because of Christ Rejection.. = How can God blame them, then they end up in Hell, when God is the reason they died as a Christ Rejector?

See it?

John Calvin can't answer that question, as that Question exposes his DEMONIC THEOLOGY= "predestined Elect".
 

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
584
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
You believe that, because you are a hyper-calvinist.
Im not one...so, i know better.

Calvin Teaches that you have no free will, and that God causes you ...forces you to believe in Christ.......IF He has decided this for you.
J.Calvin teaches that God chooses some for hell, and some for Heaven.
Calvin's teaching, according to that theology, denies .. John 3:16.. It denies John 12:32

People trust in Christ, not because God makes them believe, but because the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner of their sin, and enlightens them to receive the Lord as their Pardon, and Salvation.


Let me show you how Crazy Calvinism is...

If God causes you, makes you, forces you to believe, then How can God hold you accountable for rejecting Christ, which is the only reason you go to hell, and then the Lake of Fire?
How can Jesus come back to judge all those who do not obey the Gospel.... 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9..... if GOD would not choose them to Believe?
How can God judge you, as a CHRIST REJECTOR, and you end up in Hell, if GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO BELIEVE?

THINK !!!!

So, who is the Psycho?
GOD?
OR Calvin?

You need to think about what i just showed you., as According to Calvin, God is JUST, RIGHT, and GOOD, if you end up in Hell, as a Christ Rejector, because God would not cause you to believe.

Calvin is a NUT. A religious NUT.
There was a believer who was burned ALIVE at the stake because of the NutBar Calvin.

J. Calvin defines God as the creator of evil, and defines God as a Psycho who sends Jesus into the world and then wont let some people believe in Christ, and then DAMNS them for not Believing.

Do you hear me?
Think on that .
But Calvinism doesn't say God forces faith.

God says no one comes to him unless he calls them. And Jesus said he taught in parables so not everyone would understand and be saved.

The Book of Eternal Life in the Lamb, the Lambs book of life, contains the names of all whom God predestined to Salvation.
It was written before the creation of the world.

Reformed Theology is based on what God says of himself in his own word.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scott Downey

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
584
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I did respond to what you wrote from a perspective that denies what God stated of himself and the plan of salvation.

When God said the natural mind cannot understand the things/word of God because it is foolishness to them, and the only way that changes is if God's spirit enters in, couple that with Jesus saying no one comes to him unless the father leads them, coupled with his stating he taught in parables so not all would understand and be saved, coupled with God saying we are the elect predestined to salvation, and you have God's words and plan of Salvation.
Because God has mercy on whom he will have mercy.
We are saved by his grace. We don't come to him unless he makes it so.
He has made those even for the day of destruction.

God is Sovereign over all creathion. Or he's not.

I Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Acts 3:18
But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled.

You were unable to respond to what i showed you.

Let me make it clear..

Can God be anything but a Psycho, if....as Calvin Teaches.........God causes some to not believe in Jesus..... or does not choose them to believe?
See, HELL and the LAKE Of FIRE, are for the Devil and His angels and the Christ Rejectors.
So, Can God be JUST, HOLY< and TRUE, if HE wont let you or choose you to believe in JESUS, and then damns you for not believing?

Do you hear me?

You are confusing Calvinism, with the word of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scott Downey

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
But Calvinism doesn't say God forces faith.

You are not familar with "TULIP"....?????
This is the designation given to Calvin's odd little theology regarding "the predestined elect"., and 4 other "points".
Im glad you found me, as in this way i can put some truth into you that will contradict that liar, and then you get to decide.
JC has had a lot more time with your thinking, but i have Truth on my side and Truth always Prevails.

JC teaches that before you were born, you were already pre-determined by God to go to hell or to go to heaven, and you have NO CHOICE IN THAT SITUATiON.
That is Calvin's Salvation Theology, in a nutshell.

That literally means that you can sit in a room with your grandmother, and grandfather, and mother and dad, and sisters and brothers, and look at them, and WONDER which one or 2 or 3, God didnt "pre-destine for Heaven", which means they were BORN TO GO TO HELL, according to the NUT BAR John Calvin.
That is a FACT that you have to realize, sooner or later, and sooner is better, as you dont want to be in His CULT another day.


Look at these 2 verses.
New TESTAMENT........not Old Testament, and me trying to pretend that is applicable as people will do who can't handle the Bible.

