Noooooo I am the audience!we can tag team i have retired .its your turn how ever you want it to Go
Truth Be Told
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Oh but I am a bit slow....I flipped back to page 2 scene 24 it was Grailhunter and Charlie24...then in scene 33 Ezra steps in...so it's been a 3 stranded debate all along!
LOL Still a show. Some of these guys need to find a religion that sinning is acceptable, rewarded, and protected.
Yahweh did not send His Son to start a religion of sin and sin some more.
It is an absurdity that I generally do not run into unless it is drug related.
Paul and John are speaking of what should be the goal of all born-again believers, reigning in the practice of sin by the power of the Holy Spirit! If you reach the goal of no known sin in your life, you have stopped the practice of sin, exactly where God wants you so He can bless you and use you for His Glory.
We are human and will never stop making bad judgments at times, but we can surrender and overcome known sin in our lives.
Paul makes it clear in Rom. 6 that Grace is not a license to sin, if anyone has that attitude, I doubt their salvation. Christ set us free from the bondage of sin, those who will believe. So if you have practicing sin in your life it is by choice. This is what Paul and John are saying that you don't have to sin, you have a new nature in Christ, the old nature is nailed to the Cross.
It's ok if you don't think I'm saved, I expect that from someone who thinks they can become sinless in this life. I have seen it time and time again. So I keep trying to reach the legalist mind with Grace.
Grace, like anything else can be abused if the heart is not in the right place with Christ. There are some who do abuse it and all of us who trust in His wonderful Grace take the wrap for it. But again that is ok, we know where we would be if that Grace was not available.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
First off it is above my paygrade to determine if you are saved.
Secondly, no one is sinless.
Third, the last thing I am is a legalist.
Fourth, whether you like it or not, you can sin your way to hell. Say hello to all the Christians that thought that they could sin all they wanted and go to heaven.
Yeshua knows that we are sinners....we cannot be perfect. That does not mean that we cannot try. He expects us to try....aim small and miss small. He went to the cross to provide a workable scenario for sinners, not to start a religion of sin. Be good and do good. Why? What else would God expect from Christians.
Workout your salvation with fear and trembling. Walk with Christ everyday of your life. Do good to all that Yeshua puts in your path on your journey.
You might be surprised as Paul wrote to the Christian churches and warned them....there will be Christians in hell....but it was by their own accord....How many ways for a Christian to go to hell? The Protestants have pretty much made Good Deeds an irrelevant point because of the concept of works mistranslated in the Bible. Look at the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats....look at what happened to those people that did not help those in need. Good Deeds cannot get you to heaven....not sinning will not get you to heaven. Faith in Yeshua is the only Way.....But the point that gets missed is that Good Deeds will not get you to heaven but not doing them will get you to hell. Be good and do good....is a must. Never perfect but ever trying our best....There will be a lot of people in heaven that are not perfect....But those in heaven tried their best....some better than others....but that is where honest intent is the true measure of a person....repentance is nothing without the honest intent to do better.
In the end we will be judged on what we did and what we did not do. You are what you do....as Yahweh said in the beginning....“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” Genesis 4:7 If you live a sinful lifestyle, you are fool if you think you will go to heaven. How can you get forgiveness for something that is your life, you have become sin.
You have been given the scriptures....if you ignore them....not my problem. I am not a preacher, my ministry is the Johnny Appleseed of truth. No stress on me. Preachers have a lot of stress, God love 'em. I plant seeds of truth.... from there it is up to you and God. As Christ said some seeds fall on bad ground....some are not looking for truth....they want to believe what makes them feel good. Reality is shocking! Truth is shocking! Some people do not want to know the truth....some people do not like the truth. Not my problem.... believe what you want....my ministry and responsibility is to give the truth....my responsibility is not to persuaded people to believe the truth....that is up to the Holy Spirit. Christianity is easy to understand if you do not care what the truth is....just live by it. Walk with Christ everyday and do your very best....He cannot expect any more than that.
Christianity has become a don't doers religion...thinking your rightness with God is based on what you don't do....and that is hard to keep up with because over the last two millenniums people have come up with a lot of man-made sins. They have made the Christian life like a minefield of real sins and fake sins....so much so that people step on real sins trying to avoid fake sins. Learn what really is sinful and do your best not to commit them and do not judge people on fake sins. Exhaust yourself doing good and Christ will be there when you trip and fall. You live like this and He will pick you up, dust you off and send you on your way because you please Him by the way you live. Be good and do good the best you can should be your goal...because that is what Yeshua expects you to do....you can not fool Him and He is not a fool. Do not test the Grace that He died for or you will pay the price.
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You say that we should do good, and I agree. It is how we go about doing good that matters!
Doing good, the things that please God, must be done through us by the Holy Spirit. If you are led by the Spirit, as Paul said, it is the Spirit that plans the good we do, it's not of our own doings. Total surrender to Christ is the only way good things can be done through us by the Spirit.
Paul told us that if the works of man do not pass the test of fire and they are burned up, they are still saved despite the fire burning their works, that is if it's true faith. 1 Cor. 11-15.
So we see that works have no bearing on salvation, that being all by faith. Our works will determine our rewards.
Your statement in the bold "But the point that gets missed is that Good Deeds will not get you to heaven but not doing them will get you to hell," is not correct.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I disagree, we have to decide to do good and commit to it. We are not robots, free will is the rule.
