The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Bible Highlighter]

I know you mentioned this before but Im interested on how you answer people who believe this.

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly the OSAS argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, they would have to believe that they are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

The Protestant Belief Alone Salvationist can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

1 John 1:8 says,

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”​

And here is my commentary in brackets to the verse.

1 John 1:8

“If we say that we have no sin [if we do sin], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

 

[marks]

Do you believe that if a born again Christian who primarily lives for the Lord most of their life, and yet when they went prodigal for 2-3 years in their life (like saying getting drunk and sleeping around with different women) that they are saved during this time?

Do you see how subjective and individual these things are?

Either you come right out and say it, "If you sin, you are not born again, you do not have eternal life". And then you have to start definining what is sin, because at the end of the day, our thoughts, feelings, behaviors arise from the flesh and are fleshy, or from the Spirit, and are spiritual. What is of the flesh is flesh, not Spirit.

What about the poor sap who slept with one woman not his wife while married to his wife? Was he saved that night? And does this include the guy who would have but didn't because he was afraid of getting caught? And the guy who wished he could have that lady on the bus this morning, oh well!? Do you include those?

And forget about sex, what about the guy who steals from his boss, once? 20 times? Or would have . . . if he wasn't afraid of getting caught . . . or . . .

Because in every case you have start drawing lines around other people, lines that fitly belong on about everybody, to some degree, I think! Some are more mature than others. And that's where I see the difference. Let us walk to in the level to which we have attained.

And here's your Pop Quiz, wouldn't want you to feel left out!

:)

Do you believe God chastens His sons, and that His chastening is effective, producing the peaceable fruits of righteousness? Yes / No

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I know you mentioned this before but Im interested on how you answer people who believe this.

I fellow brother of mine in Canada believes 1 John 1:8 is referring to the sin nature and not us actually sinning. He believes that if we say we have no sin [i.e. sin nature], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But that does not mean we cannot crucify the sin nature (i.e. the affections and lusts). However, I am not privy to this interpretation, though. The context is referring to actual sinning and how to deal with that sin properly. 1 John 1:8 is a denial of sin’s existence [if it crops up in our life] vs. confessing of that sin - 1 John 1:9, and in forsaking that sin by walking in the light / loving the brethren - 1 John 1:7 (Which is the proper way to deal with sin).

 

[marks]

Pop quiz #1.

Do you believe that 1 John 1:8 is saying that believers will always sin this side of Heaven in some way or on some small level?

What you are doing is inviting pitting Scripture against Scripture.

The real question here is, do I, and do you, believe this is true?

1 John 1:6-10 KJV
6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I do, all of it. And we should understand it in harmony with all related passages. I find when you simply collect them all together, and believe them all, the answers seem rather apparent. They all same the same thing. In this case, Romans 6 and 7 are very relevant. Colossians 3 speaks to this, so does Ephesians 4.

Will we always commit sins this side of heaven? I don't see this passage saying that, no.

And likewise, I believe this passage also,

Hebrews 12:6-11 KJV
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

I believe this also, just as stated.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you see how subjective and individual these things are?

Either you come right out and say it, "If you sin, you are not born again, you do not have eternal life".

Well, being born again is a past event that happens when we first accept Jesus Christ as our Savior.
But just because somebody has been born into this world does not mean that they cannot die.
In this case, if one sins the type of sins that the Bible attaches with warnings of hellfire and condemnation, they are killed spiritually by that sin (and they are on their way to hell) unless they confess and forsake that sin.

And then you have to start definining what is sin, because at the end of the day, our thoughts, feelings, behaviors arise from the flesh and are fleshy, or from the Spirit, and are spiritual. What is of the flesh is flesh, not Spirit.

No. I didn’t write the Bible. God did. God warns us that certain sins can destroy our souls (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 5:8, Revelation 21:8).

What about the poor sap who slept with one woman not his wife while married to his wife? Was he saved that night?

No, he wasn’t.

And does this include the guy who would have but didn't because he was afraid of getting caught? And the guy who wished he could have that lady on the bus this morning, oh well!? Do you include those?

And forget about sex, what about the guy who steals from his boss, once? 20 times? Or would have . . . if he wasn't afraid of getting caught . . . or . . .

