Who are the sons of God and the daughters of men

[quietthinker]

Humans are represented by the word "men" in the verse. Clearly the Sons of God are meant to be others and not surprisingly, the OT always uses the term "Sons of God" for angels. The fact that the NT speaks of fallen angels as having left their habitation and sinned and for women to be wary of angels further strengthens that the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 is angels.

I think you are joining the dots precariously, further compounding a misunderstanding by applying Jude's text of, 'and the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation.....? Jude 1:6 for the purpose of validating the idea that fallen angels cohabited with humans?

 

[Timtofly]

....and Adam was the son of God.

The key word is "was". The future is in Christ, not in Adam.

1 John 3:1-2

"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

We are sons of God because of Christ, not because we are descendants of Adam.

 

[quietthinker]

We are sons of God because of Christ, not because we are descendants of Adam.

I can roll with both; depending whether the window is open or closed.

 

[Timtofly]

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Here we see men and their daughters contrasted with the Sons of God. Clearly the Sons of God are not men.

They are humans created on the 6th day. The sons of God were not descendants of Adam. Noah in the ark narrowed down those who repopulated the earth to only Adam's dead corruptible flesh. None of the Sons of God directly, came through other than the females who could have had genetics from those offspring mixed into Adam's direct line of descendants.

So you cannot look at it as just males on one side and females on the other. In the ark, the Males were direct descendants of Adam, but the females were not.

 

[quietthinker]

In the ark, the Males were direct descendants of Adam, but the females were not.

well there ya go. A convenient case to diss the girls!

 

[Timtofly]

Adam wasn't alive in Gen 6.

Lamech, Noah's father was 56 when Adam died. Genesis 5 is not necessarily the account of every first born son. It is the account of the son born who would arrive at Noah as a descendant of Adam. I would put Methuselah as the generation that was pronounced as being:

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

It was Methuselah who would have had daughters and even sons before Lamech was born. Methuselah was 187 when Lamech was born. Obviously not his firstborn. Perhaps not even the first born son. Lamech was the Father of Noah. Noah was born when Lamech was 182. Notice Genesis 5:28-29:

"And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed."

So Noah was not necessarily the firstborn, nor even the firstborn son. But Noah was a direct descendant of Adam. Methuselah lived for 969 years. Adam was still alive and still having children when Methuselah was born. But the next 900 years during Methuselah's life, the sons of God had offspring as well for hundreds of years. It was not the generation created on the 6th day, but their offspring started to procreate with Adam's offspring. But it was only Noah and his 3 sons born when Noah was 500 years old who were spared. Noah had no daughters on the ark, so no males came on board not from Adam's flesh. Noah's wife, nor the other 3 females had to be direct descendants of Adam and Eve. They could have been from those sons of God created on the 6th day. It was Adam's flesh that carried death and decay. The sons of God had permanent incorruptible physical bodies, that just became more corrupt with each generation mixed into Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

It was Adam who disobeyed God. It was just natural that Adam's flesh would corrupt the whole earth eventually. The sons of God could not remove Adam's dead flesh with their own genetic offspring.

 

[Timtofly]

well there ya go. A convenient case to diss the girls!

The girls were the good ones, no?

You are making the wrong assumptions here. We are talking about pre-flood conditions not post flood with only sin and death in the world.

You think Adam's flesh kept getting better and better and the sons of God kept getting worse.

God always chooses us out of sin. Not because we are self righteous.

 

[ewq1938]

I think you are joining the dots precariously, further compounding a misunderstanding by applying Jude's text of, 'and the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation.....? Jude 1:6 for the purpose of validating the idea that fallen angels cohabited with humans?

What else could they have done so wrong they are locked up waiting to be judged and sent to fire? Did they leave heaven and come to the Earth to gather sticks on the Sabbath? Maybe they stole some food or told a lie? Why does the NT warn women about covering up because of the angels?

Obviously the dots were correctly connected.

 

[quietthinker]

The girls were the good ones, no?

You are making the wrong assumptions here. We are talking about pre-flood conditions not post flood with only sin and death in the world.

You think Adam's flesh kept getting better and better and the sons of God kept getting worse.

God always chooses us out of sin. Not because we are self righteous.

I think we have a case in our communication of ships passing in the night.
Do you feel like unraveling this knot?

