Forgiveness can only be for Past Sinning.

[robert derrick]

For the record:

I do not believe in sinless perfection....not in the word.Scripture says that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive, therefore we have an advocate in Jesus.

I do not believe in OSAS. The word plainly states if we let sin overtake us bc of our own lust when it is finished it is death.

I do not follow the rituals and sacraments of man as a means to my salvation.Jesus purchased me with his own suffering & death.

I do not follow mans interpretations, but allow the HS to reveal the word to me as I study. DO NOT HAVE A LABEL
, EXCEPT BELIEVER & FOLLOWER OF GOD

I am not a member of any organized corporation who owns a building. Jesus is the head of his body; his body is the church of believers.

I believe the dead are without any ability that was of living until the second coming of Christ. This is when ONLY THE FAITHFUL will be resurrected for the marriage supper.

I believe the word of God ,the bible is our ONLY authority on what God says. There are no other men, words,books,commentaries,preachings,teachings, or commands that are not correctly stated in his word. It is HS inspired, written by holy men of God.

I do not believe in presdestination, as God selecting some to heaven ,some to hell. The word says WHOSEVER WILL, LET HIM COME!

I am not Catic, Mormon, JW, Calvinist, Arminism, Baptist,Methodist, Anglican,Jesus Only, King James Only, or any other denomination. I was Church of God, Pentecostal. I am only a child of God ,now.

I do not hold to any creed or doctrine of man. My faith is in what God states plainly in the word and it is our standard of living Holy, Sanctified lives submitted & committed to him !

I belie in God the Father, God the Son; Jesus and God the Holy Ghost. These three bear record in heaven and earth. One God, three manifestations of his attributes, character and abilities!

I am not questioning your faith nor your life at all. I see by your other posts, that you are not a hypocrite, nor do you teach it.

I was only seeking to relieve you of some unnecessary burdens of some perfectionism that you apparently hold to.

But, I won't force any liberty of conscience upon you, no more than I try to force conviction upon willful sinners.

Everything I said was perfectly true according to Scripture. Throwing it out as hogwash doesn't correct anything, and so I just move on with what I have. It neither offends no matters to me in the least.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I am not questioning your faith nor your life at all. I see by your other posts, that you are not a hypocrite, nor do you teach it.

I was only seeking to relieve you of some unnecessary burdens of some perfectionism that you apparently hold to.

But, I won't force any liberty of conscience upon you, no more than I try to force conviction upon willful sinners.

Everything I said was perfectly true according to Scripture. Throwing it out as hogwash doesn't correct anything, and so I just move on with what I have. It neither offends no matters to me in the least.

Thank you for your concerns and your graciousness,Robert.

However, I dont see myself having perfectionist ideations.

I fail God, ask forgiveness and continue my daily walk through prayer and study.

We were not created perfect nor do I expect we can acheive it here,otherwise there might be a big form of translations going on.

Maybe you have me mixed up with another. I pray my post dont come across as a sinless perfection believer nothing could be further from my thoughts.

 

[robert derrick]

I pray my post dont come across as a sinless perfection believer nothing could be further from my thoughts.

Good, since Jesus wasn't a sinless perfection Jew either: sinless yes, perfectionist no.

So long as we are in our flesh, our renewed minds will still have to endure any unrighteous thought of temptation and cast it down, even as Jesus did all the days of His life.

I no longer ask God to forgive me for any fiery darts of the devil.

Now if I take any of them to heart to do them? That is much different. I do ask God forgiveness for letting down my guard on my heart.

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I am sorry but I dont think I have ever called a post hogwash.......

I do however call BALDERDASH when I feel the word is used incorrectly and out of context.

I am sorry for any offense I have caused you or anyone else.

My attempts to correct teachings and doctrines are clumsy at best but God forbid I offend.
'O wretched sister that I am !

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Good, since Jesus wasn't a sinless perfection Jew either: sinless yes, perfectionist no.

So long as we are in our flesh, our renewed minds will still have to endure any unrighteous thought of temptation and cast it down, even as Jesus did all the days of His life.

I no longer ask God to forgive me for any fiery darts of the devil.

Now if I take any of them to heart to do them? That is much different. I do ask God forgiveness for letting down my guard on my heart.

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

See, sorry but this is in error.

Jesus was born a Jew of the line of Abraham to fulfill a promise God made. However He IS, WAS AND WILL EVER BE SINLESSLY PERFECT.