Look..

1 Timothy 2:3-4

3.) This is good and pleases GOD our savior....

4.) who wants ALL people to be SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.

Did you just read that God wants ALL PEOPLE to be SAVED?

Yes you did.

Well, JOHN THE LIAR CALVIN, does not agree.
He teaches that only the PRE-DESTINED ELECT, can know Salvation....>NOT ALL, not EVERYONE.

And Paul just taught you that God wants US ALL........ to be SAVED.

Paul teaches that "All who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"...

John in John 3:16, says that God gave Jesus to everyone.....and all are invited to believe.

Will they?
No, and if they dont, that is their CHOICE, and GOD will honor their Choice after they DIE, but He will not prevent them from Choosing, as John Calvin Teaches.

 

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
584
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
You are not familar with "TULIP"....?????
This is the designation given to Calvin's odd little theology regarding "the predestined elect"., and 4 other "points".
Im glad you found me, as in this way i can put some truth into you that will contradict that liar, and then you get to decide.
JC has had a lot more time with your thinking, but i have Truth on my side and Truth always Prevails.

JC teaches that before you were born, you were already pre-determined by God to go to hell or to go to heaven, and you have NO CHOICE IN THAT SITUATiON.
That is Calvin's Salvation Theology, in a nutshell.

That literally means that you can sit in a room with your grandmother, and grandfather, and mother and dad, and sisters and brothers, and look at them, and WONDER which one or 2 or 3, God didnt "pre-destine for Heaven", which means they were BORN TO GO TO HELL, according to the NUT BAR John Calvin.
That is a FACT that you have to realize, sooner or later, and sooner is better, as you dont want to be in His CULT another day.


Look at these 2 verses.
New TESTAMENT........not Old Testament, and me trying to pretend that is applicable as people will do who can't handle the Bible.

Look..

1 Timothy 2:3-4

3.) This is good and pleases GOD our savior....

4.) who wants ALL people to be SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.

Did you just read that God wants ALL PEOPLE to be SAVED?

Yes you did.

Well, JOHN THE LIAR CALVIN, does not agree.
He teaches that only the PRE-DESTINED ELECT, can know Salvation....>NOT ALL, not EVERYONE.

And Paul just taught you that God wants US ALL........ to be SAVED.

Paul teaches that "All who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"...

John in John 3:16, says that God gave Jesus to everyone.....and all are invited to believe.

Will they?
No, and if they dont, that is their CHOICE, and GOD will honor their Choice after they DIE, but He will not prevent them from Choosing, as John Calvin Teaches.
I'm not a Calvinist nor do I subscribe to TULIP.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,312
5,158
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
You are not familar with "TULIP"....?????
This is the designation given to Calvin's odd little theology regarding "the predestined elect"., and 4 other "points".
Im glad you found me, as in this way i can put some truth into you that will contradict that liar, and then you get to decide.
JC has had a lot more time with your thinking, but i have Truth on my side and Truth always Prevails.

JC teaches that before you were born, you were already pre-determined by God to go to hell or to go to heaven, and you have NO CHOICE IN THAT SITUATiON.
That is Calvin's Salvation Theology, in a nutshell.

That literally means that you can sit in a room with your grandmother, and grandfather, and mother and dad, and sisters and brothers, and look at them, and WONDER which one or 2 or 3, God didnt "pre-destine for Heaven", which means they were BORN TO GO TO HELL, according to the NUT BAR John Calvin.
That is a FACT that you have to realize, sooner or later, and sooner is better, as you dont want to be in His CULT another day.


Look at these 2 verses.
New TESTAMENT........not Old Testament, and me trying to pretend that is applicable as people will do who can't handle the Bible.

Look..

1 Timothy 2:3-4

3.) This is good and pleases GOD our savior....

4.) who wants ALL people to be SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.

Did you just read that God wants ALL PEOPLE to be SAVED?

Yes you did.

Well, JOHN THE LIAR CALVIN, does not agree.
He teaches that only the PRE-DESTINED ELECT, can know Salvation....>NOT ALL, not EVERYONE.

And Paul just taught you that God wants US ALL........ to be SAVED.

Paul teaches that "All who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"...

John in John 3:16, says that God gave Jesus to everyone.....and all are invited to believe.

