Who are the sons of God and the daughters of men

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michaelvpardo

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Genesis 6:1-8
When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.


Many people believe that the sons of God were fallen angels who fornicated and had children with female human beings thus making the world so evil that God decided to destroy civilization. Could this really be? Could spiritual being really fornicate with human beings even though Paul taught us that heavenly bodies have a different splendor than human bodies in 1 Corinthians 15? Would God really allow this to happen? I believe not

I believe that the sons of God were the faithful line of God and that the daughters of men were the daughters of the unfaithful line of Cain.

In the previous chapters of Genesis we see that the descendants of Seth were faithful to God while the descendants of Cain were not. All we hear about the descendants of Cain is the great accomplishments they made but Seth's descendants were great men of God. The earth seamed quite peaceful up until this time so what changed?

God constantly warns the faithful to not dwell with the unfaithful throughout the Old Testament and there is a reason for this which is to keep the faithful from being corrupted. We read that the sons of God were only attracted to the daughters of men because they are beautiful not because they loved them so the reason why they fornicated with them was for lust not love.

Over time while dwelling with the unfaithful the faithful conformed to the ways of the unfaithful until the faithful came down to just one man Noah. The ways of the Lord was lost and the offspring of these people lived for themselves not for the Lord as the whole world became filled with wickedness and this was the reason that God decided to destroy almost all of the human race with the great flood.

God protected the line of the faithful and continued to do so throughout the bible. I believe that this kind of serves as warning to the church and will be the same reason that God will destroy the human race in the future by fire as the church is slowly conforming to the ways of the world.
I suppose that this is as good an explanation for the verses as any, but doesn't explain how the Nephilim came into existence. Why would the offspring of faithful and murderous lineages become a different race? Why would they be exceptional and described as mighty men or men of reknown? And why would the gentiles have similar stories about their gods producing offspring with humans, like Achilles and Heracles?

What's more, why would we have accounts of both the preincarnate Lord and angels appearing in physical bodies, eating and drinking, etc., unless they could manifest as indistinguishable from men?
 
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Marty fox

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I suppose that this is as good an explanation for the verses as any, but doesn't explain how the Nephilim came into existence. Why would the offspring of faithful and murderous lineages become a different race? Why would they be exceptional and described as mighty men or men of reknown? And why would the gentiles have similar stories about their gods producing offspring with humans, like Achilles and Heracles?

What's more, why would we have accounts of both the preincarnate Lord and angels appearing in physical bodies, eating and drinking, etc., unless they could manifest as indistinguishable from men?

The Lord and angles are different from people and their accounts recorded in the bible were for a certain purpose.

Lets see what the bible says about these people.

Genesis 6:3-4
3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

All that is says is that they were mortal. It doesn't say that they were a different race as we even still have giant people in our world today from all different races.

The other thing to see in these verses is that the Nephillim were on the earth before and after when the sons of God had children with the daughters of humans. Thus they were not the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of humans the bible shows us that.
 

Marty fox

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4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

The thing to see in these verses is that the Nephillim were on the earth before and after when the sons of God had children with the daughters of humans. Thus they were not the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of humans the bible shows us that.
 

michaelvpardo

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The Lord and angles are different from people and their accounts recorded in the bible were for a certain purpose.

Lets see what the bible says about these people.

Genesis 6:3-4
3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

All that is says is that they were mortal. It doesn't say that they were a different race as we even still have giant people in our world today from all different races.

The other thing to see in these verses is that the Nephillim were on the earth before and after when the sons of God had children with the daughters of humans. Thus they were not the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of humans the bible shows us that.
Actually the verse explains their existence, not that they just magically appeared some time after Adam.
The word Nephilim identifies them as a different race, and you provided no explanation for them being extraordinary in any way.
 

Marty fox

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Actually the verse explains their existence, not that they just magically appeared some time after Adam.
The word Nephilim identifies them as a different race, and you provided no explanation for them being extraordinary in any way.

I didn’t say that they magically appeared just when they were and I don’t know why they are extraordinarily because the bible doesn’t say so that would just be my guess not scripture.

I would just think that they were born just like regular people give birth to giant size people today.
 

michaelvpardo

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I didn’t say that they magically appeared just when they were and I don’t know why they are extraordinarily because the bible doesn’t say so that would just be my guess not scripture.

I would just think that they were born just like regular people give birth to giant size people today.
They were renowned for being ordinary?
Gigantism (today) is a rare and abnormal condition caused by a chromosomal nondisjunction that usually leads to premature death. There are ethnic groups like the Dinka of Africa that are very tall, and others like the Ba'mbuti that are very small, but they all remain in the natural phenotypic expression of the race.
The description of the Anakim, especially that given for Goliath, goes beyond that normal range of human phenotypic expression. I'm unaware of any physical description of the Nephilim, but the "im" ending of the nouns refers to something more than tribal differences. And in regard to the description of Goliath and his weapons, the cubit and the hands breath are subjective measurements, but there had to have been some standard for comparison in order for civil engineering to be accomplished, for worked stone to fit together in solid structures built without mortar (and these accomplishments existed, some with ruins still intact.)
If the Nephillim were indeed hybrids of 2 races, human and something else, and were themselves capable of reproduction, then their additions to the genome could persist in the human population, but most interspecies hybrids are infertile. Fertility is actually what differentiates between species.
The scriptures, when referring to creatures in the heavenly places, may not always be referring to angels or devils. This is an assumption that we make. We have biblical descriptions of Seraphim and Cherubim and assume that they are "classes" of angels because they are mentioned in scripture as creatures in the throne room of God, but the Bible does not elaborate upon the details of heaven's occupants, or if they have a common nature.