In all these cases, they are not saved. Do you not read these kinds of warnings in the Bible? Do you just ignore them?
Believers can be restored, but they have to confess and forsake their sins (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7) (Proverbs 28:13).

Because in every case you have start drawing lines around other people, lines that fitly belong on about everybody, to some degree, I think! Some are more mature than others. And that's where I see the difference. Let us walk to in the level to which we have attained.

Philippians 3:16 is not a case that believers can sin and still be saved.

And here's your Pop Quiz, wouldn't want you to feel left out!

:)

Do you believe God chastens His sons, and that His chastening is effective, producing the peaceable fruits of righteousness? Yes / No

Much love!

Again, chastening only applies to those who accept what God’s Word says in regards to sin and salvation. The person who thinks they can sin and still be saved on some level has no real motivation to stop their sins in this life. They believe that certain believers who sin really bad can get to Heaven early (like if they commit suicide, etcetera).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What you are doing is inviting pitting Scripture against Scripture.

The real question here is, do I, and do you, believe this is true?

1 John 1:6-10 KJV
6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I do, all of it. And we should understand it in harmony with all related passages. I find when you simply collect them all together, and believe them all, the answers seem rather apparent. They all same the same thing. In this case, Romans 6 and 7 are very relevant. Colossians 3 speaks to this, so does Ephesians 4.

Will we always commit sins this side of heaven? I don't see this passage saying that, no.

And likewise, I believe this passage also,

Hebrews 12:6-11 KJV
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

I believe this also, just as stated.

Much love!

But you are not really explaining your viewpoint on what 1 John 1:8 means, though.

As for chastening: Chastening is not a magic cure all bullet for all believers because some have been hardened by the deceitfulness of sin and departed from the living God as Hebrews 3 warns us. Yes, chastening can happen, but don’t bank on chastening. Bank on the words of the Lord in Scripture that warns us against how sin can destroy our souls. You don’t appear to believe these kinds of warnings. With all the warnings given to me in the Bible, I would rather be overly cautious with my soul and not over confident that I am just good with God no matter what I do.

Side Note:

A couple of posts back you seemed upset about how you don't believe that believers don't justify sin. But is not your viewpoint of saying a believer sleeping around and yet you're implying that they are saved a concept of justifying sin? That's why I can never take seriously Belief Alone Salvationist camp. They don't hold to a consistent standard of morality.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Yes, many.
However, let me explain.

As its not the messenger, its the message that is revealed by the Holy Spirit that causes the hearer to SEE what they have seen before.
And when that happens, a change in their understanding happens.
This is how mental "strongholds" are torn down by REVELATION Knowledge.

Lets say you go to a church that is not theologically related to the Grace of God.
And they taught you to BELIEVE that you can lose your salvation.
So, one day you meet an anointed NT Teacher who shows you a message from the Bible and teaches you also, and the Holy Spirit reveals this to you as the "eyes of your enlightenment" being opened, and you SEE what you have never seen before.
And now,.. you only trust in Christ to get you to heaven, when previously you were trying to earn that, or work for that... and now that you have SEEN the LIGHT, you realize that its Christ alone who gets you there and keeps you saved for eternity.

The Teacher led You to read Philippians 1:6 , and it says that GOD HIMSELF Is Faithful to complete your SALVATiON..
And you "get this revelation", that you dont do it....>He does.....and now your "stronghold" that was put in you mind by a devil deceived person, is broken = and the LIGHT of Revelation is now in that place, instead.

I am really sorry you picked that as an example BECAUSE rightly dividing the word of God in context,comparing scripture with scripture, observing every IF, that is exactly what the word says. You must endure to the end keeping your hand on the plow looking forward to the promise rather than looking back to sin and the world.
Not losing salvation but rejecting and forfeiting it bc faith was shipwrecked .


I have got to get away from this site for a time !

 

[Wynona]

I am really sorry you picked that as an example BECAUSE rightly dividing the word of God in context,comparing scripture with scripture, observing every IF, that is exactly what the word says. You must endure to the end keeping your hand on the plow looking forward to the promise rather than looking back to sin and the world.
Not losing salvation but rejecting and forfeiting it bc faith was shipwrecked .