He is the Lamb without spot nor blemish. The only perfect sacrifice for the sins of fallen man. He IS, WAS and will ever BE .......THE LAMB THAT AGREED TO BE THE VERY PERFECT SACRIFICE! Through this, man need NOT sacrifice animals for their blood ONLY to put OFF sins for another year.

Until death or glorification we will strive against sinning in the flesh.
We press IN and TOWARD the MARK of the high calling of Christ !
This race will only be FINISHED AT THE END. Jesus assured us that getting to the end by enduring all that would come our way, then are we saved !

 

[robert derrick]

See, sorry but this is in error.

Jesus was born a Jew of the line of Abraham to fulfill a promise God made. However He IS, WAS AND WILL EVER BE SINLESSLY PERFECT.

He is the Lamb without spot nor blemish. The only perfect sacrifice for the sins of fallen man. He IS, WAS and will ever BE .......THE LAMB THAT AGREED TO BE THE VERY PERFECT SACRIFICE! Through this, man need NOT sacrifice animals for their blood ONLY to put OFF sins for another year.

Until death or glorification we will strive against sinning in the flesh.
We press IN and TOWARD the MARK of the high calling of Christ !
This race will only be FINISHED AT THE END. Jesus assured us that getting to the end by enduring all that would come our way, then are we saved !

I'm sorry, I haven't clarified something: We are not speaking of the same kind of being perfect: I am speaking of the perfectionism of God on the throne, which no man ever has on earth, including Jesus, and you are speaking of being made perfect in purity of heart and sinlessness in life, which Jesus was first.

Being wholly and spiritually pure and blameless in life, is the example Jesus Christ first set on earth, and is the promise of His salvation and justification for His body today:

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

However, the perfectionism of God on the throne is not for any man in the flesh, whether the first Adam or the second Christ: Such 'perfectionism' teaches that any unrighteous, unkind, inglorious, 'unloving' thought is sinning, so that all men are therefore judged imperfect sinners from the cradle to the grave. That kind of perfectionism condemns Jesus as well:

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Such thoughts appearing in the mind are indeed proof of imperfectionism, but not of sinning, Because such 'imperfect thoughts' are only temptation of the devil's fiery darts in this life.

The perfectionism of God on the throne is different from Christ being made perfect in the flesh, which says:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

Jesus the man was God in the flesh, but was not God on the throne, because He was tempted just alike any other man on in the flesh.

Jesus Christ now is God and perfected man on the throne:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

See, sorry but this is in error.

Jesus was born a Jew of the line of Abraham to fulfill a promise God made. However He IS, WAS AND WILL EVER BE SINLESSLY PERFECT.

He is the Lamb without spot nor blemish. The only perfect sacrifice for the sins of fallen man. He IS, WAS and will ever BE .......THE LAMB THAT AGREED TO BE THE VERY PERFECT SACRIFICE! Through this, man need NOT sacrifice animals for their blood ONLY to put OFF sins for another year.

Until death or glorification we will strive against sinning in the flesh.
We press IN and TOWARD the MARK of the high calling of Christ !
This race will only be FINISHED AT THE END. Jesus assured us that getting to the end by enduring all that would come our way, then are we saved !

Not until the resurrection of the body is the mind and spirit of any man perfected as God on the throne, which included Jesus, and will include His whole body in the first resurrection for the blessed.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

And so, we see the difference between man being wholly perfect in singleness of heart and life with God, of whom Jesus was first, vs man being perfected in spirit and mind with the resurrection, of whom Jesus is first:

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all,

and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.

Both Jesus and His flesh and bones today have perfect hearts toward God, not living in sin, but neither Jesus in the days of His flesh, nor His body today is perfected, so that we cannot be tempted at all as God on the throne.

Jesus was made perfect by obedience through the fear of the Lord in this life, but was not perfected until His resurrection from the cross:

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

And so we also are called to His same glory and virtue of obedience to go on to perfection, but not to perfectionism, until we are also resurrected in His likeness:

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Only when resurrected shall we see Him as He is resurrected: perfected perfectionism of God and man on the throne.

 

[robert derrick]

See, sorry but this is in error.

Jesus was born a Jew of the line of Abraham to fulfill a promise God made. However He IS, WAS AND WILL EVER BE SINLESSLY PERFECT.

He is the Lamb without spot nor blemish. The only perfect sacrifice for the sins of fallen man. He IS, WAS and will ever BE .......THE LAMB THAT AGREED TO BE THE VERY PERFECT SACRIFICE! Through this, man need NOT sacrifice animals for their blood ONLY to put OFF sins for another year.