Will they?
No, and if they dont, that is their CHOICE, and GOD will honor their Choice after they DIE, but He will not prevent them from Choosing, as John Calvin Teaches.
God can desire all to be saved, but God can also move sovereignly calling only some, leaving the rest alone.
Do you see this?
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,312
5,158
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
You are not familar with "TULIP"....?????
This is the designation given to Calvin's odd little theology regarding "the predestined elect"., and 4 other "points".
Im glad you found me, as in this way i can put some truth into you that will contradict that liar, and then you get to decide.
JC has had a lot more time with your thinking, but i have Truth on my side and Truth always Prevails.

JC teaches that before you were born, you were already pre-determined by God to go to hell or to go to heaven, and you have NO CHOICE IN THAT SITUATiON.
That is Calvin's Salvation Theology, in a nutshell.

That literally means that you can sit in a room with your grandmother, and grandfather, and mother and dad, and sisters and brothers, and look at them, and WONDER which one or 2 or 3, God didnt "pre-destine for Heaven", which means they were BORN TO GO TO HELL, according to the NUT BAR John Calvin.
That is a FACT that you have to realize, sooner or later, and sooner is better, as you dont want to be in His CULT another day.


Look at these 2 verses.
New TESTAMENT........not Old Testament, and me trying to pretend that is applicable as people will do who can't handle the Bible.

Look..

1 Timothy 2:3-4

3.) This is good and pleases GOD our savior....

4.) who wants ALL people to be SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.

Did you just read that God wants ALL PEOPLE to be SAVED?

Yes you did.

Well, JOHN THE LIAR CALVIN, does not agree.
He teaches that only the PRE-DESTINED ELECT, can know Salvation....>NOT ALL, not EVERYONE.

And Paul just taught you that God wants US ALL........ to be SAVED.

Paul teaches that "All who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"...

John in John 3:16, says that God gave Jesus to everyone.....and all are invited to believe.

Will they?
No, and if they dont, that is their CHOICE, and GOD will honor their Choice after they DIE, but He will not prevent them from Choosing, as John Calvin Teaches.
The promise of John 3:16 is only for those who believe, not the unbelieving world.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting
life.

Whoever means whoever, but the verse says nothing about why they believe does it.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,312
5,158
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Notice how this is phrased.
This describes well why we are saved. Why any particular person believes in Christ.
God from the beginning chose you for salvation. Paul is writing to believers.
Ephesians and other places say this was before time began, our calling to belong to Christ and not the others who do not believe.

2 Thessalonians 2:12-14
New King James Version

12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Fast
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,312
5,158
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
And again even more clearly
2 Timothy 1
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Who are the us? The us, are the people who end up believers. They were chosen by God for salvation from the beginning. Before time began. And that is the only reason they believe at all., due to being chosen to be believers before time began. The reason for being chosen being God's purpose and his grace, to be manifested among the nations, apart from anything people say or do. So then by grace are you saved, not of works and this is not of yourself being the gift of God, lest anyone boast.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
coupled with God saying we are the elect predestined to salvation, and you have God's words and plan of Salvation.
.

God knows who will believe in Jesus.
This is the "foreknowledge" of God.

What Calvin misunderstood was this....... That God KNOWS what you will do before you do it. "foreknowledge"< is not the same as Choosing you to do it, or Causing you to do it.

KNOWING>.....is not the same as CAUSING.

So, God KNOWS before your are born, if you will Trust in Christ... But that is not God CAUSING you, to choose.
That is God's "foreknowledge" of what you are going to do. = Freewill.

God can't choose you to be one that He does not choose for Salvation, and then send you to hell for being a Christ Rejector.

See it yet?

Calvin could not understand this, and twisted it into... God predetermines if you will choose.
See that twist on "foreknowledge"?
Calvin could not understand that God KNOWING everything before it happens (Foreknowledge), is not the same as God CAUSING everything that he already knows.
I hope you can see this., as its very important to understand, as this allows you a way out.

Calvinism is a way to look at verses, in HIS way, and people who fall under the influence of Him, mistake this as "what the bible teaches".
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,365
8,140
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
I'm not a Calvinist nor do I subscribe to TULIP.

Yet your bible perspective on "predetermination" came from John Calvin.
Its his theology., its Calvinism, created long ago.

So, what you just said,...would be like if i taught that Mary is the queen of heaven, and then i denied im a Catholic.

That does not really work, Blue Dragonfly.