I have got to get away from this site for a time !

I would say, "Time for a snack!"

But I do hope you come back.

 

[amigo de christo]

I am really sorry you picked that as an example BECAUSE rightly dividing the word of God in context,comparing scripture with scripture, observing every IF, that is exactly what the word says. You must endure to the end keeping your hand on the plow looking forward to the promise rather than looking back to sin and the world.
Not losing salvation but rejecting and forfeiting it bc faith was shipwrecked .


I have got to get away from this site for a time !

Yes indeed . we take every word as truth including what follows those IFS . Yes indeed every word that was left to us
by Christ and those apostles we believe . From every promise to every warning to every reminder .

 

[amigo de christo]

Now put those hands up and let all that draweth breath praise and thank the Glorious Lord .

 

[Wynona]

I should make a satire news article:

Man takes a vow to do literally nothing to ensure avoiding works based salvation.

"Yeah, I just figure its all about grace and the finished work of the cross. So I quit my job and decided to sit in this empty apartment to show that its nothing we do and all about what Jesus has done for us."

"Don't you still need to eat and use the bathroom?"

"Unfortunately, I haven't perfected my rest in God's promise...but by God's grace, Im striving to do less and less every day. Maybe one day, who knows, Ill figure out a way to eat with zero self-effort."

"What about Jesus' command to love one another, make disciples, and feed the poor?"

"Optional."

"What do you say to critics who say you're sinning by being lazy?"

"Haven't they heard of grace? Sin isn't an issue anymore. Jesus paid it all."

"What about where it says, Go and sin no more?"

"A legalist probably said that."

"Jesus said that."

"...thats not the correct interpretation."

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Plz explain if you will by your statement," you don't have all that much in common with Jesus.

I “ do” have a few things in common with Jesus....

I love Sinners

Religious people hate me

I love to take naps on boats.....



Actually I do not think I measure up all that much to Jesus......that is because I am “Close” to Him, and Saved people, with Contrite Hearts , realize that the Closer That they get to God, the farther away they see themselves .....

That might require a “ Thinking Cap”.... Lol.....sometimes things are not like one would imagine them to be....Christianity is crazy like that.....

It’s akin to realizing that when you realize that ALL of your sins are Forgiven at the Cross and that you can never be damned for any Sin, because Jesus paid the price for them........Knowing you can Sin and NOT become Lost, becomes the Impetus * NOT* to Sin......Wild, isn’t it?

OOPS.....I ALMOST FORGOT TO LEAVE A FEW CAPITAaLIZED LETTERS BEHIND FOR MY BUDDY!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Belief Alone Salvationism is a general category of describing most Protestant’s view on salvation in that they believe they are saved solely by a belief alone in Jesus or the gospel message plus nothing else. Therefore, they would not also include any work of faith or holy living by the Spirit in addition to that (Which is a violation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, etcetera). This camp is filled with OSAS (Baptists, etc.) and Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Type Believers (i.e. Free Will Baptist churches). So this is why I sometimes refer between OSAS believers, and Belief Alone Salvationists (because when I referr to Belief Alone Salvationists, it generally covers the Non-OSAS sin and still be saved type believers).

OSAS means Once Saved Always Saved (Also known as Eternal Security, or Free Grace). There are two major branches of OSAS.

#1. Hyper Grace (I have talked with these folks both online and in person; They believe that a believer can be a murderer, rapist, drunkard, a fornicator, a thief, etcetera and still be saved).

#2. Partial Hyper Grace (They appear to be for holy living on the surface; And they will admit that a person who is living the life of a murderer, rapist, thief, etcetera and who declares to be a believer is not saved; But then they turn around and double speak and say they will always sin this side of Heaven based on a false interpretation of 1 John 1:8 (and they are evasive as to what sins they do on occasion). Granted, they have admitted to me that a believer can look upon a woman in lust right before they got hit by a bus, and then die without confessing that sin and yet, they are still saved - which would be a violation of Matthew 5:28-30). Some in this camp will even admit that a prodigal believer (who goes back into a backslidden lifestyle of sin like being a drunkard or in sleeping around with lots of people is still saved).