 

[quietthinker]

What else could they have done so wrong they are locked up waiting to be judged and sent to fire? Did they leave heaven and come to the Earth to gather sticks on the Sabbath? Maybe they stole some food or told a lie? Why does the NT warn women about covering up because of the angels?

Obviously the dots were correctly connected.

well, one thing is certain, self justification and lack of enquiry keeps you where you are.

 

[ewq1938]

well, one thing is certain, self justification and lack of enquiry keeps you where you are.

Lack of inquiry isn't a fault of mine as I have clearly looked into this more than you have.

 

[Timtofly]

I think we have a case in our communication of ships passing in the night.
Do you feel like unraveling this knot?

Who died when he disobeyed God?

Adam's descendants were no longer sons of God. Whose offspring became corrupted by whom?

Can a bunch of good apples turn a rotten apple good?

Does no one see that only Adam's flesh gets to live in sin without instant death for being born into sin? Even the Greeks seem to have grasped the concept that as humans, we are the living dead.

The second birth is not a resurrection from the dead. It is a quickening of a dead person to walk in the newness of a spiritual life. This newness of life still has to put up with a dead corruptible physical body. The females on the ark were representative of a physical body not yet made corruptible, but would become more corrupted over time. That is why giants were still possible after the Flood. Giants born of Adam's sin nature, but still the genetics of the sons of God. Adam's descendants lacked any physical make up of a son of God, because Adam did physically die and instead of having a permanent incorruptible physical body, he immediately was given a temporal corruptible physical body. This body was still compatible with a permanent incorruptible physical body, but was a body of death instead of a body of life.

It is this dead body that is considered flesh that cannot enter Paradise. But a permanent incorruptible physical body can indeed enter Paradise. That is Adam's original form when he lived in Paradise. That is the part of Daniel's 70 weeks that most tend to gloss over. Daniel's 70 weeks brings to an end Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Not just that of Israel, but through Israel the whole world would be changed.

 

[Waiting on him]

Scripture teaches that Jesus was the only begotten of his Father.

Sole!

 

[Davy]

Scripture teaches that Jesus was the only begotten of his Father.

Sole!

And that is about God being born in the flesh as Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God The Son, and was never created, period, which is why Jesus claims 'the first and the last' Title of God in the Book of Revelation.

So the 'begotten' idea is only about Jesus (as Immanuel "God with us") being born in the flesh through Mary's womb. He did not stop being God by being born in the flesh.

 

[Waiting on him]

God has no beginning or end.

 

[Waiting on him]

And that is about God being born in the flesh as Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God The Son, and was never created, period, which is why Jesus claims 'the first and the last' Title of God in the Book of Revelation.

So the 'begotten' idea is only about Jesus (as Immanuel "God with us") being born in the flesh through Mary's womb. He did not stop being God by being born in the flesh.

God has no beginning or end.

 

[Waiting on him]

And that is about God being born in the flesh as Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God The Son, and was never created, period, which is why Jesus claims 'the first and the last' Title of God in the Book of Revelation.

So the 'begotten' idea is only about Jesus (as Immanuel "God with us") being born in the flesh through Mary's womb. He did not stop being God by being born in the flesh.

Also, there is no such thing as God the son.

 

[Davy]

God has no beginning or end.

That's correct, which if you had read ALL of my post, you would have understood that also is what I was saying when Jesus applied the "first and the last" (Alpha and Omega) clause from The Old Testament to Himself.

I was literally rebuking the idea some have against Christ being God The Son, when 'they'... abuse the idea of Christ being the Only Begotten Son. Their false thinking of 'begotten' is how they try to show that means Lord Jesus was 'created' and thus not God, when that idea is FALSE.

The 'begotten' idea in His title of John 3 simply is about Christ as God come in the flesh. That is Biblically how that 'begotten' idea is meant in Scripture.

 

[Davy]

Also, there is no such thing as God the son.

Well YES there is!

Jesus is Immanuel per Isaiah 7, which in Matthew 1:23 that name is defined as "God with us". And in Isaiah 9, Jesus is called "... The mighty God, The everlasting Father, ..." (Isaiah 9:6).

 

[Waiting on him]

Well YES there is!

Jesus is Immanuel per Isaiah 7, which in Matthew 1:23 that name is defined as "God with us". And in Isaiah 9, Jesus is called "... The mighty God, The everlasting Father, ..." (Isaiah 9:6).

Was the northern and southern kingdom at war in the first century?