Until death or glorification we will strive against sinning in the flesh.
We press IN and TOWARD the MARK of the high calling of Christ !
This race will only be FINISHED AT THE END. Jesus assured us that getting to the end by enduring all that would come our way, then are we saved !

'Sinless perfectionism', 'perfectly sinless', and 'sinlessly perfect' are deceiving terms used to make all men believe they will remain imperfect sinners for life, whether being saved or not.

No Scripture speaks of 'sinlessly perfect' pertaining to any man on earth, whether Adam or Jesus: they are foils used for excuse continued sinning with the devil, as being the natural state of all men on earth, and they are also used to declare being pure in heart with blameless living as impossible on earth, except 'of course' for Jesus, who WAS AND WILL EVER BE SINLESSLY PERFECT.

I am not saying you use this false teaching for the purpose of hypocrisy, as the hypocrites that trust in it as the truth, but only that you and I have held to that lie, that we learned by tradition of men and false christian theologians.

It is no shame to need our renewed minds to be cleansed of all such false traditions of men, by the Spirit of truth in reading of Scripture, that we may increase in grace and knowledge of Christ. In this regard, Jesus was the only man that never swallowed them whole, when He heard them from a youth upward, even if His own dear parents or an honorable rabbi of the local synagogue, tried to teach some to Him.

The point is simple: Having continued 'unloving' and even malicious thoughts appear in our renewed minds, does show we are not yet perfected, but neither does it prove we are still sinning with the devil.

Such 'perfectionism' teaching is a deceitful lie of the devil to justify sinning with him as Christians, because we are all 'imperfect sinners'.

Imperfect in mind, yes, sinners with the flesh, no.

 

[Behold]

'

No Scripture speaks of 'sinlessly perfect' pertaining to any man on earth,

You're not really a student of Paul.
If you were then you'd note that Paul teaches 3 things, among others, but regarding discipleship....

1. You are to become "the fullness of the Stature of Christ", while you are on this earth.

2. Paul teaches "as many as BE Perfect'....... and that is related to understanding who you have become "in Christ" so that you can exist HERE :

= 3. Paul teaches.>"CHRIST, always gives me the VICTORY".....so that is not, a sinning and confessing deceived "christian", who has no idea what it means to be born again, or to have worked out your salvation..

So, when someone tries to keep you chained to the deception that you can't become "perfected", as the "fullness of the Stature of Christ", always having "Victory"...= REALIZE that you are listening to a heretic who is trying to deceive you OUT of the real discipleship that is found by existing as a "new creation in Christ".... having become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

It amazes me how people dare to corrupt the gospel right before God's eyes.
As if they are certain he doesn't see a thing.

 

[Behold]

It amazes me how people dare to corrupt the gospel right before God's eyes.
As if they are certain he doesn't see a thing.

JUDE : teaches that deceivers (Pharisees) came into the local assemblies.. and fought AGAINST the idea of God's Grace as a Gift, and as Eternal Security "in Christ'.
They created this Satanic Deception, this TEACHING....whereby they TEACH= that to teach God's Grace as "the Gift of Salvation" that establishes you as "the righteousness OF GOD" having eternal security, that Jesus who is GOD taught as : "shall never Perish"....."(all that believe in me, i give unto them Eternal Life, and they shall NEVER PERISH"...
What these Pharisees (heretics) did was TWIST and SUBVERT that true Gospel of the GRACE of GOD... into..>"they are teaching License to sin".

JUDE teaches that they twisted and subverted Paul's Gospel of the Grace of God, into "THAT IS REALLY LICENTIOUSNESS".. "License to sin".
And today, these DECEIVED people infect forums, pulpits, and Christian Schools, and all they do is the SAME, ... they teach that God's Grace, when taught as GRACE, is...>"license to sin".
THEY ARE PERVERTERS of the True Gospel. They Subvert real faith in believers as their MINISTRY.
They are Anti-Cross and Anti-Grace.
They are the Devil's finest workers, because they pretend to be "ministers of righteousness", .....

2 Corinthians 11:15

 

[robert derrick]

You're not really a student of Paul.
If you were then you'd note that Paul teaches 3 things, among others, but regarding discipleship....