Then there is Calvinism (of which I did not mention) is another flavor of Protestantism. Many of them (maybe not all of them) see Belief as a work, and thus they see God as having to regenerate a believer prior to a person exercising faith or a belief in the Lord Jesus Christ involving their initial salvation. They believe God chooses based on no conditions (within the individual) those who are going to be saved. In Calvinism: God also chooses those who are going to be damned for His good pleasure and will. Free will in choosing God does not exist in the upside down Bizarro world of Calvinism. Thus, they over-emphasize God’s sovereignty to an imaginary point whereby it attacks His good character (Which is another level of wrong). Calvinists call their version of OSAS as Perseverance of the Saints.

Tsk....tsk.....how could you leave THIS ONE out ?


*SUPER* Hyper Grace.....THAT is “my” Gospel .....

....and as Luck would have it, it just happens to agree with Paul’s Gospel ( the one given to him personally by Jesus).....it goes like this—- “ Jesus actually DIED for my Sins” —-ALL of them....

That being true, there is NO SIN that I could ever commit that would ever damn me....God might decide to “ Chastise” me for a sin, but He won’t Send me to Hell for it...True “ Born- Again” Believers know that “ NEVER COMING UNDER CONDEMNATION “ because they put their Trust in Jesus Plus NOTHING —— knowing that they can NEVER be damned— sets the stage for LESS Sinning, NOT MORE! I suppose one just has to Live it....

Do you know what to do when you Sin, now that you are a “ New Creation” with a “ New Heart?”
Do the same thing with your Sins that God does—- PUT THEM ON THE CROSS!

Now “ THAT” is SUPER HYPER GRACE! Anybody with me? ( other than Bible Highliter”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I should make a satire news article:

Man takes a vow to do literally nothing to ensure avoiding works based salvation.

"Yeah, I just figure its all about grace and the finished work of the cross. So I quit my job and decided to sit in this empty apartment to show that its nothing we do and all about what Jesus has done for us."

"Don't you still need to eat and use the bathroom?"

"Unfortunately, I haven't perfected my rest in God's promise...but by God's grace, Im striving to do less and less every day. Maybe one day, who knows, Ill figure out a way to eat with zero self-effort."

"What about Jesus' command to love one another, make disciples, and feed the poor?"

"Optional."

"What do you say to critics who say you're sinning by being lazy?"

"Haven't they heard of grace? Sin isn't an issue anymore. Jesus paid it all."

"What about where it says, Go and sin no more?"

"A legalist probably said that."

"Jesus said that."

"...thats not the correct interpretation."

You have a talent for creative writing, sister.
Hopefully the satire (along with sharing Scripture) will be like a cold splash of water to at least wake up one or two of them to see the truth of God's Word. In the meantime, I believe we should pray in love for those who do believe this way. For...

“A prayer of a righteous person, when it is brought about, can accomplish much.” (James 5:16) (ESV).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes indeed . we take every word as truth including what follows those IFS . Yes indeed every word that was left to us
by Christ and those apostles we believe . From every promise to every warning to every reminder .

I am curious, my friend. What does IFS stand for?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

There is nowhere in the Bible that states that all Christians have to do to be saved is to believe in the finished work of the cross or to believe in Jesus alone for salvation and nothing else.




Once again.....it’s like “Shooting Fish in a Barrel”

Newbies, please ignore this Blind Guide—— you don’t want to fall into the same ditch that he is headed for.....

It’s actually not NEAR as complicated as he makes it out to be.......Do you wanna get Saved? Do You want to STAY saved? Try this——-just ASK!

“ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved , WILL BE SAVED” ( ROM 10:13)

The secret of Christianity is to see THE NEED to be Saved.....If you are blessed enough to undergo the Conviction Of Sin—— Seeing your True Wretched State before a Holy God ...if and when you see that you are Rotten to the Core and that you are heading for a well- deserved Hell like a speeding bullet! .......then, maybe then ,you will Turn to God ( True, saving Repentance) and put your Total Faith in the One that can Save you....Jesus Christ!