Scripture does speak to a variety of functions in the heavenly places:
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12

While these may all be angels of differing levels of authority and may share a common nature, scripture is silent to the extent that the information is relevant to the testimony of Jesus Christ. The few "pictures" we have of God's throne room (from scripture) and the creatures associated with it could be allegorical or visions intended to represent concepts, but they aren't fiction and describe a variety of physical appearance. A reasonable assumption would be that variations in appearance reflect differences in nature, as that's the case with species on Earth.
 

Timtofly

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Actually the verse explains their existence, not that they just magically appeared some time after Adam.
The word Nephilim identifies them as a different race, and you provided no explanation for them being extraordinary in any way.
Nephilim is not a proper noun. The word means giants. Why are you making giants a race of humans? The sons of God were giants compared to Adam's dead corruptible flesh.
 

Waiting on him

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1 John 3:1 KJV
[1] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

so we are now on the 429th post and iam very surprised to see that not one has figured out that there were no sons of God prior to the first,,,, Jesus, whom declared the Father to the world.
 

RLT63

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I don't know where you've gotten that definition, but it wasn't from Strong's Concordance. The original language (supposedly) refers to the prematurely born.
The Strong's reference says bully or tyrant- giant
 

michaelvpardo

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The Strong's reference says bully or tyrant- giant
I stand corrected, the Anakim are identified as derived from the Nephilim in Numbers 13:33. I concerned myself with and made a study of the verses from Genesis over a decade ago and apparently confused my reference material. Thank you for pointing this out.
My main reference source to the Hebrew is Strong's Concordance and now I have no clue where this other definition came from. (Perhaps it was just one of the documentaries I watched about giants and latched on to.) I'm going to have to search this out again, but it doesn't really alter the argument.
While interspecies crossbreeds can demonstrate "hybrid vigor" and be larger, healthier, and more vigorous than the original parents, they usually are incapable of reproducing. And with respect to the thread, the "faithful" lineage of Adam is not a different biological species from Cain's lineage, and intermarriage wouldn't create hybrid vigor (or giants.)
This presents us with another theological problem though. Either the Anakim were descendants of Noah, or the result of "crossbreeding" after the flood.
Just a quick search for the etymology of the word Nephilim gave a few sources that say the word meant "fallen ones." The idea that this referred to crossbreeds with angels apparently came from Jewish theology, but the given explanation for the name sounds imaginative. I can however understand how someone could get to "preborn" or born out of time from the definition fallen one. The actual meaning remains widely debated.
 
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michaelvpardo

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1 John 3:1 KJV
[1] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

so we are now on the 429th post and iam very surprised to see that not one has figured out that there were no sons of God prior to the first,,,, Jesus, whom declared the Father to the world.
So Adam the Son of God as described in Luke's gospel is a mistranslation?
 

michaelvpardo

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The Lord and angles are different from people and their accounts recorded in the bible were for a certain purpose.

Lets see what the bible says about these people.

Genesis 6:3-4
3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

All that is says is that they were mortal. It doesn't say that they were a different race as we even still have giant people in our world today from all different races.

The other thing to see in these verses is that the Nephillim were on the earth before and after when the sons of God had children with the daughters of humans. Thus they were not the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of humans the bible shows us that.
Technically, there's only 1 race that describes humanity, the human race. Race is an artificial distinction used to divide humanity into superior and inferior groupings. If you believe that Noah's descendants repopulated a world where all flesh was destroyed, and that reproduction is by "kind" then humanity is one "kind" not multiple kinds and of one race, not many races. We classify "races" by common phenotypic traits, but those same traits as expressed, are actually observed among multiple "races" but in different proportions. Eg. The aboriginal Australians have dark skin pigmentation, some Indian tribes do as well, but neither are the same "race" as native Africans. Almond shaped eyes are common among Asians, but not unique to Asians, nor the rule for Asians (some Asians appear indistinguishable from Caucasians.) We (humanity) have used "racial" distinctions to justify treating other "races" as less than our own, or subhuman.
 

RLT63

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I stand corrected, the Anakim are identified as derived from the Nephilim in Numbers 13:33. I concerned myself with and made a study of the verses from Genesis over a decade ago and apparently confused my reference material. Thank you for pointing this out.
My main reference source to the Hebrew is Strong's Concordance and now I have no clue where this other definition came from. (Perhaps it was just one of the documentaries I watched about giants and latched on to.) I'm going to have to search this out again, but it doesn't really alter the argument.
While interspecies crossbreeds can demonstrate "hybrid vigor" and be larger, healthier, and more vigorous than the original parents, they usually are incapable of reproducing. And with respect to the thread, the "faithful" lineage of Adam is not a different biological species from Cain's lineage, and intermarriage wouldn't create hybrid vigor (or giants.)
This presents us with another theological problem though. Either the Anakim were descendants of Noah, or the result of "crossbreeding" after the flood.
Just a quick search for the etymology of the word Nephilim gave a few sources that say the word meant "fallen ones." The idea that this referred to crossbreeds with angels apparently came from Jewish theology, but the given explanation for the name sounds imaginative. I can however understand how someone could get to "preborn" or born out of time from the definition fallen one. The actual meaning remains widely debated.
I think this happened again after the flood
Gen 6:4

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I think God had to take drastic action to make it stop happening
Jde 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jde 1:7

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
 

michaelvpardo

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No, not at all, many today misunderstand who Jesus was.
Apparently so do you. Jesus was, is, and will be. He's the alpha and the omega, the same yesterday, today, and forever. Describing Him in the past tense is commonly an error of speech given that we can only perceive the moment that we're in, but if you think about what you write, referring to God in the past tense indicates that you don't really believe that He is. So, I'll ask you plainly, is Jesus God?