1. You are to become "the fullness of the Stature of Christ", while you are on this earth.

2. Paul teaches "as many as BE Perfect'....... and that is related to understanding who you have become "in Christ" so that you can exist HERE :

= 3. Paul teaches.>"CHRIST, always gives me the VICTORY".....so that is not, a sinning and confessing deceived "christian", who has no idea what it means to be born again, or to have worked out your salvation..

So, when someone tries to keep you chained to the deception that you can't become "perfected", as the "fullness of the Stature of Christ", always having "Victory"...= REALIZE that you are listening to a heretic who is trying to deceive you OUT of the real discipleship that is found by existing as a "new creation in Christ".... having become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

True.

As I point out, the terms sinlessly perfect, and perfectly sinless, etc... are foils used by hypocrites to remain 'imperfect' sinners for life.

We are not yet perfected saints by divine power of God. We are not imperfect sinners by grace.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

'Sinless perfectionism', 'perfectly sinless', and 'sinlessly perfect' are deceiving terms used to make all men believe they will remain imperfect sinners for life, whether being saved or not.

No Scripture speaks of 'sinlessly perfect' pertaining to any man on earth, whether Adam or Jesus: they are foils used for excuse continued sinning with the devil, as being the natural state of all men on earth, and they are also used to declare being pure in heart with blameless living as impossible on earth, except 'of course' for Jesus, who WAS AND WILL EVER BE SINLESSLY PERFECT.

I am not saying you use this false teaching for the purpose of hypocrisy, as the hypocrites that trust in it as the truth, but only that you and I have held to that lie, that we learned by tradition of men and false christian theologians.

It is no shame to need our renewed minds to be cleansed of all such false traditions of men, by the Spirit of truth in reading of Scripture, that we may increase in grace and knowledge of Christ. In this regard, Jesus was the only man that never swallowed them whole, when He heard them from a youth upward, even if His own dear parents or an honorable rabbi of the local synagogue, tried to teach some to Him.

The point is simple: Having continued 'unloving' and even malicious thoughts appear in our renewed minds, does show we are not yet perfected, but neither does it prove we are still sinning with the devil.

Such 'perfectionism' teaching is a deceitful lie of the devil to justify sinning with him as Christians, because we are all 'imperfect sinners'.

Imperfect in mind, yes, sinners with the flesh, no.

ONCE MORE; I DO NOT; DO NOT BELIEVE IN SINLESS
PERFECTION !

Do you just have an urge to reply to posters bc YOU SURE DONT LISTEN TO REPLIES !

When I sin as a believer and in all honesty, those that say they never sin are liars,, I repent and receive forgiveness every time bc I am blood bought.

It is NOT a shame to confess & repent for we havent reached the end yet. Nor is it a shame to confess your faults to one another.

My mind is renewed daily in prayer by the Holy Spirit, and everytime I study and receive his word.

 

[robert derrick]

JUDE : teaches that deceivers (Pharisees) came into the local assemblies.. and fought AGAINST the idea of God's Grace as a Gift, and as Eternal Security "in Christ'.
They created this Satanic Deception, this TEACHING....whereby they TEACH= that to teach God's Grace as "the Gift of Salvation" that establishes you as "the righteousness OF GOD" having eternal security, that Jesus who is GOD taught as : "shall never Perish"....."(all that believe in me, i give unto them Eternal Life, and they shall NEVER PERISH"...
What these Pharisees (heretics) did was TWIST and SUBVERT that true Gospel of the GRACE of GOD... into..>"they are teaching License to sin".

JUDE teaches that they twisted and subverted Paul's Gospel of the Grace of God, into "THAT IS REALLY LICENTIOUSNESS".. "License to sin".
And today, these DECEIVED people infect forums, pulpits, and Christian Schools, and all they do is the SAME, ... they teach that God's Grace, when taught as GRACE, is...>"license to sin".
THEY ARE PERVERTERS of the True Gospel. They Subvert real faith in believers as their MINISTRY.
They are Anti-Cross and Anti-Grace.
They are the Devil's finest workers, because they pretend to be "ministers of righteousness", .....

2 Corinthians 11:15

I like your teaching on making difference between trying not to sin through will power and not sinning through grace, by resting through faith in the divine power of Christ within us.

Many professionals in life teach the same kind of thing: stop trying to do something, and just do it.

It may not come out perfect, but at least it will get done, which is good enough.

Perfectionism is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, neither was Jesus a perfectionist.

And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.

No doubt some found fault with spitting to make clay in order to make the blind to see.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@robert derrick ,
Please stop engaging me for YOU cannot keep on topic.

Are you young and immature,or is it YOU JUST HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING AND BE HEARD.

Talk to others for we are done !

 

[Behold]

I
Perfectionism is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, neither was Jesus a perfectionist.

Perfectionism, is a self effort.
Its no different than the false teaching of "enduring to the end", to try to claw your way into heaven by Works . (SELF EFFORT).

All of THAT, is works based Cross rejection. ITs LEGALISM.

So, Paul teaches that we are to become : "the fullness of the Stature of Christ"., and that we can become "as many as be perfect".

This is not trying to be good, or trying to be like Christ., as that is just more SELF EFFORT FAILURE.

Hell is filled with religious people who would say..>But i tried to be good and be like Jesus all my Life.
= Christ says to them...."Depart from me i never Knew you"....and that is why they are in hell.
They tried to be good, and that is not how you go to heaven.
You Go to Heaven by this.....>Jesus Said...>"You must be BORN AGAIN"< as that is God giving you His Righteousness and re-creating you to be a "new Creation in Christ".
This is why Paul tells us that what only matters is the "new Creation", and all this other SELF EFFORT, is "DUNG"....as God does not accept anything we do, to accept us.
He accepts us based on what God as Christ on The Cross has PROVIDED, and that is the Blood Atonement.

Paul is teaching to become YIELDED, .. no longer trying to WORK or PERFORM, for God.
To be YIELDED to the understanding of God making you righteous based on "the GIFT of Righteousness", as the only reason you become a SON/Daughter of God.
The power found there to live the holy life is as Paul teaches : Christ lives in me, it is not I who live"...
As that MIND and REAL FAITH>....is the Power of Christ, found.
That is how you stop being the sinning and confessing ..>"apart from me you can do NOTHING"< which is Christ explaining that when you try to be a Christian by performance, you are shutting off His Living Through you that IS ..."Christ always gives me the VICTORY"... over the flesh, the world, and the devil.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Perfectionism, is a self effort.

“Be perfect… and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

Its no different then the false teaching of "enduring to the end"

“…he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

All of THAT, is works based Cross rejection. ITs LEGALISM.

“Having your manner of life honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evil-doers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.” (1 Peter 2:12)

Paul teaches that we are to become : "the fullness of the Stature of Christ"

Paul also taught:

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21)

 

[Behold]

“

“…he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

Paul also taught:

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21)

You are not saved by enduring anything.
You are saved by God, based on the Sacrifice of Jesus for your sin.
Why dont you know this, or understand this, Michiah-Imla?

Also, your 2nd verse is talking about the "natural Branches",
The verse is talking about the JEWS, who are the "natural branches"... so you are to take HEED< and make certain of your Salvation, regarding the GENTILES in the "time of the Gentiles'".
That you are not building your hope on WORKS like ENDURING THE END, and instead have real faith that God has saved you and God is FAITHFUL to complete your Salvation.. based on the blood and death of JESUS THE CHRIST.

Philippians 1:6

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You are not saved by enduring anything.

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

Get thee behind me…

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Anti-gospel holy spirit blasphemers.
They don't believe in God and his presence as Christ, stupidly blaspheming him as a mere man. But they shall.

God will quiet their blasphemy of his grace teaching,and eternal irrevocable salvation gift.
For eternity.

JUDE : teaches that deceivers (Pharisees) came into the local assemblies.. and fought AGAINST the idea of God's Grace as a Gift, and as Eternal Security "in Christ'.
They created this Satanic Deception, this TEACHING....whereby they TEACH= that to teach God's Grace as "the Gift of Salvation" that establishes you as "the righteousness OF GOD" having eternal security, that Jesus who is GOD taught as : "shall never Perish"....."(all that believe in me, i give unto them Eternal Life, and they shall NEVER PERISH"...
What these Pharisees (heretics) did was TWIST and SUBVERT that true Gospel of the GRACE of GOD... into..>"they are teaching License to sin".

JUDE teaches that they twisted and subverted Paul's Gospel of the Grace of God, into "THAT IS REALLY LICENTIOUSNESS".. "License to sin".
And today, these DECEIVED people infect forums, pulpits, and Christian Schools, and all they do is the SAME, ... they teach that God's Grace, when taught as GRACE, is...>"license to sin".
THEY ARE PERVERTERS of the True Gospel. They Subvert real faith in believers as their MINISTRY.
They are Anti-Cross and Anti-Grace.
They are the Devil's finest workers, because they pretend to be "ministers of righteousness", .....

2 Corinthians 11:15