This “ Conviction Of Sin” can only happen by a visit from the Holy Spirit.....Methinks that several in here have never “had” that visit....Their Pride gives them away...They reject the Grace That could have Saved them because their Pride tells them that they don’t need it....They never saw, much less admitted to , their “ Wretchedness”.....They foolishly think that they have something to offer to God....the only thing that I ever “ offered” to God was my sins.....just the way He wanted it....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You would have to first presume I DO EVIL, in order to Stop doing evil.
I was not raised Catholic or under a Preacher hooting and hollering to be AFRAID of God.
From a young age I was taught ABOUT God, and can not remember being Afraid or not Believing.
Certainly through study, I’ve learned, Gods negative consequences is nothing I would hope for or look forward to.
I am very content with my one on one relationship with the Lord God.

Me too.....Once we are “Born Again”, we become “At Peace with God”....We are No Longer “The Enemies Of God”.....we have become His “ Friends” ......I’ll pitch my Tent there ....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.




So then we were saved 2,000 years ago?



Right, so then you place a condition upon being saved and we were not saved when Jesus died upon the cross 2,000 years ago.



We must be born again, but I don’t believe your version of being born again is biblical.
For you: There is no real change. You still view sin as if it does not lead to any kind of punishment for you.
You are still in unbelief in regards to Jesus’ warnings on sin in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etcetera.
You have not repented or sought forgiveness with God with a godly sorrow whereby you would truly forsake sin the correct way (in that it can destroy our souls). For you believe you can sin and still be saved on some level. To have this kind of understanding means you have not really been changed or born again spiritually (Unless you later fell for the Protestant deception or something being ignorant of what the Word really teaches).



Faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior, and in the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but faith does not remain as a belief alone as we see in Hebrews 11. By faith Noah built the Ark. So we can see that faith is something that does not remain as a belief alone. Faith also has the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). Works makes one’s faith perfect (James 2:22). That’s not possible unless faith and the work of faith were connected or had a symbiotic relationship. In fact, this is why James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17), and that we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

Zzzzzzzz..... oh! Sorry! Hogwash makes me sleepy.....

Wanna win $1000? Of course you do ! It’s all yours if you can take a KJV and show me where It says ANYWHERE that Salvation is obtained by Repenting from Sins....Allow me to Save you some time—- you wont Find it. ANywhere.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The person who thinks they can sin and still be saved on some level has no real motivation to stop their sins in this life.


At last your phony mask is off......you have revealed your Fatal Flaw.......You don't understand Christianity and you never have....
The “ REAL MOTIVATION” to Stop Sinning is your LOVE FOR GOD! God gave His Son for us and His Son Shed His Blood for us —- God did NOT have to do ANY of this and we sure did not Deserve it....if you are not “ MOTIVATED “ by these Truths, Go and Find yourself another “ Religion”.....You have quite obviously and quite simply “missed the boat” when it comes to Christianity.....it’s ALL about Love....and YOU don’t get it.....

It may have taken 50 barrels of extremely windy and wasted Computer Ink, but give some people enough rope and they will hang themselves....The old saying is True....”The TRUTH will out!” Thanks for finally showing your True Self...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You wrote that a Believer's sin is unforgiven, until they confess it. So, that is teaching they are lost again, and will be saved again.
This of course is someone's invented theology.
The correct understanding is that "Jesus became sin" for us all, 2000 yrs ago, and when we are born again we have become God's Righteousness.
This is our born again Spirit. It exists in God.

Also, you stated that Abraham offered Isaac. "by FAITH".
See that?
This means that Abraham had faith already, and by that faith, offered Issac.
God had accepted Abraham's FAITH, before the offering of Isaac was enlisted.
Works, follow faith, as we see in Abraham's case, they do not replace it, nor or they required for Abraham's Salvation.​

Pffttt.....wake up, Behold! “ Lucky Repentance” is the “ end- all and be- all” when it comes to Salvation...

It turns out that those whose Doctrine is that you can be Saved by Repenting Of all of your sins before you die are just like the OSAS crowd ! You can Sin all that you want and still get Heaven— One can rape and murder 1000 times and STILL get Saved! Just try to make sure you get the “ LUCK” to Repent Of all of your sins before you kick the bucket and you are good to go! Let’s all devote a portion of our prayer time to petition God for plenty Of Luck....” It is by *LUCK* that you are Saved, lest any man should boast”.....