This I agree.
Again the misunderstanding of works....Works of the law or religious customs do not save. Faith in Christ is the Way! But not doing doing Good Deed for others will get you to hell. Again read the parable of the Sheep and the Goats and heed the warning.
Again as I have said, Good Deeds do not get us to heaven, but lack of them will get us to hell.
It is the absolute truth from Christ's own lips. Heed the warning or pay the price.
I agree that all who are saved will have a desire to do good works.
At the same time, Paul has shown us that man can stand before God with his works all burned up and still enter into God's rest with just his faith in Christ.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Again a misunderstand of works....welcome to the proud crowd....a lot misunderstand that scripture. What "works" do you think Paul is talking about? Most of the time when the word "works" occurs in the correct translation, he is talking about the works of the Law. Which will do nothing for you. Again read the parable from Christ's own lips....read and heed or pay the price. What happened to the people that did not help those in need?....there is no mystery.
Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 3:11-12 that these works are the works built on the foundation of Jesus Christ.
That includes all works of any kind. All works are built on the fact that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world.
Amen, no man, and that includes self because if your truly reborn God insures you will "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13). If He is not "working in you," your not saved yet.
ty my entire point was. what does scripture say not can you or you cant. the Bible tells us how to live and what do if we fail.
man likes to add his part . in another forum a person posted this
That blood "passes over you" while you hang on the cross with Christ at your immersion into Him and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-6)
The end result?
"For he that is dead is freed form sin." (Rom 6:7)
Christian Tony B
Member
Jesus indicated we must be born again in order to partake of salvation. There's a few other things He said we also need to do to keep our salvation safe, to secure it.
In my personal experience, when I was born again there was no one around to baptise me in water, but I've no doubt that God baptised me with His Holy Spirit at that time. Thank you Lord.
I believe that 'if we hear His voice, and follow after Him', we will be saved, irrespective of whether we've been baptised in water or not. That's what my, and others I have come across, experience has been, and what I'm going to strive to continue to do every day.
Indeed, I fear that for the many who because of their parents want to adhere to a denominational tradition, and were baptised in water as a child, have erroneously continued in the belief that those, along with their adherence to other religious ritualistic observances including sitting in a pew for an hour or two on the weekends, has somehow sanctified them and continues to put them in good stead with God irrespective if they conduct their lives in an ungodly way otherwise. Seems like we forget the requirement we are to deny ourselves, shrug off the temptation to sin and practise lawfulness (righteous behaviour) to help secure our salvation.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Not true
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. Romans 4:2
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, 1st Timothy 1:9
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Galatians 3:2
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Galatians 3:10
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. Galatians 4:16
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Romans 3:28
Most of the time when works are mentioned, it is works of Law. Christ or the Apostles are not going to say that, You will not get to heaven by doing good for people in need! or Good Deeds are not worth the effort. Of course you have the conversation in James
James 2:14-26
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Some people believe that James and Paul were disagreeing. But they are talking about two different things....Paul was saying you are not justified by the works of the Law....James was saying that faith is dead without Good Deeds on to others.
Works of the Law and Good Deed for others are not the same thing. Works of the Law do not pertain to Christians....Jewish religion. On the other side of the coin there are dozens of scriptures about Good Deeds....but then we would get into the word study in that they would be better translated as good deeds rather than good works to avoid all the confusion...because the Greek word in the scriptures can be translated either way.
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Dropship
Well-Known Member
Ah, but how do we KNOW if we're christians or not?
We can label ourselves christians but surely only God know if we truly are?
I like to think I'm a christian but for all I know I might be going up the spout with a lot of other "christians" on judgement day-
Jesus said:-"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matthew 7:21-23)
Acts 8:12 has always served to satisfy me that I am.
I wonder if members of other religions ever ask themselves if they know - and if so, how - they are members of whatever religion that they associate themselves with.
If we are saved there is no failure--only continued learning from the "conforming" (Heb 12:6). We often fail is service, but it's the attempts to service that counts!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
TRUTH be TOLD , JESUS IS LORD and the only NAME whereby one may be saved .
SO TRUTH BE TOLD , BELIEVE YE IN HIM . cause nutting else is gonna save ya .
IF we deny HIM , HE DENIES US .
CLING TO THE GLORIOUS LORD JESUS CHRIST . AND , AND , TRUTH BE TOLD
you better make sure you are following the biblical CHRIST , HIS Reminders and the reminders of the apostels and that gospel
CAUSE any other go spell , any other jesus , IT AINT GONNA SAVE YA .
SO TRUTH BE TOLD , BELIEVE YE IN HIM . cause nutting else is gonna save ya .
IF we deny HIM , HE DENIES US .
CLING TO THE GLORIOUS LORD JESUS CHRIST . AND , AND , TRUTH BE TOLD
you better make sure you are following the biblical CHRIST , HIS Reminders and the reminders of the apostels and that gospel
CAUSE any other go spell , any other jesus , IT AINT GONNA SAVE YA .
Dropship
Well-Known Member
But if somebody is convinced they're a christian and OSAS forever, can they think "Haha I'm okay, satan can't touch me now", or do they still need to heed these verses?-
"Put on the full armour of God against the wiles of the devil" (Ephesians 6:11-18)
"The devil prowls round like a roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8 )
"Don't give the devil a foothold" (Ephesians 4:27)
"Resist the devil and he'll flee from you" (James 4